I was watching a GoPro vid of my skiing (had pointed camera at skis) from my last trip and noticed that on right turns on a particularly steep section of a black run that my downhill (left) ski didn't look quite so stable.
Fine as I transitioned from the old uphill ski into the new downhill but, then as the short traverse before initiating the next turn, the left ski pivots slightly underfoot so, as seen from the camera, the tips swivel from side to side - maybe 2-3 times before presumable I develop sufficient pressure/stability that ceases the movement.
As the turns are relatively short and there is some separation (so essentially facing outside the turn), I wonder what I am not doing (or rather should be doing) that is creating what is probably instability in the turn.
I didn't feel unbalanced, nor did I feel remotely out of control, but the video demonstrated a consistent problem that was not mirrored in the left turns *remotely*
*Edit - actually, not entirely true on further examination!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 21-01-13 15:06; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Here's the vid....ignore the first 1.20 or so, unless you like chairlift views
Chasseur, I'd suggest its due to your weight not being sufficiently on the downhill ski, more on the uphill one, hence the reason the uphill ski looks 'solid' whilst the downhill one waves around. , very hard to see from a go pro video! Did anyone video you skiing towards them. The other clue is your downhill ski is a fair way 'behind' the uphill one on both turns....
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
The other clue is your downhill ski is a fair way 'behind' the uphill one on both turns....
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Also think you're not 'standing on' the outside ski enough. Looking at the good left turns, and your knees in particular, there is obvious 'long leg/short leg' going on, with the outside leg extended and firm, and the inside leg softer. On the more wobbly turns, that's not happening.
I'm a bit shy, from my position of considerable ignorance, to be posting a comment at all but, in my defence, part of the learning process with Inside Out is to observe fellow-skiers. I'm preparing to be flamed for the above, though. Except that kitenski has said much the same - there's safety in numbers!
Edit: on account of getting confused between right and left!
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 21-01-13 15:26; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
I really hesitate to suggest anything given my lack of expertise but.... some of those turns look very "sudden". Maybe try to be more progressive? (something we were practicing with Inside Out in Tignes in October)
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
kitenski, yeah - I think I've been conscious of the downhill ski being too far behind uphill - it has been mentioned before.
Only video I have was from same week, taken by an instructor.
blahblahblah, skiing on 175cm which is a step up, but it was 3rd week on these skis - Enduros.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
pam w, it was a steep black, though.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Chasseur, Can't really see much through that video from behind.
I think I'd concentrate on getting your weight onto the new downhill ski early and keeping it there. Have you done any drills (perhaps not on a black, but a gentle blue) eg try lifting the inner ski, and as a development try lifting it earlier and earlier in the turn......
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kitenski, yes - under instruction with a BASI instructor a little over a year ago (on a red). I understand the principle, probably need more practice/further instruction on some specific drills/actions.
I can picture what I do (or try) reasonably well, but definitely have a better feel for early pressure on left turns.
Thanks for input - appreciated
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Sort your pole plant out. You're a little bit back and very static in terms of flexion/extension of your legs through the turn. At 1.14 you lean into the hill when turning right - this is what makes the front of your left ski flap about. Working on your pole plant will improve all these things dramatically.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
No comments on the skiing as i aint an instructor, but nice vid, did you have a good time
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Difficult to tell from the videos but I'm looking at the one filmed by your instructor and on the steeper pitches it looks like your outside ski isn't gripping the snow cleanly when you are trying to carve. It looks like it is breaking away, making it more difficult for you to create a well rounded turn. There might be a a few things contributing to this: you're rushing the beginning of the turns (you can see this more clearly from the first video); rather than standing strongly on the outside ski to balance on it so it grips the snow you sometimes drop your hips backwards and twist them too much to the outside of the turn. Rather than giving you more edge angle, which is what you are trying to do at that point of the turn, you are reducing the edge angle and ending up with too much balance on the inside ski, reducing the performance of the outside ski even further.
To improve the grip of your outside ski you need to use your movement at the start of the turn to balance on it more purposefully. When you are balanced on it the more you tip it on to its edge the more it will carve a tighter turn. The tighter the turn the greater the forces, so you'll be able to tip it even more. This will give you much more control over the shape of your carved turns.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
WellySki0009, great, thanks How're things?
Raceplate, interesting. Pole planting is a definite weak area.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar wrote:
Difficult to tell from the videos but I'm looking at the one filmed by your instructor and on the steeper pitches it looks like your outside ski isn't gripping the snow cleanly when you are trying to carve. It looks like it is breaking away, making it more difficult for you to create a well rounded turn. There might be a a few things contributing to this: you're rushing the beginning of the turns (you can see this more clearly from the first video); rather than standing strongly on the outside ski to balance on it so it grips the snow you sometimes drop your hips backwards and twist them too much to the outside of the turn. Rather than giving you more edge angle, which is what you are trying to do at that point of the turn, you are reducing the edge angle and ending up with too much balance on the inside ski, reducing the performance of the outside ski even further.
To improve the grip of your outside ski you need to use your movement at the start of the turn to balance on it more purposefully. When you are balanced on it the more you tip it on to its edge the more it will carve a tighter turn. The tighter the turn the greater the forces, so you'll be able to tip it even more. This will give you much more control over the shape of your carved turns.
When did you turn into me
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w wrote:
Quote:
The other clue is your downhill ski is a fair way 'behind' the uphill one on both turns....
another go at inner tip lead?
yep doesn't go away does it!
Chasseur, very prominent, more so when your are not really turning much at all! your first action on initiation, is to push your inner ski forward & counter rotate.
Second vid, 2.00 mins to 2.25 mins give a good view of this action.
rob@rar, thanks - I can certainly see some evidence where the downhill ski seems to break away on the second video. Not sure why I've started twisting hips to the outside of the turn...over rotation maybe and/or dropping uphill arm back?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Masque wrote:
When did you turn into me
I've simply pointed out what I think are the key things that could be improved to raise his (already strong) performance. Boiled down to to 10 words: don't rush your turns and stand on the outside ski. Boiled down even further to just five key words: rate of movement and stance.
Chasseur, very prominent, more so when your are not really turning much at all! your first action on initiation, is to push your inner ski forward & counter rotate.
Second vid, 2.00 mins to 2.25 mins give a good view of this action.
Agreed - being lazy But also probably setting bad habits in place...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Chasseur wrote:
Not sure why I've started twisting hips to the outside of the turn...over rotation maybe and/or dropping uphill arm back?
At a guess it's the move you make when you are trying to create a bigger edge angle. It's not uncommon to see that change to the stance as skiers try to tip their skis up to high edge angles. Unfortunately it has the opposite effect to that intended. As a quick comparison have a look at this video, particular turn shape.
Raceplate, interesting. Pole planting is a definite weak area.
Pole-planting promotes timing, co-ordination and balance and a consistent pole-plant will improve your skiing quicker than anything else IMO. Once you have that in your armoury you can work on the finer nuances of different turn shapes, styles and conditions.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rob@rar, but is Chasseur, trying to do carved turns down a black run in the first video he posted???
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
kitenski, I was looking at the second video, but the same issues need to be fixed in both clips.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar, OK....I can see the difference (thanks again BTW), but not sure how to correct it. I do also recognise Raceplate's comment about
Quote:
You're a little bit back and very static in terms of flexion/extension of your legs through the turn
.
If I'm honest, I think my skiing has gone a bit backwards - lessons/coaching may be in order to sort out some of the confusion. Got any free slots at Hemel this week?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kitenski wrote:
rob@rar, but is Chasseur, trying to do carved turns down a black run in the first video he posted???
No! Only the first section, then more edge control on the steep as opposed to S shaped carves...
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Chasseur wrote:
If I'm honest, I think my skiing has gone a bit backwards - lessons/coaching may be in order to sort out some of the confusion. Got any free slots at Hemel this week?
Ironically Scott is currently running a Performance Clinic on Fore/Aft balance which would have been perfect, but obviously that's not so helpful now! We don't have anything else that would be suitable for you this week and we're off to Japan on Saturday so we're away for a couple of weeks. Send us an email and I can think about what might be suitable if you're looking to do some stuff in Feb or March.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rob@rar, I was playing so back on point. From 2:30 in the second vid. what do you see that could cause the prob? (hint) It's his low speed skiing that demonstrates it.
Not being an ass here as I really want to learn more or dismiss my own observation.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
rob@rar, was he running one yesterday by any chance? I did see an Inside Out instructor with a group and it did look like there was some focus on fore/aft balance.
Will definitely look at Feb/March. Thanks.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Masque wrote:
rob@rar, I was playing so back on point. From 2:30 in the second vid. what do you see that could cause the prob? (hint) It's his low speed skiing that demonstrates it.
There's a sag split of his feet, which is related to his hips being too countered. I don't know which causes the other, it's a bit chicken and egg. Both will be fixed by standing more purposefully on his outside ski at the start of the turn.
[Mark, apologies for talking about you rather than addressing my comments to you ]
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Chasseur wrote:
rob@rar, was he running one yesterday by any chance? I did see an Inside Out instructor with a group and it did look like there was some focus on fore/aft balance.
Will definitely look at Feb/March. Thanks.
Yeah, Scott was there all day running a Holiday Tune-Up and I arrived (to do a GCSE Assessment) just as you left. Was going to say hello but I missed you.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 21-01-13 16:46; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar, no apology needed - all useful and I do get most of the points....its just ironing them out consistently and replacing some bad habits with good ones.
rob@rar, I'm seeing a simple asymmetric body movement. Chasseur, inclines more on his right turns putting weight on his inner ski and angulates on his left turns keeping force in his downhill ski.
just watch.
edit: look at his head position too. His neck angle to keep his eyes level is different left and right compensating for the torso position.
Chasseur sorry to treat you in the third person and would like your thoughts too.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Masque, I don't think there are significant differences in left/right stance, certainly not worth dealing with compared to the overall picture. If you look at turn shape there is no significant difference between left and right turns. A bigger issues, IMO, is that his outside foot drops back (on both sides) making it more difficult to stand effectively on the outside ski.
rob@rar, Interesting . . . it would be fun to throw Chasseur down a hill with exercises from our different viewpoints . . Na it would just be fun to throw him down a hill
I wonder if the turn shape is just an outcome of Chasseur using differing 'balance' compensations to follow a desired path. Don't get me wrong, the last thing I want to address from my end is ski technique and I'm sure that you don't want to get involved in my view of bio-mechanical 'cause and effect'.
I'd love to have a 'real world' experiment with Chasseur and task him with exercises from both points of view . . . in this case, mine 'may' be the simpler one empirical research rules.
Be honest . . . you'd rather eat sick than have me on one of your courses
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rob@rar wrote:
Chasseur wrote:
Not sure why I've started twisting hips to the outside of the turn...over rotation maybe and/or dropping uphill arm back?
At a guess it's the move you make when you are trying to create a bigger edge angle. It's not uncommon to see that change to the stance as skiers try to tip their skis up to high edge angles.
For me it was the misconception that I always had to face the valley or pull the downhill ski back. I probably picked it up from videos like that klaus meyer youtube clip. Which is not surprising really when it has nearly 2m views and more than 1500 likes on youtube.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Masque, well if you're picking up the tab, old son, then you can throw me down whatever you like
I can see that it would be more fun throwing me down a mountain than yourself....as in the last time we were in the same resort
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Elston, +1 well maybe not that particular clip, but possibly others like it!
Chasseur, I'd imagine you feel the inside hip leading you into the new turn, specifically with your carving...
I was taught to visualise.... the feeling of having a powerful outside hip/lower trunk area, powering forward into and through the turn, the difference in grip and stability on the new outside ski is quite marked if you've been doing the opposite for a long time.
It's important to feel it from the hip area, rather than the outside shoulder/arm.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
How're things?
]
. . Na it would just be fun to throw him down a hill 
