 Poster: A snowHead
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There was a great bit of advice from Wayne on a recent thread to make progressively slower runs but continuing to make the same kind of turns. If anyone is interested in finding out some of the weaknesses in their skiing that's a really nice exercise to do.
This weekend I taught a Performance Clinic which took that notion of slowing down the skier to the next level. Using the sequence that beginners normally progress through we looked at developing performance skiing by testing ourselves with snowplough turns! There's more info about the day on the blog I wrote, but some of the most useful stuff we did involved making snowplough turns in different ways (by twisting the skis, by edging the skis, or by pressing the skis) and then trying to replicate the same movements, timing and feelings with interspersed performance runs. Almost without fail the same weaknesses we see in our performance skiing will be on display when we make these basic manoeuvres. Slowing everything down demands a high level of timing and precision of movement if you are to ski well. Asking good skiers to make some well executed snowplough or plough-parallel turns provides a great opportunity for developing the fundamental building blocks of their skiing.
So, next time you have a bit of spare time on a piste or in a snowdome/dry slope you might want to try making some good snowplough turns. Make sure you make good flexion and extension movements, and try to feel the difference when you are doing this (How do the skis work if I make a powerful extension at the start of the turn? Can I feel the ski gripping as soon as I begin the turn?). Make different types of snowplough turn (Can I turn by just twisting the skis in the direction I want to go? Can I do a 'carved' snowplough turn by just edging the ski?) and then make the same kinds of movement when making parallel turns. While making a slow snow-plough turn you have plenty of time to tune in to your internal feedback, so use that to feel where you are balancing at the start, the middle and the end of a turn. Can you stay exactly balanced (laterally and fore/aft) on your skis throughout the turn, even when moving so slowly?
Making good snowplough turns in a variety of ways can be a great way to test even very experienced skiers. At least I think it can be 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 29-10-12 11:14; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, I couldn't agree more. The key for me in improving my skiing in powder was to go right back to snow ploughing. Specifically exercises skiing with boots undone (potentially dangerous) and focusing on the pressure release at the end of the turn something which is often overlooked in eagerness to progress to plough parallel.
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rob@rar, OP yes
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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World cup racers use the plough turn in training and warm-ups, after all it's the foundation of skiing and worth a visit from time to time.
I tend to use it when appropriate, to help skiers connect with what we are trying to achieve what ever that might be.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, +1
The most enlightening part of my BASI 1 was being taught the perfect snowplough, we all think we have it nailed but actually all the flaws in my "high end" skiing were there in my snowplough.
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Absolutely. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that many of the problems with more "advanced" skiing can be solved by going back to the fundamentals of pressure, edge and rotation of the ski, and using a snowplough to get a feel for controlling each of these independently. If the skier can understand these three elements and control them all in a snowplough they'll be able to control their parallel or carved turns more effectively too. Ski rotation in particular is also, I think, an under-taught skill with a lot of people I see rotating from the waist or shoulder rather than the hip and getting into all sorts of problems as a result.
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When I started skiing off-piste my instructor told me to use snow plough turns in certain situations, e.g. if I missed a "good place" to turn, stopped at edge and it was necessary to turn but there was no room and my jump turns were too weak to rely on, plus even as I got better with them they are very difficult to do from static position. Plant a pole, shift weight and bring the other ski around. Works pretty much everywhere and it was a good confidence booster. Not as many sweaty moments like 'cr@p, how do I get out of here' now;) If I could only find something to stop sweating traverses... seemingly easy (going straight is easy) but I find them scary as hell.
I read somewhere that in NA some ski schools now teach straight to parallel technique bypassing any snowplowing. I am not sure it's a very good idea. I suppose it can be learned at a later stage, but I think it's probably better to learn as a basic skill because of its applications.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, +1 From beginners to world class skiers.
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Is it the plough itself or just the fact that by virtue of the plough the skier is going REALLY slow therefore the movements are much easier to isolate/need to be exaggerated to work?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fatbob, both. It relies on going very slow, and because the inside ski is held in a plough position all the work must be done by the outside ski.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Rob, this is a well written and intelligent review of some clever coaching that is suited to context, viz, small snow areas.
The approach should help transform how people use snowdomes by giving clear intentionality to motion and movement.
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Trying to do parallel turns as slowly as possible does the same thing. In fact because centrifugal and centripetal forces decrease as speed slows it makes doing parallel turns increasingly more difficult and brings out any technical skill weaknesses.
It's often an approach examiners on instructor exam courses take as just watching high end performers skiing it is difficult to see the areas to improve. By increasing the task difficulty the performance starts to break down and areas of skill to be improved can be seen to be worked on.
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You know it makes sense.
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| tbovey wrote: |
Rob, this is a well written and intelligent review of some clever coaching that is suited to context, viz, small snow areas.
The approach should help transform how people use snowdomes by giving clear intentionality to motion and movement. |
Thanks! Was tempted to use it this sequence when we were in Tignes if we had been weather-affected on the last day, but as things turned out the weather and snow were excellent so going as fast as we could working on our carving skills was too good an opportunity to pass up!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skierchris, Touchguru, often see the junior racers in Tignes pre-season using plough drills before they get in to gates.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
as things turned out the weather and snow were excellent so going as fast as we could working on our carving skills was too good an opportunity to pass up!
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it does sound a very good drill, which I shall try, but I'm glad the weather was good for carving that day! 
Most skiers probably spend some time on very easy slopes with kids or adult beginners, so an ideal way to use the time productively. Also something to do on narrow home tracks, rather than fretting and huffing and scaring the daylights out of beginners by trying to squeeze past.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| ... but I'm glad the weather was good for carving that day! |
Indeed, as can be seen from some of the photos!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Another interesting couple of drills that I've been using in the last week:
First, with snowplough turn separated into rotation, edge, then pressure to turn:
1) Try lifting tip of inside ski. This forces pressure onto outside ski and really shows what can be done. Lifting just the tip should result in a bit of flex on the other one and support from the boot (though skiers with good balance might not need that), and avoids stepping the inside ski round (i.e. it helps to keep the plough shape.
2) Do it all bending at the hips as far forward as you can comfortably do so. This makes sure you're rotating from the hips, gets pressure on the fronts.
3) Try it with eyes closed (obviously only in safe and controlled environment with someone else looking out and alerting you to hazards). Perhaps eyes closed during turns, open between them, is a better way to start.
4) Apply pressure earlier and earlier in the plough turn, well before the fall line. Doing this with a smaller and smaller plough is then a great way to get skiers who like to do a skiddy parallel turn (rotate skis through fall line, then apply pressure) to do a more carvy parallel turn (edge and pressure before fall line)
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| kieranm wrote: |
| ...1) Try lifting tip of inside ski. This forces pressure onto outside ski and really shows what can be done. |
I prefer to lift the tail of the inside ski as it keeps the fore/aft balance stronger. You often see beginners involuntarily lifting the tip of the inside ski as they try to force it into parallel, and it's obvious their balance is too far back.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| kieranm wrote: |
Another interesting couple of drills that I've been using in the last week:
First, with snowplough turn separated into rotation, edge, then pressure to turn:
1) Try lifting tip of inside ski. This forces pressure onto outside ski and really shows what can be done. Lifting just the tip should result in a bit of flex on the other one and support from the boot (though skiers with good balance might not need that), and avoids stepping the inside ski round (i.e. it helps to keep the plough shape.
2) Do it all bending at the hips as far forward as you can comfortably do so. This makes sure you're rotating from the hips, gets pressure on the fronts.
3) Try it with eyes closed (obviously only in safe and controlled environment with someone else looking out and alerting you to hazards). Perhaps eyes closed during turns, open between them, is a better way to start.
4) Apply pressure earlier and earlier in the plough turn, well before the fall line. Doing this with a smaller and smaller plough is then a great way to get skiers who like to do a skiddy parallel turn (rotate skis through fall line, then apply pressure) to do a more carvy parallel turn (edge and pressure before fall line) |
I agree with Rob on 1), 3) and 4) make sense. With 2) you have to be careful not to bend too much from the hips as this then will be bending from the waist, this orients the pelvis to pointing downwards rather than slightly up as you get with appropriate hip flex. The pelvis needs to tilt slightly upwards as this facilitates leg rotation, whereas waist bend will inhibit leg turning ability.
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rob@rar, I thought today's clinic was terrific. Really tuning into one's body, which is not so easy if one's hooning it down the slope. And even better with closed eyes - all four of us skied better with our eyes closed, apparently! 
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Pedantica, excellent! Scott and I really enjoy teaching these particular sessions, even though there is a slight nervousness on our part that they might be a bit off-putting (eg, "I'm a good skier, why do I need to learn to snowplough?"). But the feedback is usually very positive, so we'll keep them in the programme.
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rob@rar, + 1 for what Pedantica, said. It was really satisfying to feel able to identify and improve fundamental aspects of my skiing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, that's not to say that, by mid-afternoon, I wasn't gagging to do a few quick, aggressive turns. Luckily Scott realised that that was what we all needed to finish off the session.
It's not the first time I've done a 'building blocks' clinic (it wasn't quite the same last time, but had some similarities). Nevertheless I didn't get bored at all.
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rob@rar, I found that a snowplough and associated turns were very useful to do on that track back to your place, when we went there I was not yet comfortable with speed and no width to stop in if I went around the corner and found someone walking. I found that snowploughing was really useful in that situation. If there are some ski schools which miss it out until later then I think new skiers would be missing out.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, I think there are very few places who completely ignore the snowplough when they are teaching new skiers.
I don't want to give the impression that the snowplough is massively "different" to regular skiing. It's just a part of the continuum of movements that skiers make, responding to different situations. It's unusual because experienced skiers rarely use a snowplough turn outside of times such as approaching a lift queue, certainly not for making regular linked turns down a slope. But as a teaching tool it can be very powerful when you ask an experienced skier to make some really well executed snowplough turns to help them understand the effective movements they should make in their performance skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, only thing wrong with today is that my hands hurt. The rope tow on the baby slope, which we used for a while, is a killer. How do the tots manage? 
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Pedantica, did he get you on the nursery slope? He's a meanie! Drag lift-only for my group on Saturday 
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, it was a good call, actually. We did the closed eyes (and snowploughs backwards) stuff on it in a short period when it was quite empty, while the main slope was rammed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar: for beginners lifting the tail is definitely what I'd do for all the reasons you describe, but have a go at lifting the tip when you're using this with more advanced skiers who already have a reasonable posture. I found it, as a participant rather than instructor on this occasion, quite interesting. Perhaps even get them to compare lifting tips with lifting tails. And the lifting has to be really smoooooth!
ski67: With bending forward at the hips, I find if you ask people to bend forward a lot, they actually bend a little, and then gradually straighten up as they ski down. I'm pretty guilty of this myself. The "as much as you can do comfortably" seems to get a better result. I'm no expert on the biomechanics of hip flex but I'm sure if done to extreme it's a bad thing as you say.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Pedantica, Iski, nice to meet you both and well skied!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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kitenski, great to meet you too. And thanks for the useful tips - I'm sure you'll be fine in your BASI2!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Rob with my group we spent quite a bit of time getting dialled into the skis and it wasn't until we did plough turns with eyes closed that they got to "demo grade" quality...
Another thing to add is that when in constrained places like domes and dry slopes you can be imaginative with how you do them.. We (well, I at least) had a bit of fun making smooth edgy snow plough turns following the poma lift back down the hill...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| kieranm wrote: |
rob@rar: for beginners lifting the tail is definitely what I'd do for all the reasons you describe, but have a go at lifting the tip when you're using this with more advanced skiers who already have a reasonable posture. I found it, as a participant rather than instructor on this occasion, quite interesting. Perhaps even get them to compare lifting tips with lifting tails. And the lifting has to be really smoooooth!
ski67: With bending forward at the hips, I find if you ask people to bend forward a lot, they actually bend a little, and then gradually straighten up as they ski down. I'm pretty guilty of this myself. The "as much as you can do comfortably" seems to get a better result. I'm no expert on the biomechanics of hip flex but I'm sure if done to extreme it's a bad thing as you say. |
I like the idea of the 'dib-dabs' with a more advanced skier.
kieranm: you're right in that if you ask people to do a lot they might do about what you want, but obviously as you know you have to monitor carefully what they do in case they did do too much.
I often ask people to make a movement 3 times greater than they feel they should and that often gets results, but it is all about appropriateness as you say.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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kitenski, It was good to meet you in person and put a face to the name, as well as having a little extra input. Good luck with the BASI 2
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Old austrian trick - slow plow wedeln into short turns... good drill to master...
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little tiger, but difficult to perform well as my team discovered
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| Hmmm now I wonder why they look familiar? |
I've no idea?
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