Started another thread on here about lids and how much of a bellend they make you look and it's got me to thinking that, yah knwo what, the safety rating of the helmet trumps bellendedness. So I've dug around but only found one EN 1077 Class A Helmet (that's EN 1077A, not Class B though, aarrggghhh), and that's the Dainese GT Flex. The online shops often (read usually) don't state whether a lid is Class A or B, which is either misleading or underhand/devious, you can make your own mind up on that.
So, does anyone know of any other Class lids currently on the market?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
POC skull helmets are (even my sons pocito is).
With the exception of its notably crappy goggleclip, my POC Backcountry Receptor is possibly one of the best ski helmets you can get and isn't class A (see my previous point about ear coverage).
I've given "lesser" Giro helmets a hell of a beating over the years and they did the job (I think, oh wait I can't remember, oh! )
If you ski well enough you can wear whatever you like and not look that much of a bell-end (or care); if you're $**t nothing you put on your head will make you look any better
and now onto body armour certification I guess....
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stuarth wrote:
POC skull helmets are (even my sons pocito is).
With the exception of its notably crappy goggleclip, my POC Backcountry Receptor is possibly one of the best ski helmets you can get and isn't class A (see my previous point about ear coverage).
Tah for that but what are you basing that on? It might be comfy but so is a pillow.....
stuarth wrote:
....and now onto body armour certification I guess....
POC skull helmets are (even my sons pocito is).
With the exception of its notably crappy goggleclip, my POC Backcountry Receptor is possibly one of the best ski helmets you can get and isn't class A (see my previous point about ear coverage).
Tah for that but what are you basing that on? It might be comfy but so is a pillow.....
Nothing to do with comfy (except that it fits properly, and as it happens is reasonably comfortable). Not overly keen on lashing out $300 on something that just looks nice or is comfy...
I like that it reduces the twist on my head (not the same as falling on a hard road)
I like that it stops bits poking through
I like that it has clearly had quite a lot of thought and experience go into the design
I like that the things I didn't like I could talk to the technical director of POC about
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Great, that's all good but doesn't mean it will give you decent protection in a fall against a hard thing.......sure the technical director would like to see the helmet afterwards though.
without looking at the appropriate class definitions (but i will later) i dont know the difference, but i remember having a discussion with someone re motorcycle helmets a few years ago. They argued that racng helmets must be better as they protect riders going a lot faster etc etc. His argument was in some way put down when I and pthers explaind that motorcycle racers (with the exception of a few circuits iom, manx et al) arent likely to hit buildings or square curbs and will most likely never hit an coming car, so the differing requirements of a racers helmet and a road riders helmet are important.
pauses and goes off to. find type approval documentation for ski helmets.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Great, that's all good but doesn't mean it will give you decent protection in a fall against a hard thing.......sure the technical director would like to see the helmet afterwards though.
I'm just going to go skiing and take my chances - when I see the gaper in the motorbike helmet I'll know who it is.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
ansta1 wrote:
His argument was in some way put down when I and others explained that motorcycle racers (with the exception of a few circuits iom, manx et al) aren't likely to hit buildings or square curbs and will most likely never hit an coming car, so the differing requirements of a racers helmet and a road riders helmet are important.
Sorry, I just don't agree. You're mate didn't argue his point too well.
If you watch any level of circuit based bike racing you'll see that when a rider comes off they very often hit things (air fence/wall check out Nicky Hayden this year as an e.g.) or are hit by other things, most often their bike, sometimes even other riders, as happened to the genius that was Marco Simoncelli (RIP). You only have to look at any MotoGP or WSBK season to see numerous examples of this. You also mentioned true road races such as the IOM/Manx GP/NW 200 that have plenty of walls/bridges/kerbs but the racers there wouldn't simply use a separate better quality helmet JUST to do those more dangerous road races, they'd wear their 'standard' (contracted) race helmet because many of those same racers also race circuits (John McGuiness, Ian Hutchinson and the great Carl Fogarty in the 90's). So a racing lid has to cover you for all racing eventualities and it's for this reason racers helmets are developed at the track (or road based circuit). Subsequently the manufacturer releases those very same helmets for road riders to buy and wear, i.e. they are EXACTLY the same lids, save for a bit of custom paint now and then. They wouldn't do this if that subsequently meant the road rider would then get less protection from oncoming trucks. So your mate was right, sort of. It's not simply BECAUSE they go fast, it's because when they hit things (which is much less likely but does happen) they usually do it with more force because they (and those around them) are travelling at a significantly greater speed.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I just don't think you need the level of protection on the snow as you do on the road.
First of all - Speed:
A fast speed on skis/snowboard is a really slow speed on a bike. I'm sure some people will be able to rattle off some crazy stats of how fast they've been in the snow, but in general, most people ride the fraction of the speed a motorbike; especially through trees and areas with other obstacles.
Second:
Surely even hard packed snow is softer than tarmac.
Third:
There are no cars on the slopes.
Another though:
If you think snow sports helmets are bad then what do you think about cycle helmets? They are even thinner and lighter; and those guys have roads and vehicles to contend with!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
RichTraff wrote:
If you think snow sports helmets are bad then what do you think about cycle helmets? They are even thinner and lighter; and those guys have roads and vehicles to contend with!
I think they're even less fit for purpose tbh. You can easily go 30mph+ on a pushbike and, like you said, have to deal with cars, trucks, kerbs, the lot. They offer very little protection as they stand. Just look at BMX (pipe/park) lads though, they usually wear full face lids because for them it's cool and acceptable but they also better protection into the bargain. And you could argue they're not going to hit something as hard as a road rider because they're not going as fast and don't have traffic/road furniture avoidance issues. So why don't road riders wear them? Not cool.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 8-01-13 20:39; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
SiPieFace, but they are generally not hard objects such as a 90 degree concrete curb at angles near or opposite the direction of travel, and air fences and the like offer a completely different impact profile. Impacts as tragic as Marco Simoncelli's, which i had the unfortunate position to witness are extremely rare and in reality he could have been wearing a helmet 10 times as strong, given the number of local, club, national and international races that go on.
Also I did not say that a road racers helmet is better or worse in a real road accident just that they may be different whilst still meeting the appropriate acu or other requirement. Also the helmets that professional top flight riders wear are not the same as you and i can buy off of the shelf, far from it.
My main point is classification things like helmet safety is to a degree arbitery minimum standards. EN this, CE(n) that, BSI, ACU.
so what does A give you over B when it comes to CEN1077. Dont know yet, but one of the CEN standards appears to be around intrusion (ski pole or branch) are the examples cited.
Anyone know if anyone w skiled by a ski pole throught their helmet?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
SiPieFace,
No Motorcycle helmet is going to give you 100% safety for your swede
No pedal cycle helmet is either, and no ski helmet will either.
Its all about reducing the risks, and how much you PERSONALLY want to reduce the risks by.
When i ride on road or a track day, i wear leathers ( a good make cost a fortune, spidi ) and a good lid, shoei or Arai. However on the straight ast Snetterton i was doing around 155mph when i started braking ( and pooing my pants!!!!!!!!! ) and on the road i do 70-80 ( in a national or on motorway )
Skiing i am not going anywhere near as fast, so my helmet does not need to be as high a standard as my m/cycle lid.
I dont ski in leathers or wear a spine protector either. Its a personal choice.
Mind you, i reckon you would get some looks going down a black run in full bike leathers, sparky knee sliders and an Arai lid on
And you quote Super SIC, it wouldn't have mattered what Marco was wearing unfortunately, i am sure he had the best available, it still didn't save him. So really do not get to worked up about ski helmet safety factors/standards. All of the reliable well known makes will give you enough ( enough means better than nothing in my book )
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ansta1 wrote:
so what does A give you over B when it comes to CEN1077. Dont know yet, but one of the CEN standards appears to be around intrusion (ski pole or branch) are the examples cited.
I dug around and found that noted about the difference between the two standards "This has resulted in two classes of helmets, class A and class B. Compared to class B, class A protects a larger area of the head and offers a higher degree of protection from penetration.".
Timbobaggins, you've made my point better than i did (long, bad day and still more to do).
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
SiPieFace wrote:
So why don't road riders wear them?
Because if they did they wouldn't have to worry about a fractured skull since they would already have died of heat exhaustion.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Timbobaggins wrote:
And you quote Super SIC, it wouldn't have mattered what Marco was wearing unfortunately
Totally agree. But My point was not that his helmet would have saved him (nothing in modern tech could have) it was that riders hit other riders. Look at Yasutomo Nagai (hit by his own bike), Dajira Kato (hit wall), Shoya Tomizawa (hit by other riders), Craig Jones (hit by another rider). All these riders were killed by hitting or by being hit by something.
And you quote Super SIC, it wouldn't have mattered what Marco was wearing unfortunately
Totally agree. But My point was not that his helmet would have saved him (nothing in modern tech could have) it was that riders hit other riders. Look at Yasutomo Nagai (hit by his own bike), Dajira Kato (hit wall), Shoya Tomizawa (hit by other riders), Craig Jones (hit by another rider). All these riders were killed by hitting or by being hit by something.
So what are you worried about, if you don't want to RISK injury don't take part in a RISK sport.
You have just proved the point Ansta and everyone else is trying to make.
You seem to be getting too worried about what is potentially a small risk
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Timbobaggins wrote:
So what are you worried about, if you don't want to RISK injury don't take part in a RISK sport.
You have just proved the point Ansta and everyone else is trying to make.
You seem to be getting too worried about what is potentially a small risk
You could be right, I've not been down the slopes for a few years. I wouldn't say worry though as I'm not trying to stop the risk, it can't be done, I'm simply trying to reduce the risk by getting the best lid around as most people buying lids are attempting to do......otherwise why do it? To look cool?
You get this to, right? Otherwise why buy Spidi's and an Arai instead of a 90's (Class B, ahem) Laser and some pink wiggly-worm Fieldsheer's.
After all it is free
After all it is free
SiPieFace wrote:
Timbobaggins wrote:
And you quote Super SIC, it wouldn't have mattered what Marco was wearing unfortunately
Totally agree. But My point was not that his helmet would have saved him (nothing in modern tech could have) it was that riders hit other riders. Look at Yasutomo Nagai (hit by his own bike), Dajira Kato (hit wall), Shoya Tomizawa (hit by other riders), Craig Jones (hit by another rider). All these riders were killed by hitting or by being hit by something.
But did these guys die as a result of head injury that could have been avoided with a different or better helmet?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
ansta1 wrote:
But did these guys die as a result of head injury that could have been avoided with a different or better helmet?
Not my point, please refer to:
SiPieFace wrote:
Totally agree. But My point was not that his helmet would have saved him (nothing in modern tech could have) it was that riders hit other riders. Look at Yasutomo Nagai (hit by his own bike), Dajira Kato (hit wall), Shoya Tomizawa (hit by other riders), Craig Jones (hit by another rider). All these riders were killed by hitting or by being hit by something.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Anyway, back on topic............does anyone know of any Class A (i.e. the better quality/protecting) Ski helmets on the market?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
SiPieFace, did you read the link i posted early on, which seems to indicate that the later, but not fully accepted snell standard offers higer protection? Did you want cen1077a for a particular reason or did you want the most protective ski helmet, i am not being argumentative here on purpose btw.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
SiPieFace wrote:
Anyway, back on topic............does anyone know of any Class A (i.e. the better quality/protecting) Ski helmets on the market?
POC Skull Comp. I like mine, but it does run hot as no venting.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
And the POC Skull X which does have a bit of venting.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ansta1 wrote:
SiPieFace, did you read the link i posted early on, which seems to indicate that the later, but not fully accepted snell standard offers higer protection? Did you want cen1077a for a particular reason or did you want the most protective ski helmet, i am not being argumentative here on purpose btw.
Sorry, missed the post. Nope, just want the best lid, don't mind where it comes from. You're spot on, the Snell test is even more rigorous than CEN testing, issue is that over here in the UK you just can't Snell approved lids, at least not that I've found. We once had a world renowned testing procedure called the BSI (British Standards Institute) and the kite mark which that bore really did mean something back in the day. It's pretty much gone now and we have to contend with the less stringent (as I read it) CEN system. Snell indeed does the biz, just not over here.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
SiPieFace, I never realised that there were so few Class A helmets. I'm presuming it's because most leave the area round the ears open though.
Sweet do a "Corsa" race version of the Rooster thats class A (and comes below the ears), while the rooster is B
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mosha Marc wrote:
Sweet do a "Corsa" race version of the Rooster thats class A
SiPieFace, did you read the link i posted early on, which seems to indicate that the later, but not fully accepted snell standard offers higer protection? Did you want cen1077a for a particular reason or did you want the most protective ski helmet, i am not being argumentative here on purpose btw.
Sorry, missed the post. Nope, just want the best lid, don't mind where it comes from. You're spot on, the Snell test is even more rigorous than CEN testing, issue is that over here in the UK you just can't Snell approved lids, at least not that I've found. We once had a world renowned testing procedure called the BSI (British Standards Institute) and the kite mark which that bore really did mean something back in the day. It's pretty much gone now and we have to contend with the less stringent (as I read it) CEN system. Snell indeed does the biz, just not over here.
and should have said i grew up less than a mile from the bsi main testing facility in the uk in the eighties!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
SiPieFace,
Just out of interest as to your helmet requirements and the skiing you're doing; are you on the Freeride world tour, world-cup circuit, extreme ski-mountaineering or something?
but more importantly does he have hit booster strap on the inside or outside?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Mosha Marc wrote:
rob@rar, a couple of lessons should cover it then
Nah, just the tips will do it
I like the Rooster, but the Corsa is silly money.
After all it is free
After all it is free
stuarth wrote:
SiPieFace,
Just out of interest as to your helmet requirements and the skiing you're doing; are you on the Freeride world tour, world-cup circuit, extreme ski-mountaineering or something?
World Cup Circuit, but I don't like to brag...........
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
but in summary
cen1077 a or b protection
astm 2040 more protection
snell rs-98 best protection
Some interesting stuff on there. And to back up your thoughts I found this from Canada Snowboard which is the best explanation of the various testing procedures I've found. The clouds are now beginning to shift.
The devil is in the detail.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
SiPieFace,
Please let me know what your final choice of lid will be, i am intrigued
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
)
