 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi there
I've just renewed by annual insurance policy and used a different company than from last time. Before I took it out, I spoke to someone on the phone about winter sports cover and she said I was covered for 24 days in total. I asked her if this meant a maximum of 24 days in any winter holiday and she said "no, its 24 days of total winter sports holidays (i.e. 4 x 6 days). I asked her - what would happen if, for example, I had to make a claim on my second winter sports holiday and I was over the 24 days - how would the insurance company know that I had holidayed already. She says they have ways of finding out through lift passes etc.
All seems a bit bizarre to me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jb1970, yeah, we have a very good travel insurance policy courtesy of our credit card (and well tested I will add).
They were a little nonplussed by me questionning the 21 day limit on skiing, which only applies to the ski specific elements i.e. Lift pass refund. Would I be covered by the medical side if I had skied more than 21 days especially given that we live in the alps and don't generally go on holiday to go skiing?
Get a new policy. They will wriggle out if they can...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
Get a new policy. They will wriggle out if they can... |
I've already bought it. The policy seems ok and fairly standard but just a bit puzzled as to the 24 day thing - seems strange as to how they can "trace" the fact that maybe someone has been on previous ski holidays and potentially over the 24 day "limit"!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I don't believe they can trace lift passes etc. but what they would do is ask you directly what time you have spent skiing, to answer that question falsely would then be fraud a serious crime!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You should have a cancellation period for your insurance, if you can find someone better, invoke it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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jbob,
Ski passes are digitised and all sit on a shiny database somewhere.... ( www. skiline.cc ) is a way of retrieving personal data just for fun.
In austria the police can access this data to use as proof. Although all 7 day passes are not coded with a name it isn't too hard to use cameras (which are often built into some of the gates) to track someone down etc...
Also... my friend is an investigator for fraud and his first place to look for background is with social networking sites, any piccies posted, comments etc.. etc...
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Nearly all the insurance companies have a limit now, it's generally 17 days.
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Mine changes every year. 17 but pay more for 31, then everyone gets 31, then 17 again, then this year it's 21. All within an insurance year. I managed to frig the renewal date to be early November now, so 1 entire ski season and 1 entire MTBing season fits within 1 year. Was a PITA when the renewal date fell typically in the middle of the birthday bash!
Plus I have other insurances, ADAC cover, etc. too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jb1970,
Are you going to get more than 24 days in, or just curious about the devious methods of insurance companies?
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Best to be safe rather than sorry with insurance I think. Yes they may well not be able to find out if you have been >24 days (or whatever the limit is).....but I dont think it's a risk worth taking. If you have an accident on the slope the medical bills can be very costly, I speak from experience! It depends on your risk appetite I guess.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I would not risk it. The last thing I would want if I were unfortunate to be laid up in a French hospital with a serious injury, would be to be worrying about whether or not my insurance was going to cover me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| flangesax wrote: |
Also... my friend is an investigator for fraud and his first place to look for background is with social networking sites, any piccies posted, comments etc.. etc... |
One of the many reasons my social network profiles are locked down so that only my name and 'add me' is publically available (And no, I don't mean specifically insurance fraud, just that anyone I don't know can't see what I'm doing and where I've been)
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| Quote: |
just curious about the devious methods of insurance companies?
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this thread says rather more about the devious methods of their customers. There is a huge amount of insurance fraud and the companies are getting pretty clever, they share a lot of data etc. They can probably find out when you fly, for example. Cover for wintersports is expensive because even simple accidents can cost the companies a lot, so it stands to reason that cover for doing a lot of winter sports is more expensive than doing a little. I have 60 day trip limits and unlimited winter sports in the year. Cost best part of £200 (Snowcard). And that's medical only - no cancellation, no personal gear, etc etc.
I had already been in France since 18 December when I was injured in a piste collision on 9 January. As it happened I had only skied for 5 days in that time, because of looking after kids, doing airport transfers, being a generally selfless kind of grandmother etc etc but if I had had a policy with a 17 day limit I would have been feeling a lot worse lying on the couch with the doctor squinting at the X ray and saying he thought I'd fractured my pelvis. I have a season lift pass bought in November!
The sensible answer for someone who is happy to accept risk is not to have insurance - not to pay for it, but cut corners which could leave you stranded and risk being prosecuted for fraud. I decided to have top cover for medical, but to carry cancellation and stolen ski risks myself. This year that decision will cost me (though not as much as taking the holidays would have cost me) but I can afford that. As it happens the cost of my private medical treatment, ambulances etc would have been affordable too, and it won't cost much for someone to fly out and drive me home, in a couple of weeks, but this is a minor injury and I have somewhere to stay on locally. A big medical problem could cost many thousands of pounds.
You'd be daft to ski without third party cover.
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You know it makes sense.
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jb1970, do you do more than 24 days skiing in a year?
Seems to me that we all have to play fair with the insurance companies.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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How in hells name is a british insurance company going to track your lift movements? There are 1000's of ski resorts world wide, are they going to send a request to every resort asking how many days Fred Blogs has used your lifts this season? Some ski areas may have linked and online lift data but it's pretty isolated pockets. The logistics would be pretty tricky. I guess combined with say flight information they could narrow their search down. I can't imagine most lift companies bothering to respond to a foreign insurance company and whether they have a legal right to. Also what happens if you take part in winter sports without using a lift? x-country, sledging via taxi uplift, ski touring, ice climbing, snow shoeing, winter hiking, heli skiing (I wish), etc. Anyway if worried doing many ski days get say the austrian alpine club insurance, worldwide, no day limits, cover the essentials (rescue, repatriation, liability), cheap http://aacuk.org.uk/p-benefits. Carte neige offers similar I think.
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Poster: A snowHead
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our Annual Insurance is through RBS and is free. We have to inform them of skiing holiday dates before we go. Make sure there isnt that clause in your insurance in the small print.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Make sure there isnt that clause in your insurance in the small print.
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a good point. On our previous annual insurance (Ski Club) we had to ring for health clearance before every trip. Rather important small print.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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waynos, I went down the AAC route for emergency rescue. I have car breakdown cover, E111 and can just top up with a standard travel policy if I feel I need it. I've never claimed on an insurance policy in 25 years of extensive travel so could have saved myself a fair bit and covered any costs myself regarding loss and theft.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can recommend AAC too, very good value!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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alex99, In the past I've used BMC's insurance for climbing trips, but on a long ski trip where I just want to do a little climbing I don't want to pay £399 for my insurance.
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I know someone, not me, who buys insurance on holiday and then uses the 7 day no quibble refund. I am with BUPA who if I could scam I would , as they are useless at paying out.
I used my AMEX to pay for everything for/on the last trip and they seem to include super insurance, I was almost willing the plane to be delayed, so I could make a claim.
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| Quote: |
She says they have ways of finding out through lift passes etc.
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She's lying. What's she going to do, ring round every resort in the known universe and ask if they've heard of you? Don't be daft. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
She says they have ways of finding out through lift passes etc.
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She's lying. What's she going to do, ring round every resort in the known universe and ask if they've heard of you? Don't be daft. |
Exactly, and I doubt you were talking to the head of the IT department, more likely a sales assistant. Just go ski, stop worrying about everything.
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Just remember that 24 days' cover is not 4 times 6 days on skis. that includes flight or travel days, so actually 24 days is 3 times eight days of winter sports cover.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
She says they have ways of finding out through lift passes etc.
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She's lying. What's she going to do, ring round every resort in the known universe and ask if they've heard of you? Don't be daft. |
I buy junior points cards and pay cash, no details whatsoever are given. He would be impossible to trace.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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21 days on skis, 45 (iirc) days maximum per trip, any number of trips per year, on mine. travel days are part of that 45, but not 21.
also any amount of MTBing and numerous other sports I don't care about (particularly hole-in-one insurance), and no racing permitted unless it's say a slalom as part of a normal lesson.
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You know it makes sense.
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Chris Bish, I'm not sure that is the case either, I think it is skiing days. Well worth checking though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Alastair Pink, when I checked this with one of the companies, when I was shopping round for a new policy, they told me that going on a 7 day holiday with the primary purpose of winter sports counted as 7 days winter sports. No good telling them that you spent the Wednesday watching DVDs because the weather was terrible. This was a highly relevant issue for me, as I spend up to two months at a time in the mountains, but would only rarely ski 6 days in succession, let along 60. The answer was clear; if I spent X days in the French Alps in my apartment in a ski resort that would count as X days winter sports. Hence I had to find a policy with no limit on days skiing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| Alastair Pink, when I checked this with one of the companies, when I was shopping round for a new policy, they told me that going on a 7 day holiday with the primary purpose of winter sports counted as 7 days winter sports. No good telling them that you spent the Wednesday watching DVDs because the weather was terrible. This was a highly relevant issue for me, as I spend up to two months at a time in the mountains, but would only rarely ski 6 days in succession, let along 60. The answer was clear; if I spent X days in the French Alps in my apartment in a ski resort that would count as X days winter sports. Hence I had to find a policy with no limit on days skiing. |
Hmm, my view would be that unless the insurance company's interpretation of what constitutes a day's winter sports is clearly defined in the policy T's and C's then they would be on shaky ground legally if they were challenged about a travelling day being one of the "ski days" for example. Any SHs lawyers/insurance specialists feel free to comment... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| musher wrote: |
jb1970,
Are you going to get more than 24 days in, or just curious about the devious methods of insurance companies? |
I probably won't get more than 24 days but just curious as to how they would find out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Pamski wrote: |
jb1970, do you do more than 24 days skiing in a year?
Seems to me that we all have to play fair with the insurance companies. |
No just curious
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Insurance contracts are based on the assumption that you are disclosing all material facts (like how many days you have skied within the contract term). This wouldn't be the sort of 'accidental non-disclosure' which keeps cropping up in critical illness cases, but deliberate, so fraud.
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FAQ
