 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello,
I've been reading a bunch of stuff about too much forward lean causing people to ski in the backseat. Where exactly did this come from?
I just removed my spoiler, taking my forward lean to 14 degrees, and I was confined to the tails of my skis, and unable to pressure the tips very well.
My calfs measure 15.5 inches in circumference at the widest point.
I took out the spoilers in a fit of boredom, but I didn't like the result and should put them back in.
"Skeletal skiing," as it were, may be less fatiguing, but doesn't feel "connected."
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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OnPisteSkier, I had a boot 22 degree years ago
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh, oh my. Is 17 degrees considered "aggressive" forward-lean?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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OnPisteSkier,
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I've been reading a bunch of stuff about too much forward lean causing people to ski in the backseat.
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What happens is when trying to get forward, folk bend too much at the waist -- and move their behinds backwards. This can be done in any boot, but those with more foreward lean make it worse.
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I just removed my spoiler, taking my forward lean to 14 degrees, and I was confined to the tails of my skis, and
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I think what happened to you is that by removing the spoiler, you went to far into the backseat. When I put my touring boots on - which a lower, more upright, and softer than my ski boots, I usually make the first turn in the backseat (even more so if they are still in walk mode  ), but then I remember and compensate.
You don't need the spoiler to get on the front of your ski......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I, at a relatively low level of competence, find that things improved a great deal when I stopped thinking about getting my weight forward and just thought about standing up. But that, simple as it sounds, did need quite a lot of input from good teachers.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A drill you could try for fore / aft balance is to ski on a safe, gentle, uncrowded, easy slope with boots undone (top 2 buckles and power strap undone). Will feel like pants to start with but stick with it for a few runs, will help you find you fore / aft balance point and ski more centred. I used to lean too much into my boots and this drill helped and I still do it from time to time to check myself.
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just learn to telemark 
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find that things improved a great deal when I stopped thinking about getting my weight forward and just thought about standing up.
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That ^
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I used to lean too much into my boots
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Me too! the Skia trainer can help big time imv to understand where your balance (currently is vs where it should be) a strong feeling in the core also helps, if you collapse at the waist over every little lump and bump and through the turn, you'll be forever fighting forward/aft balance & lack of grunt through the ski.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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just learn to telemark
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or XC ski if your knees are not up to telemarking. Fantastic for balance all round. Your boots will not hold you up at all, and neither will the narrow skis with no metal edges.
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pam w,
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if your knees are not up to telemarking.
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I don't find tele hard on the knees ? Mrs Ski has been doing tele since busting both ACLs.
Sorry bit off topic.
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just learn to telemark
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... with leather boots and skinny skis...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Masque, I have an SOS lined jumper for sale in most sizes just right.
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Cynic, Already sorted with both a Dale and an authentic 30s mountain sweater in a nice shade of dung.
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque, I really should have known!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Cynic, Got some tweed plus 6's too, along with wool corduroy breeks, 2 very fine wool soft collar shirts, knitted tie, Harris Tweed waistcoat and a well worn wax cotton cagool 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have boots ranging from 15 to 21 deg forward lean and don't find that the forward lean angle puts me in the back seat but rather the 'delta' angle does. The delta angle is the angle between the sole of the boot and the base of the ski. If the heel of your boot is higher from the ski base than the toe to ski base typically the more in the back seat you will feel. This is the critical angle to get right as oppossed to forward lean
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| waynos wrote: |
| A drill you could try for fore / aft balance is to ski on a safe, gentle, uncrowded, easy slope with boots undone (top 2 buckles and power strap undone). Will feel like pants to start with but stick with it for a few runs, will help you find you fore / aft balance point and ski more centred. I used to lean too much into my boots and this drill helped and I still do it from time to time to check myself. |
I remember doing a morning's training in austria like this. it was excellent for finding that centre point and 'feeling' whether you were balanced or not. might have to give it a go again next week  i also had a boss, when i lived in munich, who'd been an ESF instructor, and he also (continually) told me to feel for that perfect point where my weight was equally balanced on my toes and heels. i'm sure it was instrumental in improving my skiing by quite a degree.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Too much forward lean in some cases can restrict ankle movement, not sure how is this linked to the back seat issue.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would caution the use of boot undone skiing I saw it break the ankle of an unfit overweight ski school class participant
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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never summer, I think it's more to do with skimottarets' point. If the delta angle of your boots is too big, then you lean back to compensate.
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skimottaret, How about the angle of the boot base plate and the ski base. If the boot is canted this will also alter the angle of the centre of balance so I feel that a natural compensation takes place and the person with the best morphology will out, that is why some ski better than others it is what you are born with.
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never summer,
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Too much forward lean in some cases can restrict ankle movement, not sure how is this linked to the back seat issue.
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Yoy need to flex your ankles to absorb pressure caused by turning or bumps. If you have leant to far forward --- i.e. flexed your ankles as much as you can, then the only movement you can make is to bend your knees more... which moves you backward.
Flex is a movement, not a position.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ski, Well stated so to obtain flex a movement not a position, you would obviously advocate a boot that flexes
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Cynic, Yep -- I would advocate a boot that the user can flex given what the want to to. So touring boots and GS, prob not 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Today I skied a few runs with the spoiler, then took it out, then put it back in.
Examing my tracks from the lift, I have much tighter turns and better transitions with the spoiler in (extra forward lean), and struggle to bend the tips with less forward lean.
So, more forward lean = tighter turns?
BUT
More tip pressure washes out the ski and screws with edge hold in sketchy snow conditions, so it is necessary to have dynamic turns, and in fact pressure the tail in bottom part of turn.
FYI, I'm talking about pure carved turns here.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| OnPisteSkier wrote: |
More tip pressure washes out the ski and screws with edge hold in sketchy snow conditions, so it is necessary to have dynamic turns, and in fact pressure the tail in bottom part of turn.
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Ability to pressure the tails is exactly what you'll lose by removing the spoilers/less fwd lean, sure less fwd lean "could possibly" put your weight a little more toward the heels, but that's not what you do to pressure the tails.
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OnPisteSkier,
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extra forward lean
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I think putting the spoiler in gives you less 'backward lean' - rather than more forward. When you want to pressure the tails of the skis, you have the contact at the back of the boot to do that.
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You know it makes sense.
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The Scott Mission came alive with heel pressure in piste turns, I only found spoiler helped in turn about the tails and windscreen wiper turns, hmmm must try some of those again.
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FAQ
If I am really brave and strong, I'll do a run with the clips undone.. now that is not easy...
