 Poster: A snowHead
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It's long been said on here by some that La Plagne has lots of slow old lifts and thus long lift queues.
Does anyone know a source of information regarding queue length for any other Alpine resorts for comparison.
I have tried the Compagnie des Alpes website but queuing isn't mentioned (theers a shock!)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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wtss? all anecdotal though
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Boredsurfing, a few years since I was there now, but there was always a bottleneck at Bellecote, for both the Roche de Mio and the |Arpette, but I don't recall horrendous queuing elsewhere.
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Hells Bells, me too - last there in 2004 (sad really ...). The gondola up from Bellecote has always been a bottleneck but there is at least one alternative chair - fast 6 man IIRC.
Arpette chair was upgraded I think - did that solve that problem?
Elsewhere in the domaine, queuing was nothing exceptional - and I visited about 6 times in total. Mind you I used Belle Plagne and stayed up that end most of the time.
Boredsurfing, doubt if anyone with the data would release it - and the lift companies presumably only record traffic - not how long you stood waiting.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I stayed in Plagne Soleil in 2011, the lift queues seemed nothing out of the ordinary
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Dubaian, we stayed in Belle Plagne three times and once in Champagny.
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Boredsurfing, it would be very interesting to have comparisons but there are a lot of vested interests which might make it difficult!
There's no necessary relationship between old slow lift and long queues - if there aren't big crowds around. There are still some slow lifts in our domaine (though they are being updated and the worst offenders are now fast TSDs) but outside the peak 5 weeks of the season queues are rare. Even in peak times some parts of the domaine are quiet (especially those served by murderous drags,  ) though that doesn't apply to Les Saisies - where frankly I CBA with the queues - if I am here in those weeks I drive to a quieter part of the domaine or go walking/snowshoeing/XC skiing). And fast lifts can reduce queues but make for very crowded pistes. My daughter and son in law, both experienced skiers, were struck by this in Flaine, one half term with poor snow when the lower areas were not tenable. They were in lessons with UCPA and said they'd never felt so vulnerable, with very crowded pistes which were slick and fast, and saw plenty of collisions.
people's tolerance of queues obviously varies a lot; mine is low to non-existent. Some people are more patient - hence the positive trip reports where people say "we rarely queued for more than 10 - 15 minutes". 
The worst queues I've encountered have been in Chamonix (low season, never been there high season) and Cairngorm. Haven't been to La Plagne for years, but don't recall much queuing at all (dead low season though, like most of my skinflint holidays).
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pam w,
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people's tolerance of queues obviously varies a lot; mine is low to non-existent. Some people are more patient - hence the positive trip reports where people say "we rarely queued for more than 10 - 15 minutes".
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Quite! At least one lift in Bellecote has a sign saying 7 mins from this point, ironically from that point it is less than 5 mins! But at the peak times during the day the sign is about hlaf way along the queue.
I guess the timing depends on how many chairs go up with one person on them 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I guess the timing depends on how many chairs go up with one person on them
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yes, that's so annoying - I do wish there were "singles lines" so that those of us with low queue tolerance could take advantage of those who refuse to get on a lift without their bestest friend.
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pam w, +1 and lanes for season pass holders 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
lanes for season pass holders
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Boredsurfing,  We are a captive audience - not much business sense for the lift companies in lanes for season pass holders! It's the passing trade, with infinite choice between resorts, that they need to woo.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The french lift companies should send some of their people to New Zealand, there they have a method of queuing that I would need to draw a diagram of to explain, it involves pre-forming everybody into full chairs in the queue, with single lines on both sides on a six seater. Gets very busy there at school holiday times but at least you can see every chair is full. My personal tolerance to queuing is pretty well zero.
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I was skiing in La plagne last Wed and the weather was perfect and there were no queues for any of the lifts.
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You know it makes sense.
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yes, that's so annoying - I do wish there were "singles lines" so that those of us with low queue tolerance could take advantage of those who refuse to get on a lift without their bestest friend
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I was really annoyed over new year to see that the singles queue on the Arpette lift in Les Arcs had gone. There were empty seats on many lifts that could have been used and at times the queue was an unacceptable 5 minutes.
Boredsurfing, I like the idea of making season pass holders wait longer. After all they have all season.
And the prize for the resort with the worst queues goes to --- St Anton, 3 consecutive queues of 30 minutes each just to get up the mountain.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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johnE, when was that in St Anton?
Thanks
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
La Plagne has lots of slow old lifts and thus long lift queues.
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The speed of the lift and the length of the queue are not even remotely related.
Assuming a fixed demand, the length of the queue is a function of the uplift rate - i.e. the number of skiers per hour that the lift will take.
The speed of the lift only determines how long it takes you to get up the lift once you get on it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The speed of the lift only determines how long it takes you to get up the lift once you get on it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Boredsurfing, time to spread your wings and ski elsewhere? Be sure to provide plenty of advance warning though
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| James the Last wrote: |
| Boredsurfing wrote: |
La Plagne has lots of slow old lifts and thus long lift queues.
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The speed of the lift and the length of the queue are not even remotely related.
Assuming a fixed demand, the length of the queue is a function of the uplift rate - i.e. the number of skiers per hour that the lift will take.
The speed of the lift only determines how long it takes you to get up the lift once you get on it. |
And the "number of skiers per hour that the lift will take" is a function of ...????
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| agw wrote: |
The speed of the lift only determines how long it takes you to get up the lift once you get on it. |
And the "number of skiers per hour that the lift will take" is a function of ...????[/quote]
...the number of seats on each chair, how close together the chairs are on the cable. The speed of the lift once you're on it is a complete red herring.
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James the Last, queues at a fast lift move a lot quicker than queues at a slow lift. And because slow old lifts were often 2 or 4 man fixed chairs their replacement with 6 man detachables makes an enormous difference to queues. Other things being equal - which they might not be if the advent of fast new chairs brings in more punters, as the lift companies presumably assume they will, when analysing the cost/benefit of the investment. And that means more crowded pistes, which are just as unpleasant as lift queues.
It's hell being a skier, for sure.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| agw wrote: |
And the "number of skiers per hour that the lift will take" is a function of ...???? |
...the number of seats on each chair, how close together the chairs are on the cable. The speed of the lift once you're on it is a complete red herring. |
Why do they have TSDs at all, then? Why not just have really slow six-packs?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Story I heard is Les Arcs and La Plangne are having a bit of a tiff since the big cable link went in. Basically while Les Arcs has continually improved lits, La Plagne haven't kept their end of the bargin and it's causing tension between the two resorts.
I've not been, and I'm not likely to given it's reputation for flat boring slopes, slow lifts and big queues. The holy trinity of rubbish in my view.
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Dr John, CDA own the lifts in both resorts so how can there be a tiff with themselves? The lifts in La Plagne are also updated.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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if the advent of fast new chairs brings in more punters ... that means more crowded pistes, which are just as unpleasant as lift queues
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I don't like to be negative about places that others may hold dear; but we were in La Plagne in about 2007 for half term, actually we stayed in Montalbert which is on the fringe of the ski area, and despite the plethora of six- and eight-man chairs, the after-lunch queues were so bad that we were setting off for home from Plagne Centre at 2 30 every day, and spending probably most of an hour in several massive queues. You know the sort where they extend the queuing area out using that orange netting, and it still spills out about 20 metres beyond that in a kind of jostling funnel, full of teenagers on snowboards releasing your bindings from behind, loud Yorkshiremen pushing in at the edge at 30 mph, and so on ...
I am no stranger to old, slow lifts on the "Swiss side" of the PdS, and there are a couple where queues look long at peak times, but generally I will take a quiet place with slow lifts, over a busy one with fast lifts, any day.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I was there in 2009 in early Feb and we never lined up for more than 5 mins. I thought that was pretty good. Most of the time there were minimal q's. Les arc had the biggest lines. We only went there once and didnt bother going back as it took so long.
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We were in La Plagne last year and didn't really notice any problems with queues. I guess it depends what time of year you go. Be flexible though, we tend to plan our route as far as lets go downhill, if at the bottom of the run there are a few options of lifts going up then get in the one with the shortest queue.
| Chasseur wrote: |
| Boredsurfing, time to spread your wings and ski elsewhere? Be sure to provide plenty of advance warning though |
Or maybe just follow someone off-piste? What could possibly go wrong?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| agw wrote: |
| Why do they have TSDs at all, then? Why not just have really slow six-packs? |
Do you like spending hours on chairs? I don't, I prefer skiing. That's probably why they have chairs that take you up the mountain more quickly. I'm really surprised you think slow chairs would be as good as fast chairs.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| James the Last, queues at a fast lift move a lot quicker than queues at a slow lift. And because slow old lifts were often 2 or 4 man fixed chairs their replacement with 6 man detachables makes an enormous difference to queues. |
I agree, replacing 2- or 4-man chairs with 6 mans increases the uplift rate by 1.5 or 3 times.
I agree, demountable chairs tend to allow two lots of people to be lining up at once, rather than just one lot as with undemountable chairs, so they increase the rate.
BUT there is no correlation at all between the speed at which you are taken up the mountain and the speed at which the queue moves.
A 6-man demountable that moves really slowly up the hill will get exactly the same number of people up the hill per day as a 6-man demountable that takes you up the hill at the speed of light. Honest. (Assuming that a new chair comes round at a constant 30 seconds (or whatever it is) under both cases. This means that the chairs on the slow 6-man will be quite close together on the cable, whereas those on the fast 6-man will be far apart.
If anything the queues will be BIGGER at the faster chair as people are prepared to queue for longer if the ride is faster. So the total time from joining the queue to leaving the chair at the top is not improved.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Been there about 12 times in total - usually at Chritmas or Easter - and occasionally there are smallish queues but these tend to be at peak times ie just after am and pm ski school departure times. Never been there at half-term or New Year I understand from friends that it can get very very busy then.
Skiied in the 3V pre Christmas, and hit the one of the worst queues I'd been in at Meribel. It took about 20mins to reach the lift. I think it was Plattieres 1.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| James the Last wrote: |
....
Assuming that a new chair comes round at a constant 30 seconds (or whatever it is)
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That's a pretty big assumption you've sneaked in there! The "chair frequency" depends on the speed of the system as well as the spacing of the chairs.
Now as I understand it the speed of the mechanism at either end of the lift is geared to the speed of the main cable so the number of skiers per hour must depend on that speed (as well as the other factors you mention).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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there would be little purpose in building expensive TSDs if they only got the same number of people up the hill in an hour.
A chair which gets more people up the hill in a given time will (other things being equal) make for smaller queues.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| agw wrote: |
That's a pretty big assumption you've sneaked in there! The "chair frequency" depends on the speed of the system as well as the spacing of the chairs.
Now as I understand it the speed of the mechanism at either end of the lift is geared to the speed of the main cable so the number of skiers per hour must depend on that speed (as well as the other factors you mention). |
I think you've got that back to front.
The mechanism at either end is designed to load people as quickly as is practical - hence a chair every 30 seconds (or whatever). If you run the cable more quickly (speed of light, say) you would have to change the gearing. Otherwise speeding up the cable would mean mashing skiers as they wouldn't be able to get onto the chairs quickly enough.
The rate limiting step is getting people onto the chairs. Look at the Bollin/Fresse lift at Tignes. There are two loading points for one lift cable.
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| pam w wrote: |
| there would be little purpose in building expensive TSDs if they only got the same number of people up the hill in an hour. |
Quite. It's demounting the chairs that increases the number of people that you can get up the lift in an hour - the second lot are on the moving mat whilst the first lot are still waiting for their chair to arrive. It's NOT the taking them up the hill more quickly that increases the uplift rate.
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| A chair which gets more people up the hill in a given time will (other things being equal) make for smaller queues. |
Absolutely. But this has nothing to do with the speed at which it gets the up the hill.
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Although we own in Les Arcs we actually do like going to La Plagne. Our 1st holidays were La Plagne side so we know it well. Only once had the expereince to go the area when it was busy(very bad plannig) and it was hell. I would say that La Plagne potentially has more 'pinch points' than Les Arcs. When we were there when it was busy we got caught Champagny side and it was terrible, extradionary queues. Hard now to judge queues etc as we know both resorts so well we know how to avoid the bad spots.
My gripe now is the access from the Vanoise to the main centre of La Plagne (Belle Plagne etc..). Thats convuleted and slow and we find now that by the time we are 1/2 way down Arpette we have to stop for coffee as we are slow. Is Les Arcs more condensed and La Plagne more spread out? We know the runs we like in La Plagne (La Roche area and runs of Roche Del Mio) and we normaly scoot across, do these and come back.
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We have been out here in La Plagne most of the season and the only time we have had to queue was from 26th December until 2nd January (except New Years day for some peculiar reason).
It is not unusual for queues to occur during one of the busiest periods of the season, I would imagine that is the case in most resorts over Christmas but particularly the New Year week.
The slowest lift I have been on this season is the second section out of Montalbert (can't remember the name of it) but I thought that was due to be replaced soon.
Maybe when that is replaced things will not seem as bad for you Boredsurfing,
Even better, when the kids have fled the nest, you could even have the chance to spend some time out here when it is lovely and quiet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's NOT the taking them up the hill more quickly that increases the uplift rate.
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Yes it does though it's not the only factor. Our new TSD (which doesn't have a moving mat, by the way) can go at various speeds. When it's quiet (which is most of the time) they run it a bit slower, to save electricity. At a busy time they can make it go faster. Which increases the uplift rate.
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skichampcouk,
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The slowest lift I have been on this season is the second section out of Montalbert (can't remember the name of it) but I thought that was due to be replaced soon.
Maybe when that is replaced things will not seem as bad for you Boredsurfing,
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Replaced...maybe, apparently a Gondola is proposed but at a cost of 5 other lifts being removed including Coqs. (Fuller details on perso plagne) Plagne Centre 'improvements' have resulted in 4 lifts being removed.
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