 Poster: A snowHead
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...according to this on Travel Mole  - A ski airport too.
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Ryanair flight 'nearly crashed'
A Ryanair flight from Manchester Airport almost crashed when its pilots tried to make up lost time.
This was according to German magazine Der Spiegel, which reported the findings of an investigation into the incident in September by Germany's air safety officals.
It said pilots tried a new manoeuvre when they came into land at Memmingen Airport in Bavaria because of time pressures.
Investigators said the Boeing 737, with 141 people on board, was at one point only 150m above the ground, despite being several miles from the airport.
Pilots were alerted by a warning sound in the cockpit and "barely succeeded to pull the jet up", according to the report.
A spokesman for Ryanair denied the flight had almost crashed.
"Ryanair flight FR3214 (Manchester - Memmingen) was on its final approach to the runway in Memmingen when they encountered unexpectedly high tail-winds," said a statement from the airline.
"The crew decided to initiate a go-around procedure in-line with Ryanair operating policy. After they had already commenced the go-around, the aircraft warning systems sounded and the crew completed their go-around, landing normally a short time later.
"This incident was reported to the Irish Aviation Authority on September 24, and is the subject of an ongoing investigation." |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bode Swiller, Much like the Spanish incidents during the summer it will be dismissed as media drivel by the relevant safety authorities when the investigation is complete.
They are no worse/better than any other major European airline who all have to conform to the same EU safety standards.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Close only counts in Hand Grenades and Horseshoes...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A high tail wind component on finals is a bit of a puzzle. Generally, an approach should be into wind.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I won't use Ryanair as a matter of principle. I wouldn't wee wee in Michael O'Leary's mouth even if his teeth were on fire. Vile man.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Lenny Law wrote: |
| I won't use Ryanair as a matter of principle. I wouldn't wee wee in Michael O'Leary's mouth even if his teeth were on fire. Vile man. |
The poor lad is only trying to make a living.....
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What achilles said. At least for Memmingen, which is still rolling countryside and not real mountains. Innsbruck is different though I think (I've only ever landed one way and taken off the other).
Condor Airlines is another that seems to have issues. Probably not in the UK media, but certainly in the German news. They've had a number of A319 landings recently at Cologne with smoke in the cabin or cockpit. AFAIK, cockpit and cabin air con are fed off different engines? I think one was reported as potential crash, and pilot having just sufficient conciousness to do the brakes etc. (computers do much of the work).
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^ is the air con not coin operated? Maybe someone didn't have the right money?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lenny Law, He is one of the nicest individuals you will ever meet in the flesh. I taught both his boys to ski last year and Mr o’Leary was a gentleman . Don’t let the persona fool you! He was helpful, pleasant and despite taking a lot of abuse from other Parents he just smiled and sucked it up.
His airline is no frills no messing but cheap. I fly with them regularly and never have an issue with extra charges or luggage as a play by the rules.
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Won't fly with them on principle. My wife was flying with our 2 children. One needed the loo and she asked one of the cabin staff if they would keep an eye on the other one in the meantime. The response was something along the lines of, "Do i look like i do childcare?"! No, judging by your uniform it looks like you're supposed to care for the safety of all the passengers on your flight, be they adults or children.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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grazzenger, BA/VIRGIN/EASYJET.LUFTANSA/UNITED ETC That answer could have come from any one
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Don't forget pilots are humans too, they never deliberately put their own lives in danger regardless of having passengers on board. Mistakes sometimes happen both by pilots and what the instruments are reading/saying but pilot training is long and hard for a reason. I find it very hard to believe a pilot was deliberately coming into land with a tailwind but sudden changes/wind shears do occur.
Personally I don't think Ryanair vary at all versus all other airlines on safety policy as lot of it is mandated by authorities plus no airline wants a crash risk.
. grazzenger, did you not pay the crèche supplement up front 
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| achilles wrote: |
| A high tail wind component on finals is a bit of a puzzle. Generally, an approach should be into wind. |
Maybe that was how they were trying to save time 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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espri, extremely unlikely, you can't be on final approach to an airfield like that without air traffic having told them how to fly in, the pilots can't chose their own route at that stage of a flight.
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Poster: A snowHead
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You did but it hit the UK press today and I said "nearly crashed" and you said nearly crashed - there is a difference.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Don't know how true it is, but we were informed by an easy jet pilot, after he almost overshot the runway at Bournemouth and had to pull up and come around again, that it was lucky we weren't flying with RyanAir as they predominantly land on autopilot !!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've/ we've/ they've flown BA, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, Easyjet, Norwegian, Thomson,... and never been spoken to like that when requesting the same thing or anything similar. Easyjet are brilliant with kids and with accepting lots of the clutter, ie buggies, car seats, etc without a question or a supplement. Having flown with many airlines all over the world with business and with family spread widely too, it is ONLY with Ryanair that I've felt like an inconvenience. It appears that customer service does have a price...
Ah, the creche supplement, of course...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| espri wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| A high tail wind component on finals is a bit of a puzzle. Generally, an approach should be into wind. |
Maybe that was how they were trying to save time |
Well, selection if runway direction is normally dictated by the airport - though the captain could have queried the announcement. Don't know enough of the circumstances to be really critical - it just seems odd that there was a tail wind.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Some opinions may appear more 'balanced' and 'reasonable' than others, but like arseholes, everybody has one. Quote from Axsman not about Stanton, but felt it applicable.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Browsing PPrune over the last few days has been interesting.
This doesn't have to be a Ryanair specific issue at all, but it certainly seems likely that the plane was in an unstabilised approach, where they should have gone around 500 feet higher, and that either just before or after the decision to go around was taken, the plane's terrain alerts went off. Calculations suggest that another 20 seconds on the same trajectory would have led to what is charmingly known as "Controlled Flight Into Terrain".
There has been some argument about exactly when these alerts went off, but certainly the desire to make up 25 minutes lost time, by requesting and using a different runway direction to other planes landing which then led to a visual approach, and a rather high approach speed (and I mean airspeed, not groundspeed btw) , may have been a significant factor.
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| stoat of the dead wrote: |
| ........but certainly the desire to make up 25 minutes lost time, by requesting and using a different runway direction to other planes landing which then led to a visual approach, and a rather high approach speed (and I mean airspeed, not groundspeed btw) , may have been a significant factor. |
Ouch.
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Stetsons and Cowhide boots have been spotted occasionally in certain Irish crewrooms, but tbh this could happen at ANY airline there is always one still lurking. Don't forget pikeyair is still one of the largest airlines in Europe and they have a pretty good safety record compared to the likes of Air Farce.
The only I hate about pikeyair is the way they treat their crew AND passengers but it is all about supply and demand.
500' agl is the minimum for abandoning a visual approach, the 737's lowest height was 450' agl, hardly 'nearly crashing'. The height loss between 500' and 450' was prob down to spool up of the engines, it doesn't react immediately you know 
Sounds like a classic case of 'pressonitis' with a huge loss of situational awareness by the crew but then what do I know, I'll let you armchair experts/daily whail readers carry on.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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' it was lucky we weren't flying with RyanAir as they predominantly land on autopilot !!!!'
If they'd been on auto (Cat 3 autoland, as opposed to autopiliot), they wouldn't have overshot 
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Only once have I been on board when a flight has had to go around. A bunch of us were coming back from skiing in St Anton, I think. We were flying Innsbruck to Manchester and there was a tremendous cross wind when we landed. First time we seemed to make a normal aproach but we were soon over the grass at the side of the runway and the engines wound up again. Someone said that the plain behind actually made it onto the grass before aborting. Not sure I believe that. Everyone went very quiet as we did a complete circuit round Manchester. The second time we seemed to hang over the runway for ages at perhaps 10m and then, when the time was right, bang! Down we went - three wheels straight on the ground and staying there. Everyone clapped.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Lenny Law wrote: |
| I won't use Ryanair as a matter of principle. I wouldn't wee wee in Michael O'Leary's mouth even if his teeth were on fire. Vile man. |
I hate when people say things like this -Ryanair has allowed vast number of people to travel and take holidays, etc, mostly at very very cheap prices. As long as you adhere to the rules and regulations, you are fine. Ryanair actually have the newest fleet of planes of any european carrier.
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An English version of the interim report on this incident is available here (I haven't been able to find a link to the German original).
I don't know that the windspeed had much to do with the problem. Rather that flying this (possibly) more difficult approach, involving a 180° turn, the crew didn't get the plane lined up on the runway in time. As stoat of the dead has said, it seems the pilot left going around till rather late but did correct the error in time.
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You know it makes sense.
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| altis wrote: |
| Only once have I been on board when a flight has had to go around. A bunch of us were coming back from skiing in St Anton, I think. We were flying Innsbruck to Manchester and there was a tremendous cross wind when we landed. First time we seemed to make a normal aproach but we were soon over the grass at the side of the runway and the engines wound up again. Someone said that the plain behind actually made it onto the grass before aborting. Not sure I believe that. Everyone went very quiet as we did a complete circuit round Manchester. The second time we seemed to hang over the runway for ages at perhaps 10m and then, when the time was right, bang! Down we went - three wheels straight on the ground and staying there. Everyone clapped. |
We had a go around coming back from L2A at Easter, Easyjet into Birmingham. It was a bit stormy and we came in a bit fast and high so shouldn't have surprised anyone looking out of the windows to hear the engines spool back up, certainly my 8 year old figured out what was going on as soon as the power went back on. Though it was rather entertaining listening to some of the passengers once they were safely on the ground! Pretty sure at least half of them were busy texting the Daily Fail or their lawyer about their near death experience as soon as they got into terminal!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ok for the last time.
This can happen at any airline, the reason they got in the press is that they set off tHe ground proximity warning system GPWS. This was set off because the aircraft was not in the full landing configuration, yes they had gear down but not landing flaps, if they had landing config set no GPWS alarm would of gone off !
The crew came in too high and fast, a strong wind blowing them through base leg did not help and was compounded by the 10 knot tailwind on final approach, the 737 can land with a 15 kt tailwind though.
Basically they lost their grip on energy management of the descent and approach and their situational awareness was poor but they abandoned the approach. Happens all the time the only reason you know about this approach was the GPWS went off and that is a mandatory operational report to the relevant authorities.
Hth
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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'Err do you have any idea what you are talking about, you can still be hot and high for an autoland '
A bit yes, I'm Technical Director for a company that provides internet briefing for Pilots and Airlines
You a pilot then?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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and it would appear that there's a few pilots who aren't as clued up as maybe they should be :lol
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've flown hundreds of missions on the computer. Crashed many times. Happens to the best of us.
"If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going" was a favorite from the Air Force pilots I worked with.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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martinm,
Mmhh... current pilot vs desk jockey overseeing internet training material...
I know which one I choose...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Geno wrote: |
"If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going" was a favorite from the Air Force pilots I worked with. |
Kind of strange if you mean the Royal AF as they got to fly two of the best of their time(s) and genre in the VC-10 and L-1011, neither made by Boeing , and most pilots would agree that both 1-11 and Trident were 'better' than their Boeing oppos but just werent 'made in America'.
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As a passenger I've had 2 fly pasts at Gatwick (BA) before landing on the 3rd following a warning that the wheels weren't down and locked, the 2nd was so the tower could see if they looked OK. We landed with fire engines and blue lights following us down the runway. I also had 3 aborts at Dinard (Ryanair) in fog once. I saw the ground each time from near the back but the guys up front obviously couldn't.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 11-12-12 21:50; edited 1 time in total
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Kruisler, I didn't mention training! It's the real stuff that pilots need to fly. It's up to them how well they do their bit 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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anyway, i never said I could fly, just replying to2planks who seems to think he's some sort of God (maybe make a good MP one day?)
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Actually, off topic-ish - now we have an expert around, anyone see the program about the runway at the North Pole last night?
The plane they used had engines above the wings - I've been wondering why - summat to do with keeping them away from the snow?
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FAQ
