Sainte Foy

A snowHead

Saint Foy's village sounds gorgeous. I googled. I searched. I read.

But I still can't work out whether its miniscule pistes are linked by piste or chair to anywhere else with a big(ger) groomed network. I don't do off-piste yet, so that's not even a consideration.

Puzzled

A snowHead

Ste Foy's not linked by lift or piste to anywhere else, and not likely to be AFAIK. La Rosiere would be the nearest place I would guess, but it's probably still too far away to think about joining by skilifts anytime soon. You can of course drive from Ste Foy to anywhere else in the Tarentaise pretty quickly, and the SF week lift pass gets you free days in various other places.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Manda,

Haven't got around to visiting it but it is supposed to be quiet area with a small network of lifts which have the prime attraction of providing good launch pads to off-piste routes. Depending how mileage-hungry you are it is supposed to be enetertaining for 3 or so days. You might stay there and day-trip to LP or Les Arcs or further up the valley to Espace Killy and La Ros'. Sounds a good place to have a car.

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Manda, It's worth a go, but not for a whole week - especially if you don't do offpiste, - or (on the other side of the valley), Villaroger, which is part of the Les Arcs system, but has similar villages.

You could stay on BSM and drive around, LA will be up the train, Tignes and Val D up the road, La Plagne down it.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Manda, Take a peek at Sainte Foy . This photo was taken from above Villaroger and looks across to Sainte Foy.

Villaroger or Le Pre are a great places to stay if you are not looking for wild nightlife in a more typical alpine atmosphere.

CP

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ask the resident "La Ros" expert David Traxx, he'll be able to tell you all about Sainte Foy and all it's glories for off piste sliding!

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Manda, used to be great for the odd day, it's now like Surrey in the snow, full of identical looking chalets and one day last season we didn't hear any French spoken all day. I'd only go there now after a fresh dump when you can go anywhere, but it can be dangerous, I've known people get caught in avalanches there. It's not linked to anywhere, nor is it likely to be and would be the last place I'd want to stay for a week.

After all it is free

Would have to concur with David, been there the last couple of years, the second time only because it is good for slope-side accomodation, and thus good if you have kids. There are three (slowish) lifts, one above the other, accessing fairly limited pistes, but lots of accessible off-piste. Resort-wise, there is a couple of bars and restaurants, but not much by the way of atmosphere, and certainly not of the French kind.

Given the fact that Sainte Foy doesn't actually sound too great any reason why property costs a small fortune? It looks like property has doubled in the last couple of years?

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NorthWestFace, it's not just Sainte Foy, ski property across the Savoie has increased markedly.

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rob,

I know property has gone mad all over but Saint Foye does seem to have been the latest thing that all these property companies (brit estate agents in the alps) seem to have been talking about, always gets a mention when the press talk about alpine property, in the flight supplements etc, usually along with Samoens, Les Gets and the new 'Resort' of Arc 1950 - I have been to all of these except Saint Foye and would say you can get lots more for your money.

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NorthWestFace, yes, it's a good idea to look around to see what you want for your money. For some, Sainte Foy may float their boat, but it wasn't suitable for what we wanted when we were looking to buy a holiday apartment, even though it was not getting the attention it gets now (and therefore seemed a bit cheaper than now).

http://www.ukoverseas.com/propertydetail.aspx?property_pid=47801

Mind-boggling price for 30sq m of space.
Shocked

You know it makes sense.

Helen,

Wow that's too much! Can't see how they can maintain that sort of growth rate. What about putting £130k in the bank instead and using the £5k interest to stay in luxury hotels instead! Okay so you won't benefit from the apprciation in property prices but you won't lose either if it goes the other way!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

NorthWestFace, Your'e right, Ste Foy is being marketed as the next Val d'Isere and the prices have been set accordingly. It was, apart from Arc 1950, just about the only place where there was any significant new building in the Tarentaise, the local commune in Ste Foy voted to increase bed capacity from 2,000 per week to 5,000 over 2 years. It's such a shame, it was a super little village.

A snowHead

David@traxvax,

I see all down to the planning!

on the ARC1950 thing I just hope that the plans for Intrawest to build in Flaine are not followed through, I know it's a bit ugly but I love it and having been to Tremblant in Canada I really don't think we need Disney Land on Snow in Haute Savoie!

Went for a week and really didn’t like it, every Restaurant was like one of those themed efforts you get at the local multiplex cinema complex and the whole resort just a little too plastic for me.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Taking the building materials out of the picture altogether:

Imagine going to every Restaurant in a resort and being presented with the exact same wine list.
Imagine one Ski shop in the resort, one make of ski, one price you can pay.
Imagine a supermarket that didn’t actually stock much food – maybe you would feel forced to head for the suspiciously over priced restaurants?
Imagine if every local business in the resort was actually owned by a big corporation and run with a minimum cost ‘have a nice day’ culture.

These are my memories of Intrawest and Tremblant, okay I had a comfy bed and they even managed to organise lift queues to prevent congestion but it’s really not my cup of tea.

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Taking the building materials out of the picture altogether:

Imagine going to every Restaurant in a resort and being presented with the exact same wine list.
Imagine one Ski shop in the resort, one make of ski, one price you can pay.
Imagine a supermarket that didn’t actually stock much food – maybe you would feel forced to head for the suspiciously over priced restaurants?
Imagine if every local business in the resort was actually owned by a big corporation and run with a minimum cost ‘have a nice day’ culture.

These are my memories of Intrawest and Tremblant, okay I had a comfy bed and they even managed to organise lift queues to prevent congestion but it’s really not my cup of tea.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Taking the building materials out of the picture altogether:

Imagine going to every Restaurant in a resort and being presented with the exact same wine list.
Imagine one Ski shop in the resort, one make of ski, one price you can pay.
Imagine a supermarket that didn’t actually stock much food – maybe you would feel forced to head for the suspiciously over priced restaurants?
Imagine if every local business in the resort was actually owned by a big corporation and run with a minimum cost ‘have a nice day’ culture.

These are my memories of Intrawest and Tremblant, okay I had a comfy bed and they even managed to organise lift queues to prevent congestion but it’s really not my cup of tea.

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NorthWestFace, I recognise the drawbacks of a resort which is tightly managed by a single company, although I have to say that in my experience of the large French resorts the negative aspects you describe are equally prevalent regardless of whether it is one owner or many. If the antithesis of developments such as Intrawest's led to the organic growth of perfect little ski stations which could cater for mass-market tourism I'd be delighted. But I don't think that's a realistic proposition, so I'm prepared to accept some compromises including large companies such as Intrawest undertaking some of the new development across the Alps. A little bit of the "have a nice day" culture wouldn't go amiss in France as far as I'm concerned, if by that phrase we mean a keen focus on the needs of the customer.

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rob@rar.org.uk,

You surprise me, I have never been presented with the exact same Wine list in two Restaurants in the same resort and I have never seen a single shop in a resort stocking only one brand of ski, additionally I always find the supermarkets well stocked.

Lets face it I seriously doubt if the Sherpa or Casino supermarket manager is working for the same company as the local pizzeria! I guess we are talking about competition here and in my view competition is good for the consumer and a monopoly half way up a mountain is not!

I guess it's down to personal preference and some people like the sort of environment I have described. Hopefully Intrawest haven’t got plans to diversify and build a little village in the Lakes or Snowdonia as from what I am hearing they may well have a market.

After all it is free

NorthWestFace, although I've not done a systematic comparision, I thought the prices in the Spar supermarket in Intrawest's Arc 1950 were broadly similar to prices in the Spar at Arc 1800. And the prices in the Spar at Arc 1800 are broadly similar to the prices in the Sherpa at Arc 1800, so I don't believe that Intrawest's presence in the resort has led to an immediate failure of competition in the resort services which are provided to the poor punter.

At the moment I think there's only one kit/clothing shop in Arc 1950 (Ogiers) which is at the top end of the price range, but if punters feel like they are being ripped off they can catch the free lift up to 2000 to shop there, or shop in any of the other Arc resorts or indeed down in BSM.

The different restaurants across Les Arcs do not have an identical menu/wine lists, but neither do the two bars and two restaurants in Arc 1950. Although I'm not certain, I believe they are franchised to independent operators rather than being wholly managed by Intrawest.

Intrawest gets a bad rap here, and is often portrayed as being a wholly bad thing for skiing in the Alps. In my opinion this is an unwarranted reputation, and while I recognise the disadvantages I also see that it brings many advantages to resorts such as Les Arcs.

rob@rar.org.uk,

My experience is based on Tremblant which I believe is the Intrawest ideal Business Model. What are the 'many advantages' has it brought to Les Arcs?

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rob@rar.org.uk and NorthWestFace, I don't want to get into the Intrawest good guys/bad guys discussion and up front I will declare an interest as I have bought a place in Arc 1950 but it would certainly appear that the model at 1950 for retail outlets is different to that experienced by NorthWestFace, in Tremblant.

I've also found the prices in the Spar at 1950 comparable to those of the Sherpa (I think) supermarket in 2000 as well as those in 1800 - in addition it was open seven days a week in the summer (end July) where the supermarket in 2000 was closed all week.

In 1950 there are two kit/clothing shops (Ogier and the Concept Board shop). Both sell a good range of clothes but the former does ski hire/sales and the latter board hire/sales - both are run by different companies rather than Intrawest. I would agree that Ogier are top end of the price for kit hire so I have hired kit from Equilibres in 2000 taking the cabriolet lift up and down - I want to support the village retailers and believe that the Spar, bakers and Spirit 1950 ski school (max group size of 10 guaranteed) in particular offer a great service for a good price but the advantages of hiring kit in the village were not sufficient (to me) to justify the additional price (40-50% I think).

As rob@rar.org.uk says, perhaps that's the difference in 1950 compared to Tremblant? - that access to 2000 (in particular) and its retail outlets is very easy via the cabriolet lift so there is an element of competition.

In terms of control over the retail outlets/restaurants, talking to the instructor we had in April, he has bought the sweet shop that will open in 1950 for the winter and he said the shops are all freehold - sold to the independant operators so not even leased from ITW. However, I believe that Intrawest must (at least initially) have had some control over the type of restaurants that will open to get the mix of different places they are looking for but how long that control/influence lasts I don't know.

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Looks like we will have to agree to disagree on this - even thinking of Arcs 1950 as a "new village" is totally alien to me - the other advantages I just don't see as benefits. People will in the end vote with their feet / wallet which I see you have already.

NorthWestFace, OK, happy to disagree on this as different people look for different things in a ski resort, but just to satisfy my curiosity what would you call the collection of new buildings at 1950 that together provide 3,500 additonal beds. I appreciate that "village" might not be appropriate because it's not a year-round community, but what should it be called?

You know it makes sense.

Not sure - let me think - what about ‘those new apartment blocks 50 meters down the road from Arcs2000'

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Say what you see! Anyway what are people paying a square meter and how does it compare to your own place? 10% more? 30%?

A snowHead

NorthWestFace, at 1950, it varies enormously depending what floor the place is on and what view it has (over the street or over the ski area or across the valley to Mt Blanc) - for example in building 3, the price of one bed apartments varied from €4326 per m2 for a first floor place overlooking the street to €7409 for a fourth floor place looking out over the ski area.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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It's like I said put 150k in the bank and visit luxury hotels around Europe for your ski holiday instead! I paid €1300 M2 exactly 2 years ago in Les Carroz. Tarrentaise was out of the question and unfortunately sounds like it still is! What sort of price are the Arc1950 properties going for?

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NorthWestFace, at 1950 (for building three), between €4326 per m2 for a first floor place overlooking the street to €7409 for a fourth floor place looking out over the ski area - generally prices increased about 5-10% per building through to the final one (building 7).

Doesn't your suggestion assume people have 150k available in cash as opposed to borrowing at least a % of it?

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Bungle,

Good Point - It Does!

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After all it is free

maybe I forget how much it costs, I was actually talking to friends at the weekend who are thinking of the Village Montana in Tignes for Xmas (2 bedroom apartment 4 occupancy) neilson had it at £748 per person, Inghams had the sam deal for £550. That's a cool 3k / 2.2k beofore anyone had bought a can of beans or paid for a lift pass!

NorthWestFace, If staying in these apartments make sure you specify that BOTH bedrooms have windows!
Some of these 2 bedroomed apartments do not have a window in the 2nd bedroom and it is NOT nice! (If you want a taster, then sleep in your wardrobe tonight! Toofy Grin

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NorthWestFace, in common with a number of chalet owners in the Tarentaise we are very grateful for Interwest to raise prices throughout the valley in the way in which they have done. I am not and I suspect, I never will be a fan of Intrawest because I believe that they are attempting to introduce an alien concept into the Alps, the company owned mountain. One of the things I love about the Alps now, is that wherever you go there are individually owned ski shops, bars, restaurants and cafes. Heaven forbid that one day all of these outlets belong to the same organisation, as they do in the US. Whenever I'm showing guests around our mountain, I take great pride in introducing them to those establishments which welcome them, give good service and value for money.

Help!!

Sainte Foy

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