 Poster: A snowHead
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Just got back from Whistler and must say was one of the best resorts ive ever been to. If anybody ever gets the chance do it do it do it.
Flew out with Air canada and 90 min drive to slopes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bostin1978,
I was there last week and as piste skiers we had our best ever ski holiday and even managed some off piste in the bowls.
This was our third visit and its not always this good (for piste skiers) but piste conditions were fantastic last week and we even managed 4 bluebird days.
We skied so much that we were all safely tucked up in bed by 9.30 each night although we did manage 10.00 once 
We went with Air Canada as well and were pleasantly surprised how good they were.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yebbut it rains all the time.....
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I've been to Whistler twice now and I still struggle to believe it is that amazing.
Pros
Often gets epic amounts of powder
The off piste is ssupposed to be amazing
The bowls are meant to be amazing
Friendly NA attitude
Cons
There are not as many lifts as a large European linked resort
The lifts are mostly slow 4 seaters
The lift pass is like 50% more than a comparable European resort
Its a 10 hour flight away
The apres does not compare to a European resort, its definitely lacking IMO (lots of families around)
I have told myself I will go back one more time and get a guide to go off piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gangstarrrrr, I've never been to Whistler although I usually ski in North America. But isn't the whole point of skiing over there that you don't need a guide to go off piste?
Agree about Air Canada, btw. Best transatlantic airline in my experience.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
gangstarrrrr, I've never been to Whistler although I usually ski in North America. But isn't the whole point of skiing over there that you don't need a guide to go off piste?
Agree about Air Canada, btw. Best transatlantic airline in my experience. |
Quite possibly - I don't know.
I would get a guide as I am rather cautious and wouldnt like to end up somewhere I shouldnt be and like the idea of someone being able to raise an alarm should something happen. And i'd imagine the guides would know all the best places to hit for a given ability.
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Good to hear 5 weeks today and I'll be there.
I knew the lift pass was expensive but bleeming heck.....
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| Grizwald wrote: |
Good to hear 5 weeks today and I'll be there.
I knew the lift pass was expensive but bleeming heck..... |
a 6 day pass is 582CAD (429EUR) on the day or 522CAD (385EUR) in advance.
a 6 day 3 valleys pass is 260EUR. and the 3 valleys has much better lifts, more lifts and a larger ski area.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 20-02-13 15:02; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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gangstarrrrr, Also has the ESF the best qualified instructors in the World
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Cynic, and 3V has no pesky TO reps clogging up the slopes with their herds of punters following and skiing like goats.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gangstarrrrr, I was genuinely shocked how expensive Whistler has become since I was there. But given the choice, i'd pick Whistler every day of the week and twice on Sundays over the 3 valleys.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Also has the ESF the best qualified instructors in the World
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but the Canadian ones in whistler will cost you heaps more 
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Also has the ESF the best qualified instructors in the World
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but the Canadian ones in whistler will cost you heaps more |
i forgot to mention, the lessons are extortionate. *one* half day private lesson (3 hours) is 450-480CAD (350EUR). ridiculous. I've no doubt cheaper options are available, but it is off putting.
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You know it makes sense.
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gangstarrrrr, I was rather underwhelmed by Whistler, although Easter brunch at the Chateau was fabulous.
fatbob, yep it rained almost everyday, and we were under cloud cover for the rest.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hells Bells, That's the problem with any single ski holiday - sample of one, if it's not good you don't go back. More so if you've invested a lot in it, emotionally or financially.
Most of the cost moaning is down to the relatively stellar performance of the loonie vs £, although Whistler has always been far from cheap for Canada and BC, in itself a relatively expensive province.
Private lessons are targetted at high spending merkins, internationals and Hollywood stars who are often filming in and around Vancouver. That's just the way it is. I did see Tom Berenger in full camo gear walking across the plaza once (he did not look like Willem Dafoe had just shot him)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gangstarrrrr, in other shocking news, some consumers have reported that a Bentley convertible will cost more to buy and own than a Ford Transit even though the Transit van has more cargo capacity. Disgraceful price gouging, I say!
I don't ski in North America because it's cheaper (although it used to be cheaper 5 years ago). I ski there because, for the type of skiing holiday that I enjoy, it's much, much better. And those prices for private tuition are cheap compared with some resorts in the USA  .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jonny Jones, do all North American resorts operate a kind of "monopoly" on ski lessons, so that competitors, whether schools or individual instructors, are not allowed to muscle in? Or is that just a vicious european rumour?
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pam w, yes they do
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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loved whistler and the bowls and powder were awesome. Yes apres can be a bit restrictive in terms they only have one drink offer on per day.
I went in april so lots of bluebird days 
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pam w, No it's true because the resort owns the property outright or has an exclusive lease on Crown (in Canada) or Forest Service land. So they can and do control who operates there within the law. I believe some of the Whistler ski franchises used to be independent e.g. Extremely Canadian but were all bought up by the resort operators. There are highly complex insurance related hoops "guest" instructors have to go through to teach outside their home resort AIUI in the US, even where operating on an approved camp etc. However none of them need to be formally qualifies for "safety" reasons - I believe Gordy Camp uses a number of pro skiers who don't hold any PSIA badges etc.
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I'd rather take my chances in Banff or Breckenridge if skiing in NA and booking well in advance.
The weather is a crapshoot. I'd only go in mid winter. Was a damp slushy mess when we went in early March.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| IrishEskimo wrote: |
I'd rather take my chances in Banff or Breckenridge if skiing in NA and booking well in advance.
The weather is a crapshoot. I'd only go in mid winter. Was a damp slushy mess when we went in early March. |
Yes, you are right, a slushy mess, it only snowed 4 metres last march. 
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Stuarth-Any idea what the best read least expensive way of getting the lift pass? Accom are quoting us the direct with the website prices, website says buy early for discount. Read on other posts people pick theirs up at 7/11s and the like?
As we're there the last day of March into April it will be cheaper getting a one day pass for that the a separate pass for the rest of the time when we're into April.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have never seen an alternative to the official resort-sponsored ski school in North America. Unlike Europe, though, the quality of tuition is uniformly of an extraordinarily high standard. On the other hand, instruction is definitely priced as a luxury product.
To be honest, that's never bothered me particularly. When my children were in ski school, my highest priority was for them to quickly reach a standard where we could ski together as a family. After three weeks in US and Canadian ski schools, my eldest, then aged 11, could comfortably ski any in-bounds off-piste so he graduated from ski school; my other lads took an extra week but actually graduated younger. It wasn't cheap, but it was good value.
Also unlike Europe, you can get free on-piste guiding in most North American resort. You don't even need a slightly dodgy semi-illegal tour operator guide: an army of local pensioner volunteers turns up every morning to lead groups to the best snow on the hill in exchange for some company, a free lift pass and the hope of a tip or two.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| gangstarrrrr, in other shocking news, some consumers have reported that a Bentley convertible will cost more to buy and own than a Ford Transit even though the Transit van has more cargo capacity. |
This would have been a great analogy if one were clearly better than the other. I am pointing out, that in many aspects, most of which are important (eg lift infrastructure), European resorts can and do spank whistler.
I am not a hater of the place, I've been twice, proposed to my wife there, and will go back one more time to try it out. I am merely stating that I believe you can get much of what is offered there, if not better, in Europe and at a much lower cost. Clearly, their epic powder is a big selling point, but for piste skiing, Europe all day long.
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Grizwald, I would talk to a North American specialist like American Ski Classics or Ski Independence. In my experience - and various friends have found the same - they can usually help you to devise cunning plan to lower the cost of your lift passes. In some resorts you have to book your accommodation from them to take advantage of the discounts, but that's not universally true. I would give both operators a call before booking anything.
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You know it makes sense.
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gangstarrrrr, that depends on what you define as important - lift infrastructure is there to move people to the places they want to go, so if you want fast lifts to ski hundreds of kilometres of pistes then Europe is your obvious choice. If you;re not too bothered about the number or speed of the lifts as long as they serve challenging terrain that includes trees and chutes as well as pistes, then North America is more your thing.
Each to their own. I like both. I can't afford NA as often as I'd like though 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, if I had the money spare I would give it another go.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Grizwald, I would talk to a North American specialist like American Ski Classics or Ski Independence. In my experience - and various friends have found the same - they can usually help you to devise cunning plan to lower the cost of your lift passes. In some resorts you have to book your accommodation from them to take advantage of the discounts, but that's not universally true. I would give both operators a call before booking anything. |
I'd add Ski Safari to this list. They sorted me out an awesome price for 7 nights at the Four Seasons w/ lift passes and flights. No one even came close. I still, to this day, think it might have been a mis-price!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gangstarrrrr, the worst North American resort that I've been to has been clearly better for my type of skiing than the best European resort - and, believe me, I've taken plenty of advice on where to ski in Europe.
The big differentiating factors are: in-bounds off-piste that's avalanche-controlled with the biggest dangers - cliffs and no-return gulleys - clearly marked; tree skiing; endless ungroomed terrain; bumps to die for; uncrowded trails; a great sunshine record despite hugely reliable snowfall; spacious, luxurious accommodation; and no lift queues (although I hear Whistler doesn't fare too well on that metric which is why I've never been there).
If you only want to ski groomers, Europe measures up pretty well. If you like the gnarlier edge of skiing, it's pants. Unless you want the expense and hassle of skiing with a Gauloise-smoking stranger from the ESF, that is.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| gangstarrrrr wrote: |
This would have been a great analogy if one were clearly better than the other. I am pointing out, that in many aspects, most of which are important (eg lift infrastructure), European resorts can and do spank whistler.
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Depends on your criteria - if they include picking up sloppy Canadian cougars, eating good sushi and genuine Japanese people doing bad Celine Dion kareoke without embarassment then Whistler spanks anywhere in Europe ski resort wise.
Lift infrastructure is a massive red herring - if you are a mileage mucher North America definitely isn't the right place for you regardless. The superiority of one place over another is purely down to the average number of pow days you stand to get in the long run.
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gangstarrrrr,
Whistler isn't "better" or "worse" than a European resort, it's just different.
Yes some aspects are more expensive - it doesn't help that the exchange rate has plummeted so that where £1 used to buy you $2.30 it now gets you $1.58, but it depends what you're looking for. Like Jonny Jones, I like the fact that I can confidently ski places in Whistler that I can't in Europe without a guide, because everything is avy-controlled and guided.
I like that I can get high quality instruction in my native language, without paying this rate:
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*one* half day private lesson (3 hours) is 450-480CAD
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Private lessons are overrated. For that money, I can do a 3-day Dave Murray Camp and have change for beer.
I've encountered conditions that cover the spectrum from outstanding to Cynic-al, and I'm still going back.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I should add that I had a brilliant holiday in Whistler, but not a brilliant ski holiday, and at the exchange rate quoted by Acacia above (whom I actually met in Whistler) I won't be hurrying back for a while yet. My flexible friend suffered then.
I found the ski classes 'cliquey' as they were all regulars on some sort of local season pass deal.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| gangstarrrrr wrote: |
This would have been a great analogy if one were clearly better than the other. I am pointing out, that in many aspects, most of which are important (eg lift infrastructure), European resorts can and do spank whistler.
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Depends on your criteria - if they include picking up sloppy Canadian cougars, eating good sushi and genuine Japanese people doing bad Celine Dion kareoke without embarassment then Whistler spanks anywhere in Europe ski resort wise.
Lift infrastructure is a massive red herring - if you are a mileage mucher North America definitely isn't the right place for you regardless. The superiority of one place over another is purely down to the average number of pow days you stand to get in the long run. |
I dont try and clock up as many miles as possible, often the opposite, I'm quite a lazy boarder, but when I am on a lift I want it to be quick, after all I'm not there to spend time on a chair lift, so a slow 4 seater defeats this. And when you're paying 50% more than Europe and getting fewer and slower lifts, I personally find that difficult to swallow.
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gangstarrrrr, so the cougars didn't swing it for you?
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| Grizwald wrote: |
Stuarth-Any idea what the best read least expensive way of getting the lift pass? Accom are quoting us the direct with the website prices, website says buy early for discount. Read on other posts people pick theirs up at 7/11s and the like?
As we're there the last day of March into April it will be cheaper getting a one day pass for that the a separate pass for the rest of the time when we're into April. |
I have found the best lift deal to be booking by August [sorry...] and getting the lift pass with the accomodation. There is a 7-11 in the town of Squamish [at which the coach transfer does not stop...] that apparently offers discounted passes, but I have never done it.
for me, Whistler's pluses are that it is set up for customers, there are miles and miles of terrain to suit whatever kind of skier you are, and although it can be a touch plastic-y, the people taking your money seem genuinely grateful for it. Oh, and it snows a lot.
On the other hand, I generally dislike skiing in France. I don't like cigarette smoke, scrums in the lift queues, Gallic 'charm', paying £5 for a coffee up the hill, limited snow [or so it seems most times I have been] and crowds. I did go to Austria for the first time at Christmas and it was great... I can see driving through France to get to my European skiing in the future.
Having said all that, Whistler is pricey and it feels that the business is set up to extract as much of your cash as possible. I am mulling over going somewhere different next year... Utah? Japan?
greg
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
If you only want to ski groomers, Europe measures up pretty well. If you like the gnarlier edge of skiing without having to deal with avalanche risks, it's pants. Unless you want the expense and hassle of skiing with a Gauloise-smoking stranger from the ESF, that is. |
Fixed it for you - I've never been to a resort here that doesn't have massive amounts of gnar, much of it much gnarlier than I (and probably most people) want to be anywhere near. Expanse of ungroomed and challenging skiing is not something Europe lacks in any way, shape or form, you just have to be prepared to manage avalanche risks (or pay for a guide, which certainly isn't madatory).
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clarky999, how does a once-a-year skier like me learn to 'deal with avalanche risks'? And how does a person unfamiliar with a resort discover which tempting-looking powder field leads inexorably to a precipice? And how does someone gain sufficient confidence in your judgement on these matters that they can lead their wife and three kids into a place that might kill them?
That's the problem with European skiing. The interesting stuff is locked away for the people with local knowledge or the people who want (and can afford) to ski with a guide. I'd prefer to spend my cash on flights than a week of guiding: I want to ski with my family. If I couldn't afford the flights, I'd ski once every 2-3 years in North America rather than every year on Europe's piste motorways.
I'll grant that some European resorts are starting to open up some more interesting terrain in a backlash against endless groomers - Zermatt's yellow runs and St Anton's itineraries are good examples. But it's far, far too limited to interest me.
If a European resort wants to break rank and open up an entire mountain or two in the North American fashion, I'll change my mind in an instant. Sadly, they're too stuck in their ways.
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