All part of the evolution of "always on" and Big Data.
Could be this years equivalent to Go Pro for the person looking to add another expensive gadget to their life.
Given my propensity to lose goggles several times a season can't see that I'd be in a hurry to splash out. But maybe it is the next big thing?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
nozawaonsen wrote:
Fall Line's October issue touts the Recon MOD Live as "massive" and suggest Recon may have a new i phone on their hands.
I wonder if Fall Line received any bonuses to give such a glowing recommendation? The small screen in the corner doesn't seem like much of a HUD to me, I would expect something more like this for it to be considered top notch:
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A new iPhone? Someone needs to have their hyperbole license revoked.
When they start using displays you can see though, that'll be a bit more interesting... look at the google glass concept. Right now though, I don't feel like my goggles are lacking because there isn't a little message in 2mm text saying "your last 50m face-slide yardsale was the longest of the week!" in one corner.
I had a chat with some of the Recon guys last season, and tried some out.
Seem like a good company and they have a good concept, though still needed a bit of work when I demoed them.
Serriadh wrote:
When they start using displays you can see though, that'll be a bit more interesting... look at the google glass concept.
Having really tried them out, I think that is incorrect, it really doesn't need to be a full on HUD - you really don't want to be normally looking through a display as it would be quite distracting - think how annoying it is just to have a scratch on your goggles. Perhaps something in the periphery for navigation/people finding is all you want. The proper display is only really needed if you want to look at a map, line up your music, do a text, take a photo, answer your phone etc... and I would suggest it is best to not do this whilst skiing!
If recon did this they could probably put in a bigger, brighter, higher res (different type of) display since power would not be an issue.
Having really tried them out, I think that is incorrect, it really doesn't need to be a full on HUD - you really don't want to be normally looking through a display as it would be quite distracting - think how annoying it is just to have a scratch on your goggles.
The nice thing about a transparent display is that when it is turned off, it does not obstruct your vision. This means you can have a screen large enough to be useful, when you need it. As for scratches... these goggles seem to have a big opaque intrusion in one corner of the lens, much bigger than a scratch and a bit more inconvenient to look through A seethrough display doesn't have to be lens-filling either.
Remember that HUDs and holographic gunsights were designed to allow people to see information in a useful fashion whilst they are focussing on something important. Scratches on lenses are too close to be focussed on, which is part of why they are irritating.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Serriadh wrote:
The nice thing about a transparent display is that when it is turned off, it does not obstruct your vision. This means you can have a screen large enough to be useful, when you need it. As for scratches... these goggles seem to have a big opaque intrusion in one corner of the lens, much bigger than a scratch and a bit more inconvenient to look through A seethrough display doesn't have to be lens-filling either.
Remember that HUDs and holographic gunsights were designed to allow people to see information in a useful fashion whilst they are focussing on something important. Scratches on lenses are too close to be focussed on, which is part of why they are irritating.
Though puting a transparent display without any artifacts would make the lens v.expensive. Technology is getting there, but not sure it's there just yet.
To put a bigger display in would require some sort of seperate device at the moment that would have a visible edge - even if you projected it, you'd still likely need a diffuser.
The intrusion of the Recon display isn't really that noticable; the down side of this is you have to make a real effort to look at the display.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Is this really a good idea? One of the biggest dangers with skiing/boarding is people not paying enough attention to the other skiers/boarders around them and getting into collisions. Now, we're giving them even more distractions so that they'll pay even less attention to what's going on around them.
Moreover, boarders already have a blind side. If you put a big display on that side of their goggles, you're just making them even more blind on that side.
On top of that, there's already a problem with people's ambition outweighing their abilities; i.e., they go faster than they can ski/board controllably. Usually, these people aren't actually riding all that fast, so seeing a display of their speeds will only drive them to go faster, making them even more out of control.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Best heads up display that i've seen is in my Pentax SLR through the viewfinder. Simple, easy to read details in a simple line along the bottom of the frame. If someone developed something like that then I'd maybe be interested. Those Recon ones above, seem to take too much of the field of view out of the equation and are not a good idea unless you have a big empty piste all to yourself. I certainly wouldn't want something like that distracting me off piste.
Steveangus has a pair of heads up display goggles that he got last season. Will be good to get a long term test result of them from someone using them every day through the season.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I'll wait for a true GPS/HUD - bound to be one along sooner or later. Split screen would be nice – horizon, compass and altitude for one eye, speed and distance to target in the other? Nice to have a weapons inventory along the bottom as well but I suspect that will be an option
I have read quite a few reviews about these goggles and it seems that the usefulness depends somewhat on the shape of your head. Some users with smallish heads and low-ish cheek bones reported difficulty in seeing the display at all. I think the clue comes from the continual view of the nose piece in shot. I don't know about you but I don't see that through my goggles whereas it appears pretty prominent in the video above.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Still don't see the point other than for gadget freaks to have something to show off. OK I can see specialist applications like a ski instructor being able to tag and track all his kids (assuming they are wearing compatible transmitters etc) and some navigation benefits for the truly incompetent on piste (turn left now at a junction). I wouldn't want the distraction off-piste when frankly I'd rather be using all my senses in terrain, snow and companion assessment.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The recon one mostly fits into the frame and isn't all that noticeable unless you are looking for it, so doesn't really affect peripheral vision, as I said the down side is that it isn't really HUD and you have to make an effort to look for it.
I would probably buy one if it gave me a display as good as my phone. I really don't need it to be on when I am actually skiing, but more a display for a portable computer. I hate having to get my phone out on the chairlift when friends call/text, or I want to take a picture, listen to music, look at the GPS/map. In fact if you took it to the Google-ish logical conclusion I'd be quite happy if I had something that I could also read my emails and documents so I could work on the chair too.
Recon has quite a good model by making it an open android platform, such that if I were so inclined I could write myself an app to locate my friends, or set waypoints on my routes. I'm not sure if it would be better however if the android app was running on the heftier processor on my android phone though?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Tue 25-09-12 17:55; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
stuarth, Surely just have your phone do the clever stuff and the goggles plus a throat mic (for instructions) be a bluetooth input/output device only?
Mind you if you're at the stage where you're doing spreadsheets on a chairlift you're either a) working far too much or b) really taking the wee wee at work.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Take the Pebble watch technology and adapt to output to a HUD and Robert's your auntie's live-in lover.
then write an app to give you the display you want.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
fatbob wrote:
stuarth, Surely just have your phone do the clever stuff and the goggles plus a throat mic (for instructions) be a bluetooth input/output device only?
Yes, that was my point. Worry about making the display part and leave the mobile manufacturers to deal with making every better processing capability for the same cost/power
Quote:
Mind you if you're at the stage where you're doing spreadsheets on a chairlift you're either a) working far too much or b) really taking the wee wee at work.
a) unfortunately - though the fact I get to be on the slopes every weekend makes it more necessary I suppose!
I'm not quite sure I really want to be doing spreadsheets on the slopes (or anytime ), but I do find the good balance between a peaceful chairlift and skiing down is conducive to thought, so would be good if I could read/review the odd pdf, or jot down some thoughts in MS OneNote.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sorry.. I'm a geek, and a bit of an inventor and entrepreneur so bear with me...
accelerometers and gyro-sensors in the goggles so that it can sense which way you're looking.
Using a smart-phone with an external hardware module which doubles as a waterproof case, extended battery pack and transceiver.
Using a combination of GPS from the phone and the transceiver signal from the pack, it can transmit it's location (may need to investigate if it's possible to piggyback a digital signal on the back of the analogue transceiver frequency)
In the event of an avalanche, you can quickly 'see' where anyone is buried with an 'augmented reality' HUD in your goggles.
Additional (albeit potentially morbid but useful features)
Integration with a heart-rate monitor (dig out those who are alive first)
All this technology is already there, it just needs integrated into a single unit
Hmm.... I think I might require you all to sign an NDA... I may have to go and do some research now. I may be some time!
...edit: actually. That HAS given me an idea, far simpler and potentially within my capabilities.. watch this space
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
feef wrote:
Sorry.. I'm a geek, and a bit of an inventor and entrepreneur so bear with me...
accelerometers and gyro-sensors in the goggles so that it can sense which way you're looking.
Using a smart-phone with an external hardware module which doubles as a waterproof case, extended battery pack and transceiver.
Using a combination of GPS from the phone and the transceiver signal from the pack, it can transmit it's location (may need to investigate if it's possible to piggyback a digital signal on the back of the analogue transceiver frequency)
In the event of an avalanche, you can quickly 'see' where anyone is buried with an 'augmented reality' HUD in your goggles.
Additional (albeit potentially morbid but useful features)
Integration with a heart-rate monitor (dig out those who are alive first)
All this technology is already there, it just needs integrated into a single unit
Hmm.... I think I might require you all to sign an NDA... I may have to go and do some research now. I may be some time!
Yes, I thought that too (no, really! ) though I didn't think you'd want to rely on the GPS signal to do the tracking, but rather have your own tranceiver link into the HUD, presenting the tracking information from it.
The idea you suggest was more along the lines of something I was thinking of for skiing with friends, and it seems the Recon system can already do this to an extent if that is what the "buddy tracker" is?
I was thinking more along the lines of something more generic though for when you lose your friends in the trees (arguably as dangerous as being stuck in an avalanch where tree hazards are involved), using bumped up Zigbee to comunicate location between units, and SMS as a backup if you go out of range.
Shall we ask admin for an engineering geek ideas section?
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 25-09-12 19:04; edited 1 time in total
Sorry.. I'm a geek, and a bit of an inventor and entrepreneur so bear with me...
accelerometers and gyro-sensors in the goggles so that it can sense which way you're looking.
Using a smart-phone with an external hardware module which doubles as a waterproof case, extended battery pack and transceiver.
Using a combination of GPS from the phone and the transceiver signal from the pack, it can transmit it's location (may need to investigate if it's possible to piggyback a digital signal on the back of the analogue transceiver frequency)
In the event of an avalanche, you can quickly 'see' where anyone is buried with an 'augmented reality' HUD in your goggles.
Additional (albeit potentially morbid but useful features)
Integration with a heart-rate monitor (dig out those who are alive first)
All this technology is already there, it just needs integrated into a single unit
Hmm.... I think I might require you all to sign an NDA... I may have to go and do some research now. I may be some time!
...edit: actually. That HAS given me an idea, far simpler and potentially within my capabilities.. watch this space
BTW, though rf/analogue isn't really my thing, technically I think it would be easy enough to encode the signal because even though the tranceiver is lowish frequncy the data rate you require is also v low - you could probably think of quite a few ways to add this without any undue interference (there was a previous snowheads discussion on this some time back)
...edit. I'm off down the road to see Recon (who are here in Vancouver somewhere), and make my millions (or maybe not!)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
stuarth wrote:
Yes, I thought that too (no, really! ) though I didn't think you'd want to rely on the GPS signal to do the tracking, but rather have your own tranceiver link into the HUD, presenting the tracking information from it.
You'd not be relying on the GPS signal to do the tracking, it would still be using the 457Khz analogue signal for that, BUT if you can use the standard analogue signal to transmit the GPS locations and/or an indentifier, then a more intelligent receiver could distinguish multiple signals and give you indications of the areas to start tracking in for each.
As I understand it, even the most advanced transceivers go with the strongest signal first, which can then be 'bookmarked' so it ignores it before tracking the next. This system would allow mulitple signals to be tracked simultaneously.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
And the signal seems pretty basic.
Looks like a simple saw-tooth
on time: 70 ms minimum;
off time: 400 ms minimum;
period: 1 000 ms ± 300 ms (on time plus off time).
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
Take the Pebble watch technology and adapt to output to a HUD and Robert's your auntie's live-in lover.
feef - as a soon-to-be 'distributor' of the Pebble, I take umbrage at your felonius suggestion. Serious breach of copyright. It's 'open source' software for programming not 'steal at will'. Robert's your auntie's live-in lover is currently doing a five stretch in Wormwood Scrubs - go visit and listen to him blubbering.
Leaving that aside, I think there are two markets:
1) the backwoods men/women who would want the more techy side that you are describing (there's also the military side since what you are describing covers stuff already being tested under the FIST)
2) on-piste warriors for whom I would imagine phone and entertainment systems would have a higher priority
Either way I think quality earphones and a throat mike are prob needed (c.f. Oakleys tech).
I think your idea could work with interconnected remote modules working on bluetooth - you buy the module you need when you need it and the googles act as a common display. If you just want the speed and timing function you could buy that and add on a transceiver and GPS later if required for the back country, then an intercom, etc, etc. It would keep the initial cost down and make re-sales more attractive. The other obvious add-on is HUD Google maps.
fatbob, the Recons are really an off-shoot of military tech that has been (as is still being) looked at for soldiers going where they have not gone before i.e. 'off-piste' - it was not designed for red runs. Time/distance input is a very necessary tool if your other tech support goes down. Add a map and it really assists in working out where you are/are going. The HUD aspect was introduced to assist target location in an active environment. If you have your head down looking at a compass, you do not see the enemy aiming at you. The system also encompasses a squad leader function so relevant info can be passed quietly and at distance to the relevant squad members.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
RattytheSnowRat wrote:
Quote:
Take the Pebble watch technology and adapt to output to a HUD and Robert's your auntie's live-in lover.
feef - as a soon-to-be 'distributor' of the Pebble, I take umbrage at your felonius suggestion. Serious breach of copyright. It's 'open source' software for programming not 'steal at will'. Robert's your auntie's live-in lover is currently doing a five stretch in Wormwood Scrubs - go visit and listen to him blubbering.
I wasn't suggesting 'stealing' the technology.. It's just one of the best external insterface/display concepts I've seen and I'm sure they'd be more than happy to have a second outlet for their technology with a different display method. They've done all the hard work and if I said to them "sell me a load of watch internals without the casing or screen" they might well say 'yes'
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
RattytheSnowRat wrote:
...as a soon-to-be 'distributor' of the Pebble...
What's the ETA for the Pebble?
2012 or 2013?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Mike Pow wrote:
RattytheSnowRat wrote:
...as a soon-to-be 'distributor' of the Pebble...
What's the ETA for the Pebble?
2012 or 2013?
Kickstarter backers should get theirs this year. It'll be early next year for everyone else.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
This year - allegedly - but it depends on the colour for the actual delivery timings so I think I'm getting my set next year. I was sort of kidding about the distribution status but I am a Kickstarter at the Pebble 'distribution' level so I think I'm all there is at the moment. They are doing some pretty vicious quality testing at present - liquid nitrogen was the last I heard (the watch survived!).
feef, m8 - I was just kidding - I think they would be very interested in anything that widens the scope of their business but I would be surprised if their hardware would interface with/power a HUD 'as is'. Min. I would expect some form of power source upgrade and that leads you into all sorts of interference and V/Amp compatibility issues, especially at the scale you are talking about. Still, worth a punt. If you are serious keep me posted - I'm always game for looking at this sort of thing. I reckon it would be real Kickstarter territory as well now they are going to open up in the UK - we could be their UK 'Pebble' story! The one 'new' thing that comes to mind is I believe the Recons are 'aways on' as befits their military heritage. I would be looking to add an activation switch - prob voice controlled - to get over the 'get out of my bloody way' visual issues raised above and also to extend battery life as much as poss.
When I finally get my set of Pebbles I'll post something here. I'll be selling off some of them and I spec'ed a range of colours so start saving and beat the herd!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
A seethrough display doesn't have to be lens-filling either.
), but I do find the good balance between a peaceful chairlift and skiing down is conducive to thought, so would be good if I could read/review the odd pdf, or jot down some thoughts in MS OneNote.
