It’s a sunny September afternoon, M83 is chucking it out on the car sound system; the passing trees are starting to take on autumn colour. Without warning, from the back seat of the car comes ‘…Dad…can we NOT take any learners with us when we next go skiing; it means that we have to hang around a lot looking after them…’. Fair enough…understand the sentiment….but this is from a seven-year old, for goodness’ sake. OK…a seven year old who seems to live in a low gravity environment when he is in the park, and is the turniest young skier I’ve seen.
It immediately got me thinking about the skiing I have done since he and his sister appeared on the scene. The first couple of years were spent in relays from restaurant to restaurant – intensive personal skiing was squeezed in during the short time while each tiny infant was sleeping. Come the age of two, it was ‘grab an hour when you can’ in the mornings, with afternoons on the slope outside the lift station restaurant – a mix of tobogganning, sliding down snow heaps, and a few moments for them on skis. During this time, it felt that my own skills were ebbing away. Where were the ‘first lift’ days, the powder days, and the ‘twilight runs’ back after the chairs were all shut? And look at the slashes in my ski trousers from endlessly carrying kids wearing 65cm skis...
Next season came ski school, with intolerable levels of military organization to get them there on time, selfishly grabbing a few hours maxing personal time on snow. Then pickup at lunchtime, followed by long hours in the fug of restaurants while they slept, exhausted, until mid afternoon. Horror runs back to the village, on the narrow home pistes, as the crowds came off the mountain at the end of the day, my son holding on to a ski pole held horizontally to my right (‘…motor-bike skiing, Dad…’). But never a collision, despite the mayhem. I still recall the constant nagging pain in my lower back, from ‘motorbike skiing’, from carrying children, from schlepping around with crazy amounts of gear, and supporting them on button-lifts.
Next season came their emerging competence, and … incredible … whole days on the slopes with two tiny anarchists. Blues, then reds, then blacks. A day when I was asked ‘…are you sure your kids should be here…’ (at 3000m, about to do a 12km descent in zero viz and minus 15). And I realized that I spoke the truth when I said ‘…yes, they’re used to it, they’re fine…’. Slowly, piste protocol and safety routines on lifts were firmly established. A more normal skiing routine began to be in sight. But not the heady days of my skiing with peers. No off-piste thrashing, no all-day circuits on steeps. And then I noticed something. I began to look forward to days skiing with my four-year-old. I had been sure that I would merely tolerate these slow, slow days, not enjoy them. I thought that I too would think ‘…can I NOT spend time with learners, since it means that I will have to hang around a lot looking after them…’. But that was no longer kicking in. And it was only when I raised the topic with a leading climber (while we soaked in the local thermal baths comparing notes regarding climbing and skiing with small kids) that I understood what was going on. He said ‘…of course your skiing is improving…you’re not going flat-out all the time anymore…there’s nothing harder than skiing really slowly, neatly, tidily, and totally in control….’. A light bulb went on in my head. I’d always thought that I was learning most when I was really pushing the envelope, but I’d seen faster improvement in my technique when skiing with my four year old. It makes sense. With him in front, using my 15m radius skis to match exactly his tight turns on his 5m radius skis was no mean feat. Do it continuously for two hours and a certain tidiness tends to emerge. With me in front, with him following my tracks, I have to keep to an exact pace, choose a precise and safe ‘micro-route’ through crud and bumps, and keep an eagle eye on the infant behind. It’s a complex learning regime for me – he just has to follow. By skiing with him, my technique improved at a very rapid pace. My edge control became highly refined, my tight turns became really, really tight. My ‘micro-route’ skills on and off-piste – this bump, that patch, that jump – were far more effortless and automatic. In fact, on the few times when I could ski solo, I frequently found the best technique for a difficult steep was a voice in my head: ‘…slow down, and ski like you do with the kids…’ – and the flow came….
It may all have been a different situation if either or both of my children were reluctant learners. It undoubtedly helped that both of them, my son in particular, were committed learners and enthusiastic skiers. Helped by the brilliant small class structure at Swiss Mountain Sports school in Crans Montana (which I mentioned earlier in the week), they learned fast, and applied all advice…well, mostly. Going absent-without-leave off piste created rather a big row, as did the random jumping back onto the piste, without checking for traffic. But good self-control is now joining a decent level of piste awareness.
So….back to the present, the car and the ‘learners’ discussion: ‘OK…’ I said ‘…we’ll not have rank beginners with us this time…’. But inwardly, I was smiling. While over my own formative years I learned huge amounts through formal coaching with a set of amazing instructors, the ‘learning time’ spent with my kids has not proved to comprise wasted years. Far from it. The first years were tough – and keeping up my own time and skills required a lot of careful time management. But in the last three years – from the age of 4 - skiing with them has not been a grim time of grinding teeth and hours slipping slowly away. Instead, it’s been an interesting and alternative route to a refinement of my own technique. There’s a lot of merit in slowness.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I've skied about 150 days with my son over the last 5 years and I wouldn't have missed any of it. I haven't done any piste skiing outside of what we've done together. You've got to be patient, oh and like your kids.
I'd agree that it has improved my skiing - in part because I've taught m son to ski and you have to think about what you are explaining and demonstrating and you have to be able to assist when necessary.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Oh yes indeed, nothing like skiing slowly to improve yourself.
valais2, Agree with you about skiing slowly, some of the best advice I had for skiing trees was 'to slow it down and the speed will come' also applies to steeps too. As you say the flow comes.
We always used to ski the kiddie runs they put in through trees, you have to ski them slowly as they are so tight, along with ducking branches and the bumps always made for fun times. You see loads of these over in North America and are great.
Enjoy the time skiiing with your kids as it wont be forever, do you think they are going to slow down and wait for you next season ?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
This is good.
My boy's 2 1/2 and I hope to take him away next season (13/14).... I do wonder how it'll be skiing with him, but I know I'll look forward to it no matter what.
valais2, good post. Skiing slowly with precision is always demanding. Speed often masks faults, but skiing slowly brutally exposes them (as well as giving a great opportunity to correct them).
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I totally agree Valais2. You were very wise to chose a ski school so carefully,and lucky to find a good one. We never found one we trusted and after a couple of disastrous experiences the boys learnt alongside us. It was a time I would not exchange for the world and is one of the things that kept us close as a family. Our sons now all in their twenties and scattered around Europe, are far better skiers than I`ll ever be and actually they have been for a long time We are all very much looking forward to skiing together this year (plus one girlfriend) after missing out on a few seasons for various reasons.
Do make the most of skiing with your children as children. (Or indeed any activity) I have a whole host of wonderful memories, and we as a family have lots of funny moments to recall over family meals, as well as one or two not so funny ones, all of which continue to entertain us and keep us close as a family wherever we all live.
After all it is free
After all it is free
valais2, Nice post, well written, thanks Made me smile reading a few of the comments, we've had similar experiences. My one regret is that all the weeks I've put my son in really good lessons I've not done the same for myself, I did last year and plan to this year but it's too late for me now Fortunately my son will still wait for me a bit, and he picks a great line so I love to follow him
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Doesn't necessarily have to be kids of course, it can just mean skiing with friends who are less experienced. From what I've seen of kids on skis (and what I remember of myself) they are not slow...
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My friend's children are 9 and 11 and have been making a point for some time now that whoever wants to come along skiing has to ski fast and ski big steep bumps. They both learned with ESF in Chamonix. The girl was 4 and went to their regular program for kids and the younger boy started at Piou-Piou. My friend started taking lessons again to refine her mogul skiing when couple years ago they both totally smoked her on Tortin.
As for skiing slowly I totallly agree that it improves the technique, if you can do something correctly and slowly it will be times easier to do at speed and correct execusion will result in improved fluidity.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Beautiful post, thank you - made my next ski trip (Xmas) come to life in my mind as thats what I will be doing. Last year I was lucky enough to have a day with a family a couple of years down the line (theri youngest was 13, mine 6) - defintely no slow skiers - boy waht a shock that incdrease in speed was! But yes those tight, tight turns and focus you described seemed to work at lightning (it seemed) speed. 30 days to go...all the boys excited!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Those kids will soon not only ski faster than you, they won't be kids, either. Enjoy them when you can - and not only skiing, as CaravanSkier says. I remember one solo snowshoe walk I did, a couple of years ago, on a sunny afternoon. At the bottom of the path I passed a grandmother and 2 year old in the snow, building roads and bridges and a whole little snowy world for his toy cars and a tipper truck. Maybe big brother or sister was out with the other grandparent, skiing!
The OP underlines, though, the skill and experience necessary to accompany small kids really well.
At Easter 2013 I will have no fewer than 4 grandchildren all starting to ski at the same time - along with a couple of friends. I will be arranging private "group" lessons for them and can't wait for them to acquire some basic skills so we can ski together a bit, on the gentlest slopes. I know that my son is longing for the day he can ski with his kids (three of the 4 are his, will be aged 4, 6 and .
It does seem such a shame when people stick their kids in childcare all day long, frustrating as it is when you get them into all the gear (sweating and moaning because it's warm indoors) and then ten minutes after you get outside for one of those sessions of snowballs and snowmen which look such fun on other people's youTube videos, one needs a poo and the other has fallen flat on his face in a snowdrift and is yelling his head off with nostrils full of a mixture of snow and snot.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Good and valid post, but having become intermediates, and now being 13 and 14, my kids do not always show enthusiasm for expensive ski holidays, or instruction. I think that they would rather be larking around with friends, instead of skiing with parents, or just doing something that they prefer, like surfing, rugby, or riding. Some of this is down to ski schools that bore ( rather than light a fire of passion for skiing), along side my inability to instruct, so they perhaps don`t get the most out of it. Private lessons would be the answer, if I could afford them. The most important factor, though, is fun, and at that age that means friends or an extended group, not hanging out with parents. ( Although I am obviously super cool, and not an embarrassment to be with, Movember excepted!!)
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
The most important factor, though, is fun, and at that age that means friends or an extended group, not hanging out with parents.
Right. At that age we found that going on holiday with cousins, preferably in big chalets, or a chalet hotel, were the best answer - they used to go bombing off the cousins and new-found friends. They all loved skiing, and still do. Curiously they have re-discovered an enjoyment of skiing with me. It can't just be because I offer free accommodation, free airport transfers and free child-care. Can it?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
valais2, Fantastic post
I tele with my kids (they are on alpine gear) and that also really helps me. Both for tele and alpine as I ski parallel on the steeper bits which is really requires thought rather than speed. They are great to ski with and it is such a deep pleasure.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
valais2, thank you for putting your experiences in black and white. We have had wonderful experiences with our son (also 7) and look forward to many many more. It took me a while to realise how skiing with him had improved my own technique. We have it all to look forward to again with son no.2 (only just 1) but no.1 son assures us he will be 'helping out' when his little brother takes to the snow!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
valais2, that was a good read. You forgot skiing switch though. I've learned to do that semi competently since having a wee'un following me about. "Follow me" works a bit better when you're face to face
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Enjoy it while you can. I've reached the stage now where I can't keep up with my daughter
Mr Piehole, ....you're absolutely right...I'd forgotten that...I also realised I was spending a lot more time switch...and recently, when I turn 180 to have a quick chat, my small one thinks that I'm doing it to suggest that he should too...leads to a rather amusing sequence of us turning circles for about 200m for no good reason....
Colin B, ...very, very tidy...you have taught the small one well, Master Po....
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Colin B, nice film - nice skiing, and looks like nice snow. Were you hand holding a camera?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Horribly crowded run though......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
pam w, That was L2A last Easter. It was a contour HD helmet cam on a goggle mount. We spent a couple of half days playing with it. Hope to get even more this year now I'm more aware of how to get the best out of it.
valais2, None of my doing, we both started at the same time actually and she probably overtook me aged about 12. Mainly Easiski's tuition to thank. She'll be even better this winter after her week of BASI1 training.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
pam w, It was Saturday. I just love skiing on Saturday
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
What an inordinately well-written post.
We're about to start on this adventure with our daughter when we go to France in January with my folks.
Can't wait until I'm chasing her down the blacks
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
EvilWeevil,
Quote:
What an inordinately well-written post.
Indeed. A pleasure to read.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Colin B, Same! I noticed it a couple of years back...late afternoon....bloody Duracell bunny just keeps going on....and on....somebody created a monster!
valais2, Nice post!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Fab post, Valais2. I'm looking forward to the Slow Years with my older child having just turned 5. She left us with our jaws on the floor last year as she left us standing on the ski school slalom course. Our 2 year old will be with Nana playing with cars, but not for long, I reckon!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
wouldn t change it for the world...........its defo one of lifes pleasures to watch as your little ones progress.
It isn t long before they pick it up and will soon be whizzing past...................that i m really looking forward to
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
pandora, rob@rar, ....thanks for the positive reaction to the original post, all; and quite a few votes for slowness....and lots of reassuringly rewarding times skiing with the small ones....
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
pandora, rob@rar, ....thanks for the positive reaction to the original post, all; and quite a few votes for slowness....and lots of reassuringly rewarding times skiing with the small ones....
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I started as a beginner along with my kids (who were 4 and 6 at the time) and given I am naturally quite cautious then having them push me/ needing to just get on with things or they would be nervous has done me the world of good. The sight of my little one heading off to check her Daddy is OK as he has gone a**e over b***ocks for the umpteenth time is heartwarming. Am dreading the time when I am too old and slow to be deemed an acceptable ski buddy.... I fear my days are numbered!!
Colin B, nice vid, really nice to hear mountain noises not crappy music edited in, I watched your vid while doing step ups near an open window, almost could have been skiing that run with you with the wind in my hair.
valais2, I have not been a member for long however that was a really great post and certainly one of the best I have read. Thanks for taking the time to share that.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
valais2, great post and has brought back so many great memories from when my son and I learned to ski together. We both started on Cairngorm in 2005 when he was nearly 5 and I was 41. We have had so many great days both here in Scotland and abroad. It has created an immeasurable bond between us and our love for the mountains and skiing. Short video of him just before his 9th birthday in 2009 on the Stade Piste of the Tochet lift in Val Claret, Tignes.
This was the day I realised he was way better than me, they grow up so quickly , ski with them and have fun.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 26-11-12 23:59; edited 2 times in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Got a bit worried when I saw the title of the post, but thought I'd check it out, ready to rant at someone who thought skiing with their kids was all hard work and no fun and a waste of good slope time.
Instead I'm left with a warm glow inside and the realisation that not all of the human race is so far off course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
A post that has left me jealous and depressed, we have skied every year since our 13 yr old twins were 18 months old, neither have shown a great interest and this year we will not ski as a family, which is doubly sad as one of our twins has a slight physical disability and last year, thanks to many years of private lessons in Soldeu she really started to ski with some confidence and our little 4 year old girl was off across the mountain leading the bigger girls in her class loving every bit of it.
Mum and the bigger girls would rather be laid on a beach or riding horses,
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
tangowaggon, ...I have a plan for this easter which reflects the skiing obsession of half of the family and the horse obsession of other parts of it: a week skiing at easter in Crans and then a week riding horse in the Ardeche (kind of on the way back in a not-very-on-the-way-back kind of way) - and it's also possible to ski at Tignes and go riding from Les Roches above Peseiy Nancroix - up into the beautiful valley into the Vanois national park....
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
We are all very much looking forward to skiing together this year (plus one girlfriend) after missing out on a few seasons for various reasons.
Fortunately my son will still wait for me a bit, and he picks a great line so I love to follow him 
Those kids will soon not only ski faster than you, they won't be kids, either. Enjoy them when you can - and not only skiing, as 
.
I noticed it a couple of years back...late afternoon....bloody Duracell bunny just keeps going on....and on....somebody created a monster!
