 Poster: A snowHead
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My skis are about to undergo a major service (too much late season rock hopping last year) so I have an opportunity to change the base angle. They are Atomic Aspects, with Dynafit TLT Speed bingings, and are used mainly for touring, with occasional on piste and lift served off piste (but not often, as I have other skis for that). The manufacturers base angle is 1 degree. I'm tempted to go for 0.5 degree for better edge grip on icy traverses, with 87 or 88 degrees on the edge angle.
Any thoughts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think you may be overthinking this 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Chamcham, a question I have never asked myself in honesty. I normally sharpen my touring stuff to the existing angles. Given the treatment it gets the sharpness won't last too long, but I think you are spot on thinking about the icy traverse situation as its the trickiest one, also side stepping/slipping on ice. In the olden days I would detune the tips and tails to avoid catching in these situations, thinks!
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Chamcham, I'd stick to probably 1 base 3 side, for mainly off piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Leave be, keep a gummy stone in your bag and when stopping for tea, scones and some tiffin, de-burr the edges, adds life and gives your overactive mind something to do!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Chamcham, I did my mainly off piste skis 0.75 base and 3 side, as being a little wide they don't edge on icy pistes quite as well as I would sometimes like. I'd be happy with 1 on the base, you don't need lightning quick edge changes and a 0.5 may hook up unexpectedly. Defo go for the 87 side though, I didn't notice mine wearing any quicker, and if you touch them up every couple of days they stay sharp.
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Serriadh, And I like experimenting
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| gatecrasher wrote: |
| Chamcham, I'd stick to probably 1 base 3 side, for mainly off piste. |
I'd be interested to hear your rationale?
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Chamcham, Pretty much for the reasonScarpa, says!
0.7 wouldn't be a bad place to start either, you can always change to 1.0 later if you want, or you could mix it up a bit & have 1.0 tip/tails and 0.7 on the majority of base edge contact area.
Decisions, decisions! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Chamcham, I go for the theory that the more metal on the edge the better so leave as is - changing it won't make a lot of difference in anything other than boilerplate and you need to remove metal to change the angles.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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...and changing the base angle can require/prompt a base grind so, unless you like working your way through skis, I'd leave well alone.
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| altis wrote: |
| ...and changing the base angle can require/prompt a base grind so, unless you like working your way through skis, I'd leave well alone. |
I think that's the point, at least that's how I read the OP. They're going to get a grinding anyway so now is the chance to change the angle.
I wouldn't bother changing the base angle away from 1 degree, but then again I have only (AFAIK) skied on a 1 degree base angle. If you flatten it off you'll get better grip, but most of the time that's exactly what you don't want off piste. Many years ago we used to detune our edges if there was a dump (assuming they'd just been serviced). To be honest I'm not sure it made a huge difference, and people seem less fussed about it now, but I wouldn't go out of my way to tune them "up". If it's icy and you are going up you'll probably have the ski crampons on anyway, and if you are going down you probably want to side slip ice rather than (try to) make GS turns when you're a long way from help. My touring-specific Black Diamonds have a 1/3 angle factory setup if that's any use.
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You know it makes sense.
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| sah wrote: |
| altis wrote: |
| ...and changing the base angle can require/prompt a base grind so, unless you like working your way through skis, I'd leave well alone. |
I think that's the point, at least that's how I read the OP. They're going to get a grinding anyway so now is the chance to change the angle.
I wouldn't bother changing the base angle away from 1 degree, but then again I have only (AFAIK) skied on a 1 degree base angle. If you flatten it off you'll get better grip, but most of the time that's exactly what you don't want off piste. Many years ago we used to detune our edges if there was a dump (assuming they'd just been serviced). To be honest I'm not sure it made a huge difference, and people seem less fussed about it now, but I wouldn't go out of my way to tune them "up". If it's icy and you are going up you'll probably have the ski crampons on anyway, and if you are going down you probably want to side slip ice rather than (try to) make GS turns when you're a long way from help. My touring-specific Black Diamonds have a 1/3 angle factory setup if that's any use. |
Yes you're right - looking at the state of the bases, I'm going to lose a fair amount of the edge anyway when it's ground, so now's the time to go for 0.5. If I don't like it, I have the option to go back to 0.75 or 1 later, without regrinding the base.
As far as I can work it out, the base angle should make little difference in pow - shirley, the edge isn't going to catch, no matter what the angle? On the other hand, it may be just what I need on an icy traverse. But then, as you say, maybe I don't want too much grip on the traverse/side slip.
Interesting...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sah,
And BD go for 0.3 deg? So, are BD on my side?
Sorry, just re-read it - you obviously meant 1 and 3 respectively. Doh!
Nice idea, though...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
As far as I can work it out, the base angle should make little difference in pow
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Yeah, the "old wives tale" says to detune at the front to avoid catching in powder - catching what exactly? a bit of fluff? I suspect it was a load of rubbish, I don't think anyone bothers anymore. Maybe it was to avoid cutting your face when you wiped out... that would have made a lot more sense, falling over in soft snow was a lot easier on skinny 203s.
Yes, BD have 1 degree base and 3 degrees edge.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| sah wrote: |
| Yeah, the "old wives tale" says to detune at the front to avoid catching in powder - catching what exactly? a bit of fluff? I suspect it was a load of rubbish, I don't think anyone bothers anymore. Maybe it was to avoid cutting your face when you wiped out... that would have made a lot more sense, falling over in soft snow was a lot easier on skinny 203s. |
It'll make more of a difference in heavier, crappy snow, especially with tapered tips and tails. Ski edges that are not part of the sidecut have no business being sharp. Plenty of manufacturers sort this out for you; I'm reasonably certain that the edges on my Rossi S3s were much smoother towards the tip and tail than underfoot, but my Praxis Wootests were razor sharp all round.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jesus. Do you actually go touring often? Either you can ski or you can't. Just get on them and ski them. The snow will be different from top to bottom anyway.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| zzz wrote: |
| Jesus. Do you actually go touring often? Either you can ski or you can't. Just get on them and ski them. The snow will be different from top to bottom anyway. |
Friendly place, snowheads.
Maybe I should post the question on TGR?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm sorry. I didn't mean to bite your head off.
On the average touring day, you are going to encounter ice, wind blown crust, maybe some real snow and if it's a long day, some slush. Whether you have your edges set at half or one degree isn't going to matter. I would save the money on a service and instead have a lesson on skiing in crap snow. It will make more difference.
Atb zzz
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zzz, Apology accepted.
And I agree with the points you make about optimum technique in different conditions, which is one of the reasons I like touring. But one of the other reasons I like touring is the opportunity it gives to experiment. Apart from technique, and of course fitness, perhaps the biggest leap in enjoying touring for me was moving to lightweight touring skis with dynafit. Then there's an incremental change with every new piece of kit - hitech clothing, pertex mittens, lightweight rucksack, hip belt pockets for energy foods - they all make a small, but appreciable, difference to performance and enjoyment. So experimenting with ski tuning is the next logical step. I'll know I've gone completely anal when I start filing bits off my boots...
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zzz, Oh, and they really, really need a service.
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I once hit a black mogul field on my skis towards the end of the week and the bumps were that scraped and solid that even side slipping I was just glancing off them instead of biting. I had not bothered to keep the skis sharp all week and felt it that day. The tail and tip de-tuning seems to be a hold over from the days of straight skis if you ask me. Much of the focus today is on getting the tips and tails to respond to our instructions and movements; you could, as said above, reduce the edge angle on them to lesson the 'hooking up' feeling but I like mine to bite on boilerplate, not slide sideways 
I have never found having sharp skis affected me off pistse, apart from being able to grip well on icy patches when some others were not able to stand securely.
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