 Poster: A snowHead
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From what I understand the risk of avalanche is quite low on slopes <30 degrees, but rapidly rises, reaching a peak risk around 38-40 degrees.
I did off-piste week in EK last year, skied a lot of well known runs. Eg grand vallon, cugnai, banane, spatule, danaides, charvet
I don't know how steep the above slopes are. Does anyone know? Anyway I skied the Face de Bellevarde black piste. This sure feels real steep, actually feels steeper than any of the off-piste runs at its steepest.
However I am surprised to know that the very steepest section of Face is only 32degrees.
So, does this mean all of the above slopes are very unlikely to avalanche, or are these runs in fact steeper than Face but feel less steep because the have soft powdery snow while Face is icy
Any thoughts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not just the pitch of the face, this gives you an idea of weather the slope you are on is likely to avalanche while you ski over it, but you have to consider slopes above you, for instance is there an overhanging cornice 1000 ft above you that might drop on top of you
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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A slope of about 20 degrees can avalanche if there is a weak layer in the snow pack.
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as you have found, judging steepness is quite difficult. suggest you work on identifying slopes of 25 degrees (steep red run) or more and then just assume that you need to be thinking about avvy risk as soon as you over that. as people say, slopes can avalanche at lower steepnesses but you need quite specific conditions for that
this is a very broad rule of thumb but you can work on nuances as you gain more experience
you can get a clinometer for cheap online so worth buying one of those and measuring slopes from time to time until you get to a stage when you can do it by eye
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Face is nowhere near 38º at its steepest point - I'd be surprised if it were even 32º but I suppose there might be a short bit somewhere on the face. There are no pistes as steep as 40º. (Well OK, yes, the Fly-paper - great photo moffatross - but that is only about 100 yards or so. Obviously you couldn't groom it.) Black runs over 30º in Europe are relatively rare.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Thu 29-11-12 15:15; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Main avalanche danger is on slopes from 25- 45º (Generally snow doesn't stick very well to accumulate on slopes steeper than that ). However I've read that in thaw conditions wet snow lubricated by meltwater can slip at as low as 15º occasionally.
As has been said above, lots of different factors are involved. Any of those slopes could avalanche in the right conditions.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 29-11-12 19:37; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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patricksh,
Of the slopes you mentioned Gran Vallon, Cugnai and Charvet can all be prone to avalanches in the right conditions. I do not recognise the names of the others you mention so I cannot comment on them.
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Take a look at SAIS website, maybe learn to dig a snowpit if you're going off piste
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You know it makes sense.
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Judging slope angles is down to experience.
Get a clinometer (or one of the phone apps!) and check slopes from time to time to build up a mental picture of what a given gradient looks like.
In rough ski terms:
<10° - This is flat. I'm not moving
10° - This is a bit dull
15° - This is fun and cruisy
20° - This piste has some steep bits / this powder is fun and cruisy
25° - This piste feels pretty steep / this powder is pretty flowy
30° - This piste is GNAR / this powder is pretty rad
35° - Woah, that was a really steep rollover on the gnarliest piste / FUN STEEPS!
40° - Oh poo-poo oh poo-poo oh poo-poo
45° - MUMMY!
50° - Pushing the limits of what's possible
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| snowball wrote: |
| Face is nowhere near 38º at its steepest point - I'd be surprised if it were even 32º but I suppose there might be a short bit somewhere on the face. There are no pistes as steep as 40º. (Well OK, yes, the Fly-paper - great photo moffatross - but that is only about 100 yards or so. Obviously you couldn't groom it.) Black runs over 30º in Europe are relatively rare. |
Fair enough about Face - I've skied it quite a few times, but all quite a while ago. I remember thinking it was not as steep as I had heard it would be - but maybe I was swayed by its reputation when I tried to recall its slope. The Tunnel at ADH, OTOH, I did think quite fierce - mind you it was deeply moguled when I was on it. Just out of the tunnel seems to be its steepest point. Care to guess at the slope there?
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Poster: A snowHead
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about 80-90% of slides occur on slopes between 35-40 degrees
and
about 90% of slides occur when the avalanche danger level is 3 or more.
So, to avoid about 95%+ of avas: when the danger level is 3 or greater don't ski on slopes with gradients of 35-40 degrees. KISS
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 3-12-12 16:19; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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horgand, the problem with that approach is that you are still clueless about which 33-37 degree slopes are safer to ski on the days where the avalanche risk is less than three.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles, it is quite a while since I skied ADH and I think I cut to the off piste slopes to the right of the Tunnel piste. However it is certainly steeper than the Face. Plus, when you get bumps on a steep face, the steeper face is at once 10º - 15º steeper than the slope so makes everything look much scarier. Really steep slopes (40º+) don't form bumps in my experience.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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horgand, it's easy to edit a post of your own, just click on the symbol on the right of the post depicting a small of scissors.
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horgand, if you don't ride steeps on level 3 days, you'll miss out on most of the best conditions / runs. It's a simple way to stay (relatively) safe of course, but it's making the judgements on those L3/L4 days which is really the core of avalanche awareness.
Comes down to your own personal acceptable level of risk, of course.
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We had a 40 degree plastic side slip slope, wind blew it off, luckly nobody there when it formed a barrell roll avalanche formation unique to dendex.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Cynic wrote: |
| We had a 40 degree plastic side slip slope, |
Where? How big? Sounds like a good idea. Perhaps a snow dome might consider that.
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The 25 degree angle cut off is for slab avalanches in the alps (the critical angle varies a little in other mountain ranges, depending on prevailing snow characteristics). Other types of avalanche (e.g. spring wet snow) will slide at lower angles. But as 90% of avalanches in the alps are slabs, it's a useful angle to remember.
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FAQ
Got em on the brain this morning!
Yes, some gullies just naturally release and it's funny how the texture of run-off can sometimes be ski-through innocuous and other times be like concrete rubble with the pity of it being that you don't often know whether it's lush or like volcanic lava until you're already in it.
