 Poster: A snowHead
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Whistler in British Columbia, Canada - now one of the world's most significant ski resorts, plunged into crisis during the 2004-5 winter by snow problems - is planning a $50 gondola link with adjacent Blackcomb. It's claimed that this gondola would be the world's highest above the ground, at 415 metres.
Whistler's operators, Intrawest Corporation - the world's largest ski resort developers - want to build the link to boost business, partly by attracting more summer sightseers. The resort also has its eyes on its Olympic ski racing events for the 2010 Winter Games.
The issues are explained in this report from the Globe and Mail.
If you know Whistler's skiing, what are your views on this project? If you don't know Whistler, would it make you more likely to ski there?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Goldsmith, I think that this subject has already been covered.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So has the resurrection of Christ, and the European single currency. I think that if we can get further facts out, it's worth broadening the discussion. The fact that a major Canadian newspaper is now on the case, and adding to the debate, is significant.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In skiing terms I reckon it would make very little difference - it would cut 15 to 20 mins off the time to swap mountains, but in 4 months skiing there last season I only did that once (during the monsoon season just to see if Blackcomb could possibly be any worse than Whistler - it was!!).
Would be quite a spectacular view (and quite scary if you don't like heights!!  ), and looking at the artist impressions it doesn't look like it'll have as much impact on the view as I thought it might.
On a technical point of view, as I mentioned previously, Whistler seems to get more than it's fair share of stormy windy days, would this be a problem for such a span?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On the last point, wind-resistance has been boosted by running some of the latest gondolas on two very broadly-spaced cables. Can't remember the data, but this configuration is capable of operating in quite strong winds.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Is this an example of a solution without a problem?
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Well, a scan of the article reveals that there are two key issues:
The technical issue
Whistler's ski area is low, in comparison with US resorts, with (as I understand it) a tendency of rain on the low runs. So, by bridging the two sectors at altitude they get around that problem.
The economic issue
Whistler wants/needs to attract more US business, so they want to be 'bigger and better'.
The key sentences in the article may be:
| Quote: |
| In the past four years, winter hotel-room bookings in Whistler have fallen by a cumulative 20 per cent, a decrease that has prompted the local tourism sector to call for a larger marketing budget. The biggest challenge is attracting U.S tourists, which account for about 40 per cent of the Whistler region's winter traffic, tourism industry officials say. |
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I found out something i didnt know about this proposed new Gondola at the weekend, in that the standard lift ticket might not cover it, you may have to pay extra. EG (i think) $10 on a day ticket, and something like $70 on a season pass. Hhhmmmm, wonder how well that will go over?
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If they do charge extra, that's a terrible idea, nobody will use it. If they don't charge extra, though, I think it's a pretty good idea. It's especially good for people staying in Creekside who want to ski Blackcomb - probably cutting 20 minutes off your commute to Blackcomb and 20 minutes off your commute back to Creekside.
Stuarth, you say that you only ever did one day on both mountains, and see this as a reason why the gondola is a bad idea? Don't you think that if the gondola were there (and at no extra cost), you would have spent alot more days on both mountains?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ponder wrote: |
If they do charge extra, that's a terrible idea, nobody will use it. If they don't charge extra, though, I think it's a pretty good idea. It's especially good for people staying in Creekside who want to ski Blackcomb - probably cutting 20 minutes off your commute to Blackcomb and 20 minutes off your commute back to Creekside.
Stuarth, you say that you only ever did one day on both mountains, and see this as a reason why the gondola is a bad idea? Don't you think that if the gondola were there (and at no extra cost), you would have spent alot more days on both mountains? |
No not really - I don't find that I really ever get bored with the terrain available on on mountain or the other - only did when the only slopes open were round the green chair. Didn't say it was a bad idea, just not that much of a help in terms of skiing more terrain.
I agree with the creekside thing - do you think that Intrawest doing more development in Creekside has anything to do with it?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ponder, and stuarth, I would think the Creekside development has a lot to do with it. The more they develop creekside, the more they need to keep blackcomb happy as such, and get good access from one to the other. Like stuarth, i cant see that i would use it very much, but i can imagine that the more traditional destination visitors might well. And also, would it be available for sightseeing only tickets, ie up the Whistler Gondola and over to Blackcomb that way for non skiers. I imagine that would be a popular idea, there are a lot of non skiers going up Whistler most days.
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stuarth and Robbie, I do agree that developing Creekside probably has alot to do with it. Which is nice for me, cause I can stay at a hostel in Creeksdie for $18CAD/night  Whenever staying there, it has always been a pain in the ass to get to Blackcomb, so this would definitely be a welcome change, especially as I prefer Blackcomb to Whistler. And I believe Dave Murray Downhill will be used as the Super-G course for the 2010 Olympics, and seeing as it empties into Creekside, they're probably going to be doing a fair bit of Olympics development in Creekside.
While I don't NEED to switch mountains mid-day, it certainly would be a nice option. It also seems like a good plan for the future in the very real possibility of global warming - Whistler/Blackcomb could be losing alot of it's lower terrain (some of it is quie nice too, such as the runs off Solar Coaster), which would mean that expanding the effective ski areas by connecting the higher terrain could be a very good idea.
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You know it makes sense.
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Going back to Davids points
I am not sure that they get round a problem, because I am not convinced that there was a problem to start with. Yes, the base elevation is low and yes it does rain there. That applies to both mountains, so transferring from one to the other does not better that. Typically, once you get up high there is no issue and, in my experience, there is enough on either mountain to keep anyone busy for a day, so you dont need to switch. Even last January, which was woeful in comparison to prior years, there was, in my view, no need for this gondola.
The American market does not fail to go to Whistler because there is no gondola between the two mountains. It will stay at home because of terrorism, a crap exchange rate, high gas prices, hassles at the border crossing (I imagine that pre 9/11 they just drove right on through)and a memory of poor conditions. Why fly from California or anywhere from the East Coast for the above when you can go to Utah/Colorado/California, more quickly, more easily and cheaper (or from the East Coast, over to Europe if they can be enthused to travel abroad). The Americans were Whistlers big market and the big draws were easy access, good snow higher up and a good exchange rate. None of those may be the perception anymore. There was a significant draw from the Pacific Northwest, by car, but that may be down due to price and delays at the border.
I agree the real issue is likely Creekside, the desire to expand that and the need to get skiers over to Blackcomb without having the hassle of getting on a bus and driving to the Blackcomb base. Also, probably, the need to be seen to be doing something bigger and better (which will placate-maybe- those local businesses suffering from the 20% reduction in skier visits) and that with the Olympics coming they maybe have access to cash to do it
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I don't know if anyone else has posted this (apologies if they have) but I understood from friends in Vancouver that one of the problems with US visitors was that the TV weather maps broadcast in the Pacific NW, simultaneously showed US temps in Farenheit, but Canadian (being metric) in Celsius, which made north of the border look blinkin' cold to the untutored (he say politely as poss.) American eye....and thus kept the casual visitor away.
Maybe an urban myth, but it sounds good.... , and perhaps the Intrawest marketing people need to talk to the US TV stations about their output!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Snowy, ski in and ski out is much nicer than taking a bus though!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ponder, there's not much in Whistler or Whistler creek that's truly ski-in and ski-out is there though? Most of it is ski and walk a bit in, possibly with a short bus trip.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This report from FirstTracksOnline has more details on the proposed Whistler-Blackcomb gondola link, with a listing of the technical specifications.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kramer, you know what I mean I consider a 1-5 minute walk from hotel to gondola basically ski in/ski out.
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FAQ
