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 Poster: A snowHead
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jimmer, Totally agree.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
foxtrotzulu wrote:
As an overtaker I will always give people masses of room, but I'd still be grateful they thought twice before putting in a sudden turn to the very edge of the piste.
Are you sure you're giving them enough room if you're relying on them, at the behest of a pole click, to not make a sudden turn to the edge of the piste?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar wrote:
foxtrotzulu wrote:
As an overtaker I will always give people masses of room, but I'd still be grateful they thought twice before putting in a sudden turn to the very edge of the piste.
Are you sure you're giving them enough room if you're relying on them, at the behest of a pole click, to not make a sudden turn to the edge of the piste?


Well on that basis, is there ever enough room to overtake on a cat track!?
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I'm aware of pole clicking but have never knowingly been clicked at. The issue here is that most new skiers (and quite a few seasoned skiers) don't know what the clicking means. Unless it was added to the 'Book of things to teach newbies' it would remain as insider knowledge - something hifalutin' skiers do. But back in the days when I was a beginner, fast skiers did surprise me when they went past. (Mainly because new skiers traverse a lot more so overtakers tend to come at a real angle.) I would always worry that another skier was coming after them at a similar speed. This kind of internal thought process used to be enough to make me wobble and sometimes fall over. It would be nice to be warned - but, as it happens, more and more slope users seem to be plugged into Ipods these days and would only mistake your pole warning or shouting as additional studio noise!

I vote that going wide and dropping down a gear - and making eye-contact/giving a smile and a 'HI!' as the best solution...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
You could even try a 'How YOU doin'!? and mix it up a little!
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not offended at all.

What I am supposed to do... maintain my line? or move to one side (which is what the natural urge is when hearing a bicycle bell) ?

Until that is a standard accepted practice, then I will just interpret it as pointless (in the case where there's space to pass safely), or impatient (in the case where there's not enough space to pass safely).

And if it's whoops! or shouting "coming thru" or "on your left, mate!", when there's barely enough space to get thru, then I will call them dangerous effing idiots that give skiers a bad name. Most of my encounters like that have been brits, or ESF instructors.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I occasionally click poles on cattracks only. I don't expect skiers in front of me to do anything, I just like them to know I'm there. When I'm the one being overtaken, I much prefer some sort of warning. Just seems like common sense and courtesy to me.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Agree with rob@rar - Personally never felt the need to bother anyone with less confidence/experience by clicking my poles. Just hold back and wait until it is safe to pass without intimidating them according to the FIS rules which are just about commonsense and respect and consideration for other people. .Meanwhile enjoy the view and maybe practice some short turns. Never found that the bar has been closed at the bottom for the sake of arriving a little later. A little patience is one of the keys and joys of skiing.
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Absolutely staggering arrogance. You may feel you are doing a service to the person you're thinking of passing but, as mentioned it is NOT taught by anyone, anywhere, so your interpretation or expectation is NOT going to be recognised. Nor should it IMV.

You wait until you can pass safely without the need to resorting to clicking you poles at people in your impatience and lack of consideration. Jeez, breath-taking attitude rolling eyes
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jimmer wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
foxtrotzulu wrote:
As an overtaker I will always give people masses of room, but I'd still be grateful they thought twice before putting in a sudden turn to the very edge of the piste.
Are you sure you're giving them enough room if you're relying on them, at the behest of a pole click, to not make a sudden turn to the edge of the piste?


Well on that basis, is there ever enough room to overtake on a cat track!?
I seem to manage it easily (without the need to click poles), and I'm pretty sure you do as well. It's just about timing, managing your speed and skiing courteously.
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ajrduff wrote:
...I just like them to know I'm there.
What do you want them to do with that information? Hold their line? Slow down, speed up? Move to one side or another?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
While I agree that you should be able to stop or turn if an intended overtake goes sour, I find that is a little idealistic.

Sometimes when wondering down a track, maybe going a little faster than the person in front that person decide to pull up and cuts off your overtake just as you are on their shoulder. There isn't a lot you can do, other than bury your tips in the bank.

Maybe it because I tend to overtake at the edge of the piste, trying to stay out of people's way, but sometimes no matter how much room you give they just keep coming.

I don't click poles but is that any worse than the noise of someone pulling up sharp behind you?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar wrote:
ajrduff wrote:
...I just like them to know I'm there.
What do you want them to do with that information? Hold their line? Slow down, speed up? Move to one side or another?


Whatever gets them through the day. If it was me I'd try not to make any sudden diversions until they were past. I guess in the worst case I could click my poles and they'd freak out and fall over/ski over the edge of a precipice etc. But I've never seen that happen. What I have seen is people spooked by faster skiers appearing beside them without warning. It's happened to me. So, on occasion, I click my poles. No big deal, and I think 'breathtaking arrogance' is stretching things just a trifle.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ajrduff wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
ajrduff wrote:
...I just like them to know I'm there.
What do you want them to do with that information? Hold their line? Slow down, speed up? Move to one side or another?


Whatever gets them through the day. If it was me I'd try not to make any sudden diversions until they were past. I guess in the worst case I could click my poles and they'd freak out and fall over/ski over the edge of a precipice etc. But I've never seen that happen. What I have seen is people spooked by faster skiers appearing beside them without warning. It's happened to me. So, on occasion, I click my poles. No big deal, and I think 'breathtaking arrogance' is stretching things just a trifle.


It sounds to me that you'd like them to do something with that information, even if it's only holding their line and not making any sudden changes of direction. That's where I have a problem: the skier in front has priority, but you're travelling faster so make a noise to indicate that they should do something (no matter how innocuous). It's like approaching a wide zebra crossing which has pedestrians on it and giving a friendly little toot on the car horn to let them know you're going to drive through, although there's no need to worry because you'll give them plenty of space. It's ignoring the point that they have priority.

I've never said "breathtaking arrogance". I think it's unnecessary and sometimes a little discourteous, but not really a big deal.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Chasseur wrote:
Absolutely staggering arrogance. You may feel you are doing a service to the person you're thinking of passing but, as mentioned it is NOT taught by anyone, anywhere, so your interpretation or expectation is NOT going to be recognised. Nor should it IMV.

You wait until you can pass safely without the need to resorting to clicking you poles at people in your impatience and lack of consideration. Jeez, breath-taking attitude rolling eyes


Does it really need to be taught!? If you hear a sound approaching behind you, you know not to turn towards that sound. I'd say your attitude was more breathtaking really, how can you get so worked up about a little pole clicking? You must lose your mind if someone toots you with a horn whilst driving!

It's not like I blast around recklessly, I just don't like losing all my speed if there is a very flat section approaching, and snowboarders on their heels can't see anything behind them.
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jimmer wrote:
If you hear a sound approaching behind you, you know not to turn towards that sound.
I'd say it is instinctive to focus in that sound, even if you don't turn around to see what is going on you are going to have at least some of your attention behind you rather than in front of you.
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I guess it comes down to your own experience and what you prefer. If I'm on a track, I like to know if there are others behind me. I've had plenty of skiers click their poles behind me, thought that was a sensible idea in some situations, and started doing it myself on occasion. I certainly never thought of it as discourteous - quite the opposite, in fact.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar wrote:
jimmer wrote:
If you hear a sound approaching behind you, you know not to turn towards that sound.
I'd say it is instinctive to focus in that sound, even if you don't turn around to see what is going on you are going to have at least some of your attention behind you rather than in front of you.


Absolutely.

And if that action then results in someone who may just have no idea (and I rather imagine a fairly large majority of skiers may have no idea) what your clicking means and they then fall, who is responsible? Again, it is not taught by anyone, anywhere, so the interpretation can only be open to misunderstanding and potential accident.

By the way, in your "skier code" for passing others, what should a boarder make of it (they don't ski after all) and what should a boarder do if wanting to pass by you in this "the whole world understands it" point of view? Carry some spoons, perhaps? rolling eyes
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Chasseur wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
jimmer wrote:
If you hear a sound approaching behind you, you know not to turn towards that sound.
I'd say it is instinctive to focus in that sound, even if you don't turn around to see what is going on you are going to have at least some of your attention behind you rather than in front of you.


Absolutely.

And if that action then results in someone who may just have no idea (and I rather imagine a fairly large majority of skiers may have no idea) what your clicking means and they then fall, who is responsible? Again, it is not taught by anyone, anywhere, so the interpretation can only be open to misunderstanding and potential accident.

By the way, in your "skier code" for passing others, what should a boarder make of it (they don't ski after all) and what should a boarder do if wanting to pass by you in this "the whole world understands it" point of view? Carry some spoons, perhaps? rolling eyes


If someone falls over solely because I tapped my poles at them, they probably have no business skiing in the first place, it's not like I'm blasting an air horn in their ear, it's a polite tapping so they know someones behind them.

Tell you what, if you like, I'll teach all my students about it, and tell all the instructors that I train to teach their students about it, so eventually everyone knows and all the horrific pole tapping related injuries can stop..
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jimmer wrote:
Chasseur wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
jimmer wrote:
If you hear a sound approaching behind you, you know not to turn towards that sound.
I'd say it is instinctive to focus in that sound, even if you don't turn around to see what is going on you are going to have at least some of your attention behind you rather than in front of you.


Absolutely.

And if that action then results in someone who may just have no idea (and I rather imagine a fairly large majority of skiers may have no idea) what your clicking means and they then fall, who is responsible? Again, it is not taught by anyone, anywhere, so the interpretation can only be open to misunderstanding and potential accident.

By the way, in your "skier code" for passing others, what should a boarder make of it (they don't ski after all) and what should a boarder do if wanting to pass by you in this "the whole world understands it" point of view? Carry some spoons, perhaps? rolling eyes


If someone falls over solely because I tapped my poles at them, they probably have no business skiing in the first place, it's not like I'm blasting an air horn in their ear, it's a polite tapping so they know someones behind them.

Tell you what, if you like, I'll teach all my students about it, and tell all the instructors that I train to teach their students about it, so eventually everyone knows and all the horrific pole tapping related injuries can stop..


So clicking your poles with no idea about whether the person you're aiming that at has any idea how to react or interpret that "signal" is acceptable? And you're an instructor....?

Reverting to sarcasm to make a wholly irrelevant point in response to something that only could happen is quite illustrative, I think. Maybe you should declare your ski school/instructor business so people can make their own minds up...
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Chasseur wrote:

So clicking your poles with no idea about whether the person you're aiming that at has any idea how to react or interpret that "signal" is acceptable? And you're an instructor....?

Reverting to sarcasm to make a wholly irrelevant point in response to something that only could happen is quite illustrative, I think. Maybe you should declare your ski school/instructor business so people can make their own minds up...


Err, yeah, and you know what, it's always seemed to work and no-one's fallen over and I've never crashed into anyone, shocking!

Actually I was being facetious, because I think this discussion is a bit ridiculous. I won't post which schools I work for, as me mocking you is probably not the best marketing for them.
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Not a problem, as one of the schools I used and would (hope to) use again seems to be very much in the non-clicking camp Wink
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Strong views.

Strange; I thought snowHeads was made up of cliques.
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Just make everyone fits rear view mirrors to their ski poles and a loudspeaker programmed with 'out of my way slowcoach' in 10 different languages.

You can have that one for free.
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Overtaking on the traverse can be a difficulty sometimes, especially with snowboarders, when they're being dicks and skiing with their back to the entire run while still carving the entire width of it, It's not really an option to slow down just because of how annoying it is to have to traverse the rest of it, so I generally just try and figure out the easiest way to overtake without getting in the way of other people, often involves going above the traverse,
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andy wrote:
Not a problem, as one of the schools I used and would (hope to) use again seems to be very much in the non-clicking camp Wink


You should be mocked for that, make no mistake wink
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
jimmer wrote:
Chasseur wrote:

So clicking your poles with no idea about whether the person you're aiming that at has any idea how to react or interpret that "signal" is acceptable? And you're an instructor....?

Reverting to sarcasm to make a wholly irrelevant point in response to something that only could happen is quite illustrative, I think. Maybe you should declare your ski school/instructor business so people can make their own minds up...


I won't post which schools I work for, as me mocking you is probably not the best marketing for them.


Laughing Laughing Laughing ....... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Courage, conviction, lack of.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Ultimately, the uphill skier must anticipate and allow for any movement of the riders below them, albeit a consistent line (preferable) or sudden erratic movements (not ideal). An uphill skier has no right to 'pole click', whether it be to politely ask a downhill rider to move over or to alert them to your presence. It's distracting and potentially dangerous. I know people do it, but it's about as useful as those who overtake snowboarders on their blind side. It's everyone's mountain, just chill out and wait a second......jeeeeez.
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You know it makes sense.
Mosha Marc wrote:
Strong views.

Strange; I thought snowHeads was made up of cliques.


Laughing Laughing

Very good.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I think we need an extensive study on this.
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Poster: A snowHead
Chasseur wrote:
jimmer wrote:
Chasseur wrote:

So clicking your poles with no idea about whether the person you're aiming that at has any idea how to react or interpret that "signal" is acceptable? And you're an instructor....?

Reverting to sarcasm to make a wholly irrelevant point in response to something that only could happen is quite illustrative, I think. Maybe you should declare your ski school/instructor business so people can make their own minds up...


I won't post which schools I work for, as me mocking you is probably not the best marketing for them.


Laughing Laughing Laughing ....... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Courage, conviction, lack of.


Really? We're discussing clicking poles, probably the least consequential discussion ever to be had on here, I don't post on here for marketing (unlike some) i just post for my own entertainment, that might involve me not being entirely polite to people such as yourself. I'm sure I've mentioned where I work in the past though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Either misguided, a troll or your parents should have set the internet controls rolling eyes

Of course its not that serious, but you are just wrong. Plain. Simple. And as others have also suggested. Now run along to school and see if you can learn anything useful. Or do a Wayneo (another egotistical instructor - you're not related are you?).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Chasseur wrote:
Either misguided, a troll or your parents should have set the internet controls rolling eyes

Of course its not that serious, but you are just wrong. Plain. Simple. And as others have also suggested. Now run along to school and see if you can learn anything useful. Or do a Wayneo (another egotistical instructor - you're not related are you?).


It's ok, don't flatter yourself to have offended me so much that I'll leave the forum over it. If you're so old and wise maybe you should have grown out of trying to insult people on the internet by now.

Obviously there's a difference of opinion here, I'm not the only one to have thought that tapping poles was a polite way of letting people know you're passing them. You are the only one who took some light hearted internet banter seriously.
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jimmer wrote:
Chasseur wrote:
Either misguided, a troll or your parents should have set the internet controls rolling eyes

Of course its not that serious, but you are just wrong. Plain. Simple. And as others have also suggested. Now run along to school and see if you can learn anything useful. Or do a Wayneo (another egotistical instructor - you're not related are you?).


It's ok, don't flatter yourself to have offended me so much that I'll leave the forum over it. If you're so old and wise maybe you should have grown out of trying to insult people on the internet by now.

Obviously there's a difference of opinion here, I'm not the only one to have thought that tapping poles was a polite way of letting people know you're passing them. You are the only one who took some light hearted internet banter seriously.


Trust me, I don't take anything particularly seriously on this forum. If you want to trade insults and mocking, fill your boots. If you want to keep on clicking your poles, fine. I just really hope to never share a slope with you - there are enough arrogant Brits on the mountains as it is and I'd hate to have glare angrily at every berk who is impatient to pass - especially those that probably should know better, IMO.

Still, without wishing to keep going round and round in ever decreasing circles, that's all I'm saying on the matter. There are far more fun threads and folk to pass the the time with. Good luck with changing the skiing habits of everyone you instruct - I admire the dogged determination and single (narrow) mindedness, if little else.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Chasseur wrote:
jimmer wrote:
Chasseur wrote:
Either misguided, a troll or your parents should have set the internet controls rolling eyes

Of course its not that serious, but you are just wrong. Plain. Simple. And as others have also suggested. Now run along to school and see if you can learn anything useful. Or do a Wayneo (another egotistical instructor - you're not related are you?).


It's ok, don't flatter yourself to have offended me so much that I'll leave the forum over it. If you're so old and wise maybe you should have grown out of trying to insult people on the internet by now.

Obviously there's a difference of opinion here, I'm not the only one to have thought that tapping poles was a polite way of letting people know you're passing them. You are the only one who took some light hearted internet banter seriously.


Trust me, I don't take anything particularly seriously on this forum. If you want to trade insults and mocking, fill your boots. If you want to keep on clicking your poles, fine. I just really hope to never share a slope with you - there are enough arrogant Brits on the mountains as it is and I'd hate to have glare angrily at every berk who is impatient to pass - especially those that probably should know better, IMO.

Still, without wishing to keep going round and round in ever decreasing circles, that's all I'm saying on the matter. There are far more fun threads and folk to pass the the time with. Good luck with changing the skiing habits of everyone you instruct - I admire the dogged determination and single (narrow) mindedness, if little else.


Well I'll guess we'll part ways with a mutual lack of respect for each other then. Thankfully I don't ski anywhere that's at all populated with Brits, so I doubt our paths will cross any time soon, but if they do I'll make sure to tap my poles first Wink
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I'll certainly look uphill the next time I ask a question!
This forum has certainly got a lot warmer since last year....
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Sofia, apologies for the slight railroading of your thread Smile It is heading towards the Spring though wink
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I like the pole clicking. Its pretty common practice anywhere I've skied on narrow tracks - i think its a courtesy by the descender, and what they are simply doing is saying to the slower skiier that they are about to be passed out, usually on the very edge of the track - I think its a reasonable thing to do and that the bike bell analogy is accurate. Whats wrong with knowing there is someone faster coming? More info is better than less info. In some resorts (zermatt for example), some tracks can be really really really long, I certainly don't like having to put in unnecessary turns or lose all momentum because someone is snowplowing. However, know I know there is a population of people who startle, bambi like, at the sound of aluminium on aluminium, I'll immediately cease and desist... NehNeh
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As a relatively inexperienced (and slow) skier I like pole clicking, so i know someone is coming up behind. I thinks it's polite and sensible.
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I think clicking poles is like hearing a bicycle bell. If a bell sounds behind you, you don't know whether any reaction is necessary or which was to go, but you know the bicycle is there ergo. violent moves in any direction are ill advised. I think pole clicking is similar. I would also sooner hear a pole click and know someone is there than suddenly hear the bone grating sound of edges stopping on snow right behind me with no warning and not knowing if I am about to be slammed into. At least if someone pole clicks you know that you have been seen and that the you have been seen by someone with enough time to pole click and therefore, even if they sound to be getting close, you can guess that they also have time to do all they can to avoid you or they wouldn't have clicked in the first place. It's like the British tendancy to flash headlights to indicate to someone that they move into a gap - say on a motorway. I'm always happy to see a headlight flash in that situation as I know I have been seen and someone is watching for the move that I actually want to do.
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