 Poster: A snowHead
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Speaking to a Pal who works as a senior manager for S&R that she is looking for another job as soon as possible as she thinks S&R is in big trouble, with the company who owns them looking to get rid of the shops ASAP.
No doubt they didn't have their best season over the summer but worrying news for the employees. Used to love S&R when I lived down south, shame about the news.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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is this actually news or just staff gossip?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Take from it what you will, she isn't on the retail floor if that's what you mean. She seems well placed to have a balanced view on the company but she seems convinced enough to be looking elsewhere with some urgency.
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well the sudden unexplained departure .of a CEO isn't usually the sign of a business in rude health and an insider can pretty easily tell how much stock is shifting....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think there is a very obvious shift evident in their catalogue to on - line sales this year. I think allot of the European competitions is hammering them on hardware prices on line and they are having to react to it.
I am guessing here but a very stripped back shop model will be their future and the CEO probably did not like the idea and walked before it was implemented.
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Fattes13, Think you've hit the nail on the head, looking for my new Armarda TSTs and the all the UK shops were give or take a few quid the same price of around £500, quick look on the net found an Armada dealer in Czech republic (with websites localised for pretty much every other EU country that likes skiing) 20% cheaper, the shops in the UK have competition from across the EU and lots of those competitors have their bricks and mortar presence in lower cost economies.
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S&R sell ski jackets for well over a grand....
I think I see the problem 
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Were S+R actually participating at the London ski show this year?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boutique shops selling at premium prices to a transient holiday customer base about as far away from mountains as you can get, hey what's not to like! 
Elsewhere here someone was telling me it was a great business model and that's where the money is, perhaps not it seems!
I feel for the staff but I'm afraid I won't mourn their passing if that's what's about to happen, I just hope Ellis Brigham's are on a better financial footing despite having shops within shouting distance of high ground ... or maybe it's because, who knows!
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| shoogly wrote: |
| S&R sell ski jackets for well over a grand.... |
Aye, but not to anyone north of the border - too many mountains and regular mountain users doncha know! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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roga, They're not quite boutique, a specialist retailer yes and always a little more Guildford than Gateshead about their postioning. But bigger and more mass market retailers than them have hit the skids - JJB limped on for some time with its shellsuits & trainers in massively oversized stores. They seemed to have diversified into more offerings with Cycle surgery & Runners whatsit but if there's one lot of people geekier than skiers about kit it's Mamils & they've got internet behemoths like Wiggle and Chain Reaction to buy from as well as a fine tradition of LBSs and a decent "chain" competitor in Evans. So I question how successful the cycle business has been despite the Cav/Wiggo effect. Their ski range is frankly poor this year IMO- very much mass market, very little for the enthusiast aside from some gems like the Blizzards.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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S&R prices regularly seem to be more for the same product than elsewhere (even in the UK). Need to get in line with the rest of the market.
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I dont think they are financially in trouble yet, I am guessing the direction that the board want to take is different and not everyone on the board agrees.
Their presence at the SkiShow was much reduced and they were sending inquiries to one of their stores.
Just have a look at their catalogue this year, reduced in size and lots of ques to send you to their web site. The likes of Sportif / Ski-Conrad / and now Sport Persuit are killing them on their big ticket items.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Fattes13 wrote: |
Just have a look at their catalogue this year, reduced in size and lots of ques to send you to their web site. The likes of Sportif / Ski-Conrad / and now Sport Persuit are killing them on their big ticket items. |
The reduction in catalogue size could be as a result of their suppliers being unwilling to stump up the cash to pay for it, a major supplier has to stump up some serious cash to pay for their section in S&R catalogue.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, they're boutique to me but I'm more Glenmore than Guilford so maybe that explains it 
Fattes13, haven't seen their catalogue but EBs looks like business as usual.
Totally agree about places like Sport Conrad, chalk and cheese in terms of range (and usually price!)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Oh and Sport Conrad have the better catalogue too 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They do price match though so for me a good way to order in a couple of sizes and then just pay cheapest online price
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They might not be everyones cup of tea, but I'd miss them if they go tits up.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well the private equity-backed MBO was concluded just over two years ago. Here's the release from back then:
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The Management team led by Managing Director Dion Taylor has achieved its
ambition of acquiring Snow+Rock Sports Ltd, which includes CycleSurgery and
Runners Need. The successful completion of the buyout is backed by LGV Capital
(LGV) and has been supported by Andrew Brownsword, the previous owner, who is
leaving a significant investment in the business.
Dion Taylor said: "For my team and me it is the realisation of an ambition we
have held for a number of years. Andrew Brownsword and Jeremy Hancock helped us
to grow the group to its current marketleading position, but now it is time for
the management to become stakeholders in the business and to continue to drive
it forward. Our three brands of Snow+Rock, Cycle Surgery and Runners Need are
the leading specialist retailers in their sectors. With the support of LGV we
have developed a roll out plan which will bring our brands to a wider audience,
whilst staying true to our principles of providing premium retail environments
along with unrivalled customer service and the best products available. The
management team have invested their own funds and have the financial backing of
LGV, a leading provider of private equity. LGV has a 20 year history of
successfully backing management teams in the consumer, leisure, services and
healthcare sectors. Commenting on the investment, Steven Phillips, a Director at
LGV, said: "We are very excited to back a first class management team to
continue the growth of the Snow+Rock Group. By combining three leading
specialist outdoor sports retailers in Snow+Rock, Cycle Surgery & Runners Need,
we believe the business offers consumers a compelling proposition. The business
is uniquely positioned to take advantage of growth in its key markets,
particularly in cycling and running. LGV has a strong track record of working
with consumer facing businesses and we are looking forward to supporting the
management team as they develop the business further."
About Snow+Rock Group:
Snow+Rock was established in 1982 and now encompass specialist sports and
leisure retail brands including CycleSurgery and Runners Need operating from 35
retail outlets and three e-commerce websites.
About LGV Capital: LGV Capital is a well-established private equity firm
operating in the UK mid-market and part of Legal & General Group. LGV`s
investment focus is on backing highly motivated management teams in buyouts and
buy-ins of businesses with attractive market positions and strong cash flows.
Sectors where LGV makes investments on behalf of its clients include consumer,
leisure, healthcare and services. LGV has been particularly active in the
consumer and leisure sector in recent years, having made investments in such
companies as Vue Cinemas, The Club Company, Tragus, South Lakeland Caravans and
Liberation Pub Group.
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Private equity guys set highly ambitious targets, mainly because they use debt (a la Glazers and Man U) and the company instantly becomes highly geared. But trying to grow strongly in the current environment is a tough ask. So, miss a few quarter's numbers by a few % and the pressure is really on. They tend to take fairly drastic action to knock things back on the path and staff are bound to get freaked out by it, especially when they see long-standing senior management go (and Dion wasn't the first) and poorly performing stores closed. The ski show was apparently a loss-maker for the last few years so no surprise at all that they down-sized to a display. I don't think people like LGV are short term and they'll still want to see a return so talk of S+R's demise are well off the mark in my opinion. Got to also remember that shedding heads is best done by people leaving voluntarily so a bit of staff unrest may have been caused deliberately.
Also there's no smoke without fire - the latest upheaval at S+R coincided with the decision by Sports Direct to go big into the wintersports game by turning over space in many of their 395 stores to Ski Warehouse (an acquisition they completed last week). Maybe a factor, who knows?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Get down there and buy something to help preserve this institution. Staff should be more willing to help after cunning management ruse about probable shop closures, get out there and sell sell sell.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 8-12-12 10:58; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yea, we need new goggles and helmets for this season and the S & R in Bristol was our first thought, then you start looking on the web,but its always nice to
be able to go to the store and get some good advice...will see what the guys say when we pop in this weekend 
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BIL was in S&R last week trying some kids ski boots on for his son.
Assistant went to get some sizes from the stockroom and 25 mins elapsed, walking past BIL 3 times to serve other customers.
BIL asked politely WTF was going on and assistant made up some lame excuse rather that just admitting he was very busy and had forgotten.
BIL walked on principle.
Decathlon 1 S&R 0
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S and R weren't at the NEC this year - yet their main competitor EB was, that has to be a big fail...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Without hard, confirmed numbers, this thread may be bordering on libel?
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Snow and Rock is a very good company and any rumours are just that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
The reduction in catalogue size could be as a result of their suppliers being unwilling to stump up the cash to pay for it, a major supplier has to stump up some serious cash to pay for their section in S&R catalogue. |
Perhaps suppliers are wanting cash up front for stock too. Anyone know? Usually a sign of a soon to be ex-retailer.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sat 8-12-12 16:23; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Scomber, You've spoilt it again.
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Cynic, sorry. Should be writing, dossing on SH instead 
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You know it makes sense.
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I don't understand this thread, a quick check online and you'll find their annual filed accounts which show they've been increasing their profit year on year (granted a very small increase in the last few years but still an increase). They're making £4 million on £52 million turnover which seems reasonable to me for a retail outfit. Hardly on the rocks.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Go to duedil.com, register (v. easy) and put in S + R. The problem will become evident. Net profit of £4mill. 2010, down to 100k 2011. Turnover down 24% in the same period.
The issue of EU competition is quite a big one, I think. We are a small indy online shop selling off-piste safety gear, and we can occasionally (thankfully rarely) find some of our bigger ticket items in the EU cheaper than we can buy it for from our suppliers! In that situation it's impossible to compete on price. Hopefully people still value product knowledge and customer service, and that we can compete on. I think part of the variance with the EU may be relatively temporary, due to a weaker pound when prices for this year were set. We're certainly feeding back to our suppliers on this issue though, but whether they take any notice of a small company like us is a different issue!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Callum001, You'll be the S&R Finance Director then? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Callum001 wrote: |
| Hardly on the rocks..... |
totally agree.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| albob wrote: |
| S and R weren't at the NEC this year - yet their main competitor EB was, that has to be a big fail... |
they never do NEC.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimastaaah, haha I wish!
evski, The Internet is full of conflicting info, just seen an article saying profits dropped 13% in 11/12 from 10/11 so that would a £520k drop to £3.48 million correct?
Who knows?!??(),)(6;:6)?),());.(,7!£768(?&0
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The figs on Duedil suggest pre tax profit of £5.6 mil in 2010, dropping to about £100k loss in 2011. Post tax for the two years, profit of £3.6 mil 2010, dropping to 100k in 2011. However, I'm no accountant and as has been seen recently (Starbucks, Google etc.) there can be good business reasons not to seem to make a profit. I've no idea what the real situation is, but 26% decrease in turnover doesn't seem great on the face of it.
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For what it's worth, if I had a Snow and Rock voucher or an order outstanding that I had paid for that's not been delivered yet, I would act as soon as physically possible and without any delay.
You have been warned....
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davidhammy, I had a new brochure from them the other day, never had one like it before, not the usual catalogue, more a pared down version with lots of 'online exclusive offers' featured.
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evski, the figure that generally gives a truer figure is Earnings Before Interest and Tax, or similar, as it strips out the tax avoiding interest payments to the banks, venture capital owners etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davidhammy wrote: |
For what it's worth, if I had a Snow and Rock voucher or an order outstanding that I had paid for that's not been delivered yet, I would act as soon as physically possible and without any delay.
You have been warned.... |
And your basis for this sentiment is ?
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dsoutar, in his first post he says his friend is a senior manager at S&R. His first post was shortly followed by news of the CEO leaving so take it as you will, high street needs to adapt or it will die imo.
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FAQ
