I felt like a heretic in VT this year. Christine in knee deep, unbashed heavy powder (and a fair amount of fog!) and it wasn't as enjoyable as I expected it to be. In fact it was damn hard work just staying upright and getting the turns in, I certainly wouldn't have hurt myself if I'd bowled over in it, but finding gear again may have been interesting! Was this a lack of technique (which I think) or a lack of equipment (didn't know where to post this!). Though I have my doubts as getting similar snow two years running if I do I'd like to enjoy it more. Any tips and thoughts on equipment would be appreciated. I ski on Elan Magfire 78 Ti's these are wider than my beginners skis and usually hold me up well in slush, but this deep snow didn't have as much support as slush.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum, In a word, both. I ski on skis from 74 to 112 and ski deep snow on all of them but it's much easier on the fat ones. Best bet is to stick with what you are used to, and rent some fatties for a play if the conditions are right.
The big problem with getting used to skiing deep snow, is that it's hard to get enough of it, especially for a 1 or 2 week a year skier.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 18-09-12 13:15; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum, speaking as a fellow amateur in this sort of thing, I'd say a) go a bit faster and b) don't lean into the shins of your boots so much as you would on 'normal' snow.
They're the two things that helped me get from 'what's all the fuss about then' to 'wheeee hahahahahaha'.
A quick tour of the net produces the following remarks about your skis:
Quote:
The real gain with this model is its off-piste performance. True, Magfire 78 Ti is not as good as its wider sibling that has a waist of 82 mm, but if you have a good ski technique, it can be compensated. These skis will keep you buoyant in deep snow, their asset being that they are lighter in weight than 82 model. Great setting for these skis would be just a few centimeters of powder on groomed runs.
More generally, people are for ever posting (rightly, IMHO) that, if you can ski well, you can ski well anywhere on any kind of ski.
In short, your problem is indeed most likely to be one of technique.
Megamum, I am rubbish in deep snow too. A lot of it, (OK, as well as having no technique), is fear. I am frightened of hitting something in the snow that I can't see - and going splat. I really can't blame the equipment.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum, I'm the opposite. I don't mind deep soft snow (as deep as it gets on piste which I accept is not very) but I'm rubbish at slush. I can't work out how to keep the skis from getting buried and stopping dead. I daresay it's a technique thing rather than an equipment thing. With soft powdery snow the skis still get buried but it doesn't seem to stop them in their tracks so much (i.e. it's slippery not sticky).
After all it is free
After all it is free
God knows what went on here - this was meant to be in BZK - could someone please shift it?
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maggi, I too fear going splat, not because I'm going to hurt myself, but because of the difficulty and sheer sweat-inducing faff of a) standing up again and b) recovering scattered equipment.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Pedantica, LOL that was the thread that had prompted my thought chain!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Hmmm - thought there was going to be a deep snow event
Skied powder on Elan magfire 70-somethings, and on Atomic (67mm?) GS skis but my 80-something Rictors felt better in the fluffy stuff. Powder is fine. For me it's the day after powder, when it's bumpy and strewn with bodies that's the problem (as well as my technique).
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 18-09-12 13:33; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The thing is to read skiing media deep powder snow is supposed to be the icing on the cake, but to be honest having done both I sooner ski boiler plate piste (and I didn't ever think I'd see me say that), than the much vaunted knee deep powder that we got this year and that sounds a shame.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
andy, it needs shifting I must have clicked into the wrong board by accident and now I am in deep powder!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Couple of things.
Wide skis can help you ski difficult deep snow better but standard EuroPow (you know, the 300kg/m3 stuff that normally falls out of the sky here) can be skied on anything from 60mm to 130mm waist and 130cm to 210cm length and wider is not necessarily optimal.
If you have poor technique wide skis may
i. help you understand and learn the correct moves, you can then apply them to other skis
ii. provide a nice crutch if you have poor technique
Heavy powder shouldn't be a problem on most skis. One or twice a season we get 100kg/m3 stuff drifting out of the sky and narrow skis are not great. Powder with a breakable crust is better on wider skis IMHO.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Megamum wrote:
Was this a lack of technique (which I think)
Yes, I think that is the case.
Tend to agree, and the comment about if you can ski really well then you can ski powder on thin skis, well you can but its a different technique on thinner skis than fatter skis.
The other little point that is always coming up on Snowheads is that in the past long thin skis were used off piste, very true but this was again a different technique, plus some of these long thin skis were only 50'ish underfoot so a total different ball game to 70'ish under foot, plus the whole shape of the ski has changed over time.
Speed is a certain factor, if your on thinner skis and going slow you will sink, however more important is to keep a more equal weight on both skis, there are lots of other things in the technique to think about but equal weight is a must. Weight forwards or backwards comes into it but its more about skiing a balanced position for the conditions, deep snow varies alot and you can not see as much of the terrain especially in low light. Just get in it an enjoy after all its nice and soft and does not hurt too much if you fall.
good example of 80 underfoot and flat light catching me out but think this would have happened even on a larger ski !!!!!
if you can ski well, you can ski well anywhere on any kind of ski.
In short, your problem is indeed most likely to be one of technique.
Yeah, I go by this but with the caveat that if there is quite a bit fresh snow then the slope needs to be of a certain gradient to be steep enough to ski.
There was a few times on the EOSB when you just couldn't get going because there was too much snow for the gradient of the slope. I am talking about red run gradient slopes not flat sections. I think that if I had wider skis it would have been a bit easier to get going but 99% of the time I am happy with the one pair of skis I have because:
> I don't ordinarily get that much snow on holiday maybe once every couple of years; and
> if I do get that much snow again I might try to rent some wider skis for the day.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
this was again a different technique
No, not really, or at least, not necessarily.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I suspect a lot of us struggle in deeper snow because we have got used to skiing with the skis further apart, and weight shifting fairly substantially onto the outside/lower ski. When I did some off-piste lessons I eventually managed (sometimes) the more even weight. My tracks mirrored the instructor's, over a short distance, but I still made 2 tracks and he made one.
That's something you can practice on piste - feet closer together, weight more even. I did find it pretty tiring following my instructor doing that, with short bouncy turns. Huff Puff!
I am going to do easiski's "intro to off piste" in January so look forward to getting better at it.
It is very reassuring to know that I am not alone in struggling with this deeper snow. It seems worse when its heavier. I've skied on something the consistency of icy dry icing sugar of a similar depth and it was lot easier than this heavier stuff we skied in this year.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
It seems worse when its heavier.
Yes, don't fall into the trap of thinking that un-bashed snow is "powder". Most of it is nothing of the sort. If you can make a snowball with it, it's not powder.
Also it does take a fair bit of practice to come to terms with deep snow. If it say took you 10 weeks to go from beginner to feeling comfy on various groomed pistes then why should you expect to get good on a new medium in just a day or two. The first few weeks I skied in deep snow I spent a considerable amount of it half buried trying to stand up
All part of the fun, and you seem to learn gradually without really being aware of it. I switched from 76mm skis to much fatter and found it helped a lot though. As suggested, hire something in the 90s underfoot on a snowy day and just persevere with them for the day, you may just click with them. Just don't try to make sudden changes in direction, that's what used to trip me up.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
One trick I've discovered recently is to lead a turn with the shoulders then work the twist down your body to your feet - like a torsion wave travelling down a Slinky. I don't know if that's descriptive enough but it seems to work.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 18-09-12 21:05; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Megamum wrote:
heavy powder
no such thing... powder is light and dry... fresh snow can fall which isn't powder...warmer the snow that falls the more water per m^3 so it is heavier.....
skiing snow that isn't groomed brings in a 3rd dimention... up and down... faster you go and on bigger skis the more you will stay up... slower you go on small skis the more you will go down.... but you know this right as you have been here for years.....
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I know this but still haven't mastered it... more pratice needed
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Go fast. Bounce around. Get a rhythm. Smile.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Balance, relaxation and practise are king.
Most vacationers slide like losers in pow.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
It's a state of mind - just feel it!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
You're all wrong - you can buy a turn if you buy the right ski.
.
.....it just might not be the right ski for the next turn so on balance lessons probably are better.
( & some beautiful looking untracked snow is just horrid if the sun/temp has just turned it but not done enough to make sweet sweet corn.)
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Megamum wrote:
The thing is to read skiing media deep powder snow is supposed to be the icing on the cake, but to be honest having done both I sooner ski boiler plate piste (and I didn't ever think I'd see me say that), than the much vaunted knee deep powder that we got this year and that sounds a shame.
It's definitely a technique thing. Hard to do much about that if you can only ski one week a year though. Fatter skis would likely help you enjoy it more, acting as a crutch, if you don't have the time to really learn (and would also let you avoid the 50-50 weight, feet together bouncing around - though that's also a skill/technique worth learning IMO).
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
altis wrote:
One trick I've discovered recently is to lead a turn with the shoulders then work the twist down your body to your feet - like a torsion wave travelling down a Slinky. I don't know if that's descriptive enough but it seems to work.
Oh dear no, that's entirely the wrong thing to do.
Maybe cool with the Austrians in the 1950's but certainly a very bad idea today with today's kit...
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
under a new name, I think that was possibly posted in jest.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum, yes it's your equipment - you need a snowboard.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
One trick I've discovered recently is to lead a turn with the shoulders then work the twist down your body to your feet - like a torsion wave travelling down a Slinky. I don't know if that's descriptive enough but it seems to work.
Oh dear no, that's entirely the wrong thing to do.
Maybe cool with the Austrians in the 1950's but certainly a very bad idea today with today's kit...
Interestingly copying this turn from a book written by an Austrian ski racer blighted my skiing for five years:(
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum, it's a technique and experience thing once you get that sorted it's a whole lot more fun. The heavier the snow the more demanding it is. Once you get it down though you'll be whooping about it along with the rest of us, then asking how you deal with clipping unseen rocks.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Thanks Mods/admins
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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meh,
I don't mind the rocks, it's the trees that get me
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
pam w wrote:
I am going to do easiski's "intro to off piste" in January so look forward to getting better at it.
I've been looking at that too. I've actually been meaning to spend a bit of time looking at courses that cover this sort of skiing as it's something I have no confidence in at all. Probably because the first time I tried skiing powder was an absolute disaster. I now have a lot more technique (thanks due to both Inside Out and New Generation), but unfamiliar conditions spook me.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
but my 80-something Rictors felt better in the fluffy stuff. Powder is fine. For me it's the day after powder, when it's bumpy and strewn with bodies that's the problem (as well as my technique).
but think this would have happened even on a larger ski !!!!!
