 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi
This has probably been covered somewhere, but I thought I would ask.
I have a pair of Salomon Mission 7's boots I bought for 100 euros 3 years ago. I chose them based on fit having tried on about 8 or 9 pairs accross 3-4 shops in resort, I was there at the end of the season and there were some very good deals on so I went for it, I had a budget up to 250 but went with the Missions because they were the best fit, suited my foot shape, were a little tight and uncomfortable, but not too much, and they broke in just right rather than ending up sloppy.
Skied them using hired skis, nothing longer than about 174cm, and had no problems, they have been a good boot and I have not had any issues with them. Bought new skis for this season, K2 Rictors, went long 181cm as I am 6ft2 and 16.5 stone.
It seems as though I am wearing different boots. I felt as though I had no control over my ski and basically I was having to work extremely hard to get them to do anything.
Now I am aware that this might just be the ski showing up my shoddy technique and I just need to give myself a talking to, but I don't want to labour away in vein.
I have been advised by a boot fitter (had a chat while I went with a friend to get there new boots) that this is because the Flex on the Salomons is too small for my height/weight and I was getting away with it on short skis, but the longer heavier K2 is showing up issues with the boot and I should get something with a higher flex given my height and weight and ski length.
I am not married to the boots, they were a good deal I have had about 6 weeks skiing out of them so have covered the cost by saving on rental I think.
Or have I bought myself to much ski? I am an intermediate to advanced. Happy on Reds and off-piste, I ski blacks, but I am not going to lie I don't bang down them, and I used to be fine on Moguls, till this year with the longer skis'
I have a slight preference to keep the ski's even if they are too much for me, as I would rather get a higher flex boot and work on my technique to make the ski's work for me, because I think ultimately I will benefit from the longer ski.
So should i
a) Stick with the boots and the skis and just suck it up, I need to work harder, maybe get some lessons to refresh technique etc
b) Change to a higher flex boot
c) admit defeat and swap to a shorter ski
Appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this and post
G
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ps the Salomon missions I have are a 80 Flex
I have been recommended to try around 110 flex
I am aware that flex measurements are about as much use as a chocolate firguard, so lets put it this way, my current boots are soft, should I get something harder.
G
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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welcome to snowheads
80 flex... wow I think that is pretty soft for someone of your height/weight, my 12 year old daughter has just gone into a new pair of boots and they are 60 flex, down from 70 last year (though reported flex rating can be over egged I believe)
Someone far more qualified will be along shortly,
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Yup, when I bought the boots I knew nothing about flex, my other half has been skiing a lot longer than me and her advice was don't worry about features just try everything and buy what fits your foot the best. Which I think was probably good advice at that point in my skiing career.
However I think that I may have outgrown them, be interested to see what other have to say. The other thing I have noticed in these boots is that I feel like I am going to fall out of them when I lean forwards, just no feeling of anything pushing back, again this has only started since using them with the new ski's.
G
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i am about 5ft 11, a between 12.5 and 13 stone and currently skiing in 130 flex. I think my first boots, when still pretty much a beginner were 90 flex (and i was 11 stone when wet).
You are correct though, fit is the most important part, but as you appear to have found out, not the only part which is why someone who fits boots proprerly will assess you, your feet and your skiing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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You really need one of the experienced guys to chip in.
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ansta1, Do mind me asking out of interest to put your posting above into context, are you a lady or a man?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Man.
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Ha I am man
I am 16.5 stone and made no effort to hide my weight, that should have been the clue
Edit, did not realize that was aimed at Ansta1
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Right, you need a higher flex index. The flex index of ski boots is measured in Nm (newton meters) height and weight are two of the most inportant factors in skiing and boot choice, add to that, ankle flex (dorsiflexion) and speed and you've got quite some serious data for making precise calculations.
Despite that which is often reported (flex index not being the same across brands and models) I have only seen evidence to the contrary. To date I have only not seen Salomon and Atomic's bootflex tests, but cannot imagine why they would use different machines than everybody else.
For us, flex index tells us most about the plastic types used in boots, softer flexing boots normally using cheeper, less durable and more temperature sensitive types (polypropylene), higher flex index' using POLYEther/Ester and Nylons (for want of a more precise polmer chain type).
The lowest flex boots we sell, purely for weight of clients, height and durability are 105 flex, even if you are just beginning (as my other half is)
do not be shy of stiffer boots. If you have a good range of motion, are more than 50kg, travel at 20km per hour you'll bend a 100 flex boot easily through the 10° needed to work the boot's rebound and use the boot as is designed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Stiffer boot it is then.
So what sort of flex should I be looking at ball park with my weight and hieght ( I have good flexibility and movement and am quite fit) I know 16.5 sounds heavy but I am a second row style build, the weight is distributed evenly, with big legs not all in my stomach thank god 
I travel at easily more than 20km when ski-ing piste, tend to take it a bit easier off-piste and moguls. Having said that I don't want to be in boots I 'have' to ski fast to flex.
110 as a good balance or go higher to 120?
Maybe get a boot that allows flex to change so I have some options, or is that justa gimmick.
I am about a 102mm last based on my old boot, recomendations from the bootfitter who kicked this all off were Salomon impact and head vectors, these both fit quite well, with a slight preference for the Salomon (little tighter, felt like it would not get sloppy with wear)
Anything else someone could recommend I check out, fit still being my foremost consideration.
G
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don't be scared of high numbers!! anything above 130 and you'll be looking at some super narrow nylon boots, thus need to like the bootfitter alot as you'll be practically married in order to get them useable and cofortable.
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You know it makes sense.
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I am not as scared as I was, I was able to flex the 120 with just one boot on, and not strapped into a binding.
Granted this was in a room temperature shop rather than in the cold, so I might find it harder once I get back out there.
G
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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gordonrussell76, low temperature maybe, but like you say, you'll be in a binding and travelling at speed, thus nearly cancelling that out.
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Poster: A snowHead
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CH20 thanks for all your help.
I guess its just a case of trying some stuff on now and getting my old boots on ebay, bless em they were comfy.
As I said my main concern was if I were blaming the tools, but by the same token I don't want to waste precious time that I could be improving just learning to overcome boots that are not right. You have to pick your battles.
G
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| gordonrussell76 wrote: |
| I am not as scared as I was, I was able to flex the 120 with just one boot on |
Don't let that fool you, it's far easier to flex one boot on its own as you can put 'all' of your weight through the one boot! The test is to flex sharing your weight over both boots, twice as hard.
Probably 130 + at a wild guess, best to get a bootfitter to look at you.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fair point, I will try that when I go in to get fitted.
I am thinking a 110 might be the charm as I did quite like my boots on a shorter ski and I have read in other places on this forum where they advocate a more flexible boot can be good. Ie I don't want to go too far in the other direction
Dangers of too stiff a boot?
G
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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>130 sounds like overkill to me...
110-120 would sound more appropriate.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yup I was thinking 110-120
Without wanting to get specific on boots, one that i tried and felt like a good fit was the Head Vector 120, which i believe has adjustable flex, ie you can pull it back down to 110
I was wandering whether this might be the best option, as I cna see how i go at 110 and then I can always dial it up as I get better, or if I find 110 is not enough?
This variable flex boots, cool or a gimmick?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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under a new name, yeah you are probably right, I was going on an example Spyderjon gave recently. And knowing what I'm on for lack of weight, height etc.
Edit oops wrong SH 
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Hi thanks everyone for your good advice.
I am going to go back to the shop sometime this week.
While I was there the guy put me in a couple of boots to demonstrate the flaws in my current boots. As mentioned there were a Salomon Impact 100 and a Head Vector 120.
Ignoring flex difference for now as I would probably go for the Salomon Impact 110/120 and concentrating on fit.
The Salomon was pretty tight accross my foot width wise, there was pressure on the big toe joint (sorry don't know the posh word) and quite painful. The Head was just right. I believe this is becuase the Salomon is 102mm last and the Head is a 103mm.
However I am nervous about getting a boot thats just right, as will it potentially end up loose once I have broken it in?
Am I better off going for the Salomon and getting the shell heated etc to my foot (I believe that model has areas designed just for this purpose in the area I need)
Its a shame becuase I really liked the feel of the power strap on the head and the spine clasp thingies meant there was less pinching on my upper calf than I normally experience, (i have big calves, lots of cycling and trampolining in my youth)
Thoughts, and again appreciate everyone who has taken the time to chime in and help me. I am out to Avoriaz again in March and will report back on how my new boots do once I have chosen them
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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a.j.,
In all fairness I went along with my boots for a sanity check because I wanted to rule them out of problems I had been having that I was thinking were probably my technique, but I had not been going down a slope thinking hmm the flex of my boots its off.
I had just noticed that I was struggling with my new ski's and someone said I should check the flex of my boots. I had not really thought about it before. In my head I was like new skis sudden problem with short turns = ski's are the problem, or they are highlighting a problem with my technique, is was a chance conversation with a friend who suggested I get my boots checked, I had not even thought of them as an issue.
It was only when I went to a shop and was wearing one of my own boots on one foot and a stiffer flex on the other and could make a direct comparison that I noticed the difference and it was night and day, and this was between an 80 and a 100 flex not even one of the stiffer ones that I got onto later.
If your not having any problems and your boots are comfy then there is an argument that if its not broke don't fix it, however you could always try a comparison in a shop like I did. However stiffer may not be better for you personally, the best thing would be to rent a stiffer boot and see if it makes a positive difference? I am tempted to do the same before spending a bunch of cash on new boots, however I am only going ski-ing again once this year and I want to enjoy it, not faff about on rentals, the reason i bought boots in the first place was to have something that actually fit me. I could buy in resort again, but I feel that posisbly the language barrier was the reason I got something not appropriate in the first place, so again I think I will buy in the UK with a fitter who I can explain exactly what I am after too.
This is not me being zenophobic, its me having a very real appreciation of how terrible my french is
G
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a.j., My own investigations have indicated that the plastic that boots are made from seems to get stiffer with age, it, apparently, also loses the bounce/flexibility that gives you 'rebound', or so I am told. If your boots are a few years old maybe this is why they seem stiffer than they actually should be for what is printed on them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Okay
I started a new thread to ask this question and got now replies as you guys were so helfpul in replying I will give it a go here.
I did buy some new boots this weekend, thanks to all your advice. I went for a paid of Head Vector 120's, the boot just seems to work really well with my foot shape and I am very happy. I went with 120 as I can take bolts out the back and drop it back to a 110 if it is too much for me, so hopefully its a good balance.
However they have cant adjustments on both sides of the boots. The fitter did not adjust them for me as they said I had pretty good alignment in my legs and when I flexed my knee was right over the front of the boot. Cool
I get home and notice that while the two inner cant adjustments are set almost identically on each boot (for info the boot has a scale marked on the cant screw 0 in the middle and then a plus and minus mark at 90 degrees from the zero in either direction)
So the inner cant screws dials are both pointing at 0, the outer ones are set differently, I think 1 is at 0 and the other is nearly a quarter turn out and pointing at the plus mark.
So my questions is fresh out the factory should all the settings be at 0, or is the manufacturing process not accurate enough for every boot to be perfect so they have to set them to a central cant before they leave the factory and that explains the weird settings on the cant screws? Ie they have been adjusted to be as central as possible already.
I want to know as if its the case above I have nothing to worry about, if its not the case then one of three things happened in the fitting
1) by a miracle the cant adjustment although different in each boot was perfect for me out the box.
2) the cant is wrong, by by such a small amount that no one would notice and its not going to hurt me
3) the cant is wrong and ultimately may cause fatigue or issues when I ski.
appreciate your time taken reading this
g
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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gordonrussell76, sounds like they may have been twiddled with, might not be enough to worry about but worth getting them adjusted to conform with your lower leg, you can do it yourself but better to let the fitter do it. Go back to them.
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So should I just set the bolts so that they all point at 0 so at least its set central? I don't believe I have weird canting , my feet have always pointed fowards, my knees are central and my legs straight so if there is any wierdness its probably at a very small level that is not goint to be an issue, I just want the boots at the factory setting really. I can move on from there is I start to experience any problems. My previous boots were a lot cheaper than these ones and riveted both sides, and I never had any problems, ergo just getting them back to central will do me fine I think.
I am a bit wary of going back to the fitter because I specfically asked whether I needed cant adjustments, and they did not pick up on the fact that the boots were set to something other than central and told me my boots were fine.
G
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You know it makes sense.
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gordonrussell76,
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I am a bit wary of going back to the fitter because I specfically asked whether I needed cant adjustments, and they did not pick up on the fact that the boots were set to something other than central and told me my boots were fine.
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Did your fitter look at you standing in both boots (he should have done !). If so his statement on alignment would have been based on how the boots are setup. To resolve this, you need to speak with the fitter, as he's the only one who'll know what he has done.
Did you have footbeds made ? These will also have an impact..........
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Firstly, appreciate you guys chiming in.
I had foot beds fitter, off the shelf jobs not custom made, the idea being to give my high instep some support, not trying to deal with anything else. They advised that I did not need custom foot beds.
With the footbed in place and with the boots on they asked me to flex the boots forwards while they had a look from behind and in front, and said that as I flexed my knee stayed central over the boot through the range of movement hence I needed no adjustment.
However they had not checked the setting on the cant screws and as I said these as it turns out are not set the same on each boot.
Now as I menitioned there is an outside chance that the setting happened to be perfect, but it does have me wandering what is right.
I will probably go back to the fitter for a sanity check, but I want to go armed with knowledge about what should be happeneing and where the boots should be set as a starting point.
I also have a suspcion as mentioned that my legs are pretty normal and that I don't actually need anything done, just want to make sure I am not going to damage myself when ski-ing.
G
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Poster: A snowHead
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gordonrussell76, why am I thinking this was a very busy boot "seller"
Do you have the little user manual that came with them, if I remember...my Salomons don't come neutral as std, might be wrong? Normally the manual just gives you a diagram to adjust for bow legged knock kneed stance adjustment, you just need to adjust them to suit, normally by standing on a flat surface in your "shells only" standing on your footbeds, with the boots done up, you just need to get an equal gap both sides of your lower leg, easier with two people, but really a fitter is your best bet, they'll do it in seconds.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It was a little busy.
I had read the head manual, and to be honest its pretty light, it has one paragraph on the cant screws saying, these are cant screww, you can adjust them. Hence why I am posting here.
Maybe thats the user manual and there is a more in depth one for the fitters.
When you say an equal gap, where between the bottom of the cuff and the rest of the boot ?
I think you are right I will just go back.
I may be going to a snowdome before i get chance to go to the fitter, should i just set it back to the zero marks on the boot to be going with?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh I see so you are saying that maybe they are not neutral as standard, that they assume that the fitter will do the work, so to get them central I should just set them back to zero.
Or just get the fitter to sort it out so I can stop worrying
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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gordonrussell76, Equal gap between the top part of the cuff and your leg, "without liners in" but with footbeds, there will be a big gap all around you calf lower leg area, you need the same size gap on the inside of your lower leg as the outside of your lower leg, once the liners are back in, there should be no uneven pressure on either sides of your leg when stood on a hard level surface, normal width stance, a boot fitter will make sure you are standing correctly, so better to go back.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gordonrussell76,
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Or just get the fitter to sort it out so I can stop worrying
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That's the one 
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Right
I think I know what happened here, based on some advice from both these threads, I thought I will set these back to zero.
The cuff/cant screw is attached via a allen bolt through an eliptical outer sheath or cam. ie both turn. You loosen the allen bolt, then turn the outer cam, as its ellitical this raises or lowers the cuff on that side. When I set this all to zero and went to tighten bolt, the tightening can cause the cam to turn due to the torque, you have to take care to hold the cam (a penny inserted in the cams slot did the trick) and prevent it from turning as you tighten.
So I assume what happens in the factory is when these bolts are tightened the cam screw turns to random settings.
I have reset to zero, but will go back to the fitter to have it all checked out.
Just thought I would put this up here so that anyone else buying head boots, or boots with an elliptical cuff adjustment can benefit from my experience.
Cheers
G
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FAQ
Or go on a better diet maybe 
