 Poster: A snowHead
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Greetings to weather gurus of wiggly lines etc
Mrs sev112 wants to do our family trip earlier in jan this year - we normally head out late Jan
Looking at St Anton or 3V particularly at the moment (for specific accomodation)
I remember in the olden days of yore, i seem to remember going to the 3Vs in the first week of Jan and all we used to get was whiteouts so i'm still scarred by that
Whilst i know all the caveats etc , is there any weather logic/history that suggests Austria / Tyrol might be better or worse in those early weeks of the year ?
ta v m
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nope.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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nozawaonsen, far too verbose, "No"
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You could have whiteouts in either place late Jan or early Jan. I'd make your choice on other criteria ie ski area, difficulty of slopes, apres etc, whatever is more important for you!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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St Anton gets on average about 15% to 40% more snowfall than the 3Vs every season.
Head to St Anton in January.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 19-11-12 20:09; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Depends on the weather
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Whitegold, The OP seems not to want snow 
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I've skied in whiteouts in France, Italy and Austria in January, February and March.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Depends on the weather
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Frosty the Snowman, 
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6 and 2 threes from a weather perspective really. The climatic differences between the two are within the seasonal variance of either so not much worth worrying about. Pick on your second highest criteria.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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When you say the 3Vs, which valley are you thinking about specifically? From looking at the statistics for the last 25 years, two of them are much more likely to experience poor visibility in January than the other one.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I though the 3Vs would be best snow wise due to altitude and obviously area? VT always going to be OK surely? FI the above stat is true I'm amazed and reassured as am heading out that week also.
For everything else, and I do mean everything, go to SA.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
VT always going to be OK surely?
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the OP is looking to reduce the risk of white out. On my list of places in France least likely to be in heavy cloud in January, VT would be somewhere near the bottom. And if it snows more in Austria at that time of year than in France then, given that snow doesn't fall out of a blue sky, chances of cloud in St Anton must be considerable, too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If my auntie had...... you know the rest.
Even the great wizzard of Noz can't predict what the weather will be that far off, so go find some choices and pull one out of a hat (or helmet - oh no I mentioned the helmet). You won't be dissapointed by either, however if you are I must add that there is no legal or morale recourse available.
Out of interest why do most ski instructors in france not wear helmets when instructing, is it because they are ski gods, and going at the 'teaching speed' they think "narthing wheel evurrr urt mee"?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
why do most ski instructors in france not wear helmets when instructing
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Do Austrian and Italian instructors wear helmets? I imagine that it hampers their ability to hear what clients are muttering at them.
Come to that, most instructees in France don't wear helmets either. Being with a Ski God gives them immunity, maybe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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To avoid whiteouts I suggest you go somewhere with plenty of runs through the trees. Austria will usually be the better option for that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sev112, Go to 3V, St Anton lousy in January, poor snow record, poor weather blah blah - think you may need to reassess your selection criteria if weather is your main one! Maybe best off in Dubai snowdome 
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| Peter S wrote: |
| To avoid whiteouts I suggest you go somewhere with plenty of runs through the trees. Austria will usually be the better option for that. |
having skied extensively at both, I agree that its much of a muchness regarding the risk of whiteout. it depends where you are in 3v as far as skiing below the tree line. obviously in Val Thorens you dont get many trees !
skiing aside, personally I prefer st anton for the shorter transfer, apres ski and less eye watering prices/quality of food on and off the the mountain
maybe see you there in jan (or not if its a whiteout  )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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melandnick, Skiing ok in St Anton too, or just the transfer, après and prices?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Skiing ok in St Anton too
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'tis acceptable
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sev112, so in summary you want a ski holiday where it isn't going to snow and be sunny every day???
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have skied in VT for the last few years and sometimes the weather is lovely and sometimes there are whiteouts. Much like anywhere else really.
If weather is the most important criteria then why don't you flex on when you go and pick a sunny period in nozawaonsen, 's forecasts. One week out there would be a fair certainty.
I can understand the question though. I hate skiing in whiteouts, or even low light levels where the horizon merges with the snow. You do get used to it a bit, if it doesn't make you feel sick.
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| Quote: |
If weather is the most important criteria then why don't you flex on when you go and pick a sunny period in nozawaonsen, 's forecasts
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good advice. Look for one of those blocking high pressures which give us endless days of sunshine and temperature inversions. Be ready to travel at a few days notice.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've skied in both the 3Vs and St Anton during the Christmas week and the first week in January, but not the New year week. In both areas the snow and the weather were OK, not brilliant but not bad. However St Anton was absolutely packed on both weeks (typically 3 half hour queues every morning to get up to the skiing and occasional shoulder to shoulder ski tip to ski tip skiing to get back down) whereas the 3Vs were much quieter and in fact almost deserted in January.
For some reason the most common weather in the Tarrentaise in early January is the blocking high pressure, which means. I am afraid, constant cold and sunshine. Also remember that not all of the 3Vs is high altitude, Meribel is only at 1400m (but for some reason always seams foggy to me) and St Martin de Belleville and Courchevel 1300 are only at 1300m
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
If weather is the most important criteria then why don't you flex on when you go and pick a sunny period in nozawaonsen, 's forecasts
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good advice. Look for one of those blocking high pressures which give us endless days of sunshine and temperature inversions. Be ready to travel at a few days notice. |
Or just go to St Moritz.
Just about the sunniest place in the Western European Alps.
A roughly 70% chance of sun in January.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
St Anton gets on average about 15% to 40% more snowfall than the 3Vs every season.
Head to St Anton in January. |
Sev123,
I've done this comparison for Chamonix and St Anton for New Years period, so whilst not exactly what you asked it is comparable enough.
Basically as Whitegold states above St Anton is far more snow sure throughout the season but particularly so at this time of year. As against that it is noticeably colder and darker with less daylight hours as you wander northwards.
On balance I felt that the Chamonix valley gives me enough snow and sunlight probability trade off for New Years and I tend to migrate towards St Anton for my march trips & later as the snow holds up better, and the Austrian apres in the sunshine wins out.
As for puerile and racist comments, well I'm a paddy so I try not to give hostages to fortune with blatantly racist comments. However some may say French women look better but the Austrians are more modern in their hygene standards.... until they spend a few hours in the KK or Mooser when they neither look as nice or smell nearly as nice as their French counterparts... as for the Thamesvalley imitators, don't get me started ;~))
p.s. cue the abuse!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Wow - seriously impressed with the interest this little question has generated
At least it has highlighted a coupld eo points i was asking about - the old old inversions etc etc etc etc
i think StA is winning at the moment; lift prices appear cheaper
PS why would someone not want snow with sunshine ?
ta v m
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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horgand, whitegold, would be interested if you have any accurate historical snowfall records (St Anton in particular) - I've heard/read in the past the Arlberg typically gets 9-11m per season, Chamonix/Verbier 7-9m, but haven't been able to find the source again.
Cheers
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Poster: A snowHead
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clarky999, Arlberg gets roughly 700cm a season, at village level.
ValTho gets roughly 600cm a season.
Verbier gets roughly 350cm a season.
Chamonix gets roughly 250cm a season.
Of course, the higher you go, the deeper it gets.
Chamonix gets roughly 900cm at the top of the lifts.
In reality, the mountains right across Europe don't really get much snow.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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clarky999, He took the bait!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Whitegold, cheers. Do you have any data for mountain top snowfall? If you know what sort of snow (at village level) the popular Canadian/US resorts get too that'd be ace, please.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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clarky999, it is very difficult to come up with a sensible comparison as the figures are very difficult to validate, the methods for measuring are not comparable (and are often inaccurate) and numbers often seem to be supplied with a view to marketing rather than accuracy (or indeed are cherry picked to sustain a pre determined argument). At the very least you'd want to know what the source for any figures was.
You can see some earlier discussion on the subject here
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1770318&highlight=forbes#1770318
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Clarky999 AFAIK Snow-forecast.com does a pretty good historical snow fall and depth averages for the major resorts at different times of the year.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'd go to Sankt Anton,
The Austrians heff vays of making you enjoy yourself! (if too much or not enough snow)
Go to church and pray!
Or just go to the Mooserwirt and make a pact with the devil or the Thames Valley Shally Girls.
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