 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Ah well.. yet another idea that I've been beaten to 
I'll come up with a first yet!
(I still think there's mileage in the fibre-tube concept, just not the way that Kastle did it )
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Seen the Boheme up front and personal - they flogged them through Ogier in my village - but never skiied them. If I was going 'wood' and nopt us I'd def go with Idris - and maybe still will when I can afford it - I like his style and approach and craftsmanship!
| Quote: |
I was wondering earlier.... would asymetric camber work? more rocker on the outside edge so you've got a longer inside edge but still get the float, but it would also mean that your skis have a tendency to come together which COULD be handy
|
I was wondering something along exactly the same lines but upon thought I had a feeling that you would have adopt a skiing style which was constantly differentially adjusting for the same degree of movement which I thought would make life a little too interesting. Not that it couldn't be done, just that it may require a little bit too much change for the average skier. I was, however, assuming the attack angle of the camber would be symmetrical and only the side cut distance from centre would change so the effective contact edge for the ski would be different on either side of the waist under foot. I even think you could go as far as removing the waist from the inside edge altogether (I always tend to power the turn from the outside edge anyway). It would mean moving to old skool turns on piste and moving away from modern teaching about a wider stance. You could however shorten the ski, widen it a little in the spoon and shovel, raise the rocker a touch and that would mean you would have a fairly nice piste ski which still held it's own in the powder and had a sharpish turn if you needed it in either whilst maintaining a reasonable amount of total contact area to create good float off-piste. Possibly a step to a more balanced all-mountain ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
RattytheSnowRat, sounds a bit like what Bataleon do with their triple-base; different areas of camber on in different areas of the board. Would apply to skis similarly to how you describe (i think) if you were to treat their design as a split-board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
That Amphibio doesn't come over as being that distorted around the centre or having much waisting to the ski at all. It also looks short. The rocker's looks like it's short and tight which may explain how they can claim the camber/rocker combo - it's all in the first 250mm. Creating the former would not be an issue as the ski's would be 'left' and 'right' automatically depending on which side you pressed them on a dome shaped former - you'd just have to keep track of them (which should be pretty easy). I've got ski's where I've popped the edge metal under foot and simply created a 'left' and 'right' ski to make sure I put the minimal amount of pressure on the repaired section. I had them differentially sharpened and angled which was interesting -still skied them to death, unfortunately 
We could make one of those easily.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Richard_Sideways,
wasn't ignoring you - our posts crossed.
Creating variable camber isn't much of an issue either, again it's just getting the former shaped correctly.
Various companies over the years have created orientated skis - I've still got a pair of GS Sallies from back in the pre-elliptical days that are geared left/right - Salomon kindly put tips protectors on to indicate the correct foot. They were camber orientated at the rocker to 'initiate' the turn 'correctly'.
I think the issue is at the moment that all the teaching and ski building are orientated to a wider stance and 'two leg' turning i.e. you edge with the inside edge of the uphill ski much more than in the pre-elliptical ski days. The Ampohibio seems to acknowledge this by seemingly not messing with the waist/camber under foot and confining itself to the turn initiation part of the ski under the rocker.
The split board thing - well, yes - that's more or less what you have to do with a split board going uphill I suppose but there's no real advantage when you are pounding uphill. The difference will come on the downward leg but at that point you splitboarder gets his split, tip and tail hooks on and removes the inside edges. They would still have the the added float that the flat inside edge gives but without the rigidity of a true snow board.
I have a lot of respect for the splitboard in practice but I think the concept is really a bit of a cop out. The reason they had to adopt the splitboard approach is the reason why skis are skis in the first place. I think it would have been more honest to snow shoe in and then board out with full on snowboard like they used to do.
I am interested in a sort of split board concept for ski's, taking the dimensions of split board and creating a true inside edge - sort of like an extended/lengthened set of snow blades. I think these might actually be the ultimate 'in-forest' - a whole new genre of skis!! They might also be really useful for the back country given their portability. They would suck a bit of piste, tho'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
right.. before we all get too carried away, should we start looking at what we need to do, what we need to do it with, and when it should be done by?
shall we start with the press?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| feef wrote: |
right.. before we all get too carried away, should we start looking at what we need to do, what we need to do it with, and when it should be done by?
shall we start with the press? |
I'll bet you haven't even considered what colour it should be, yet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Serriadh wrote: |
| feef wrote: |
right.. before we all get too carried away, should we start looking at what we need to do, what we need to do it with, and when it should be done by?
shall we start with the press? |
I'll bet you haven't even considered what colour it should be, yet. |
Black anodised alloy components and polished stainless steel structure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| feef wrote: |
| Black anodised alloy components and polished stainless steel structure. |
The press designs I've seen before have included a chunk of firehose and big slice of girder (presumably non-stainless). Possibly this isn't the only way to build a press, of course!
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 9-10-12 11:50; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Serriadh wrote: |
| feef wrote: |
| I'll bet you haven't even considered what colour it should be, yet. |
Black anodised alloy components and polished stainless steel structure. |
The press designs I've seen before have included a chunk of firehose and big slice of girder (presumably non-stainless). Possibly this isn't the only way to build a press, of course![/quote]
yeah.. I was just thinking of the most bling and expensive way of doing it 
Would still need firehose.
With regards to that, I was envisaging folding the end over a couple of times having filled it with a neoprene adhesive and then a couple of full width bar stitches it with some synthetic top-stitch thread. That should make it pretty much bomb-proof and also mean that the hose 'outside' of the stitched area can be punched out and attached without compromising the air-tightness of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Hrm. I would have thought a metal clamp would be easier to engineer than suitable gluing and stitching, and has the minor advantage of being minimally destructive. I have absolutely no idea of the forces involved, however.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Serriadh wrote: |
| Hrm. I would have thought a metal clamp would be easier to engineer than suitable gluing and stitching, and has the minor advantage of being minimally destructive. I have absolutely no idea of the forces involved, however. |
I might clamp it to hold it, but not to rely on it being airtight.
Bear in mind that stitching on your seatbelt is more than strong enough to hold your body in a car in the event of a crash.
Also, if it's stitched using the correct needle, one that goes through the weave rather than piercing the fibres, then the only 'destruction' is to the liner internal coating, which will be sealed with the neoprene adhesive. It works a little like rubber solution on puncture repairs and actually becomes PART of the liner rather than just sticking to it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
I wasn't doubting that stitching and gluing can be strong I was more thinking about how well a stitched and glued joint would resist the expansion of the pipe without leaking.
I was thinking of an S-shaped fold of hose, with 4 metal bars run ladder-like through it (one in each curve, and a top and bottom) and all four bars held together with a high tensile bolts at each end. I guess getting it compressed down tightly enough in the first place might be awkward; maybe you'd need some sort of single screw press built into one end, and then it starts become a bit of a contraption and gluing and stitching seems significantly simpler.
No idea where you might get firehose, either. Someone has driven a bunch of bulldozers through our nearest firestation, and is now building what appear to be a bunch of houses on the site, making it tricky to ask the locals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
As i am bored at work, standard diametre flat firehose is available on ... eBay! expect to hand over between £50 and £100 inc delivery for new ones.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
What's the 'standard diameter'?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Think fire brigade standards are 2" 2.75" and 4". Unsure what the operating and max pressure ratings are though, particularly for your application as you'll be loading from the inside and outside.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
shall we start with the press?
|
I think PR and marketing comes later in the process, doesn't it??????
The firehose we will use will be both glued and clamped. We can stich it as well but I think this may be a step too far. It will be glued because feef is correct and it will be clamped at both ends because we want the bloody thing to stay more or less exactly where we want it to and it will have a tendency to ping off in all directions if we do not. Luckily the two methods are mutually compatible and reinforce each other so all's well, etc.
The Kam's use approx 18cm diameter hose and must use a double length to cover both skis. I think we need to go larger if possible so that we can do snowboards at some point but it's up to the others (I'm still going to try and snag some large diameter damaged hose from a local firestation if poss).
I, too, am bored at work but I do have stuff to do so I'll sign off for today. Cheery-bye !
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Sourced 2 x 10m of 105mm diameter (approx 4") never been used firehose for £75 delivered - are we good with that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
What will the hose expand to? As obviously we don't want to be restricted to 105mm for width of the ski
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
is it 105mm diameter when inflated or 105mm when flat?
105mm when flat will be quite a bit narrower when inflated. 105mm when inflated will be quite a bit wider when compressed in the press.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
What will the hose expand to? As obviously we don't want to be restricted to 105mm for width of the ski
|
you use bits of hose side by side and fill them from the same compressor at the same time to equalise the pressure
| Quote: |
is it 105mm diameter when inflated or 105mm when flat?
|
No idea - to be honest I don't think 10mm either way is going to make much diff to us is it?
I believe that this is the largest standard fire hose we do in this country (in the US they prob do it bigger but we all know about their hang up in that department) and ITS UNUSED! Doesn't come any better than that in the UK as far as I am aware. She ain;t keeping it and all the rest of her stock has gone so .....?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
if it's a 105 diameter pipe, thats the internal diameter, your circumferance is a nats under 330mm, so your flat width is half of that at 165mm, less a few mm either side for thickness.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| adamj11 wrote: |
| What will the hose expand to? As obviously we don't want to be restricted to 105mm for width of the ski |
Clearly the solution is the 'splitski'.
Skinnies on the way up, so less weight on your feet and cheaper skins. Then you attach the second half of each ski and enjoy the benefit of fatties on the way back down. I imagine the bindings could be on a plate that forms part of the combining mechanism, so they can always be positioned on the centreline of the ski.
There will be no charge for my awesome ideas, and incidentally torsional stiffness is obviously a crutch for people who can't ski and like to blame their kit 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
To take your idea further, you don't need to worry about attaching the two skinnies rigidly. It just means they both cant and set an edge, giving you twice as much edge grip, Two edges per foot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Serriadh,
do they allow you to access the internet directly in that nice place they are holding you or do you have to dictate to someone who inputs for you? p.s. stop biting the straps, they are for your own good.
Not feeling the love re: the hosepipe situation, people. Shall I buy it or what?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| RattytheSnowRat wrote: |
Serriadh,
Not feeling the love re: the hosepipe situation, people. Shall I buy it or what? |
Just want to be sure it's wide enough.
I suppose it would be good enough to start with, at least to set things up. If it turns out we need a wider one in future, then we can deal with that when the time comes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I would be the first to hold my hand up and say my hose knowledege is minimal but there comes a point (not a fire point I should add) where I think the increasing width of your hose becomes subject to the law of diminishing returns. Holding out for the widest hose, I am reliably informed by female friends, is a long and often fruitless occupation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| RattytheSnowRat wrote: |
| I would be the first to hold my hand up and say my hose knowledege is minimal but there comes a point (not a fire point I should add) where I think the increasing width of your hose becomes subject to the law of diminishing returns. Holding out for the widest hose, I am reliably informed by female friends, is a long and often fruitless occupation. |
Your female friends are wise in the way of ski making... (and we all know women are always right anyway)
Go with what you've found and we'll take it from there.
Might as well start somewhere
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Hi guys!
Looks like I have joined the conversation late. I started a post on skibuilders a few years back and couldn't drum up the interest in doing this at the time - http://www.skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2063&highlight=
Anyway, I'm now in South London and would be happy to join in. I'm a Mechanical Engineer by trade which basically means I sit at a desk and let other people get their hands dirty! Would be more than happy to give you some design input in exchange for some practical abilities.
David
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
dalamb84, the more the merrier as far as I am concerned. Welcome!
So far the only declared def's are feef, adamj11 and myself although the planning is in the early stages. General consensus so far is that we first build a ski press and use sourced wooden cores (I'm going to try bamboo and mulberry as well) to trial it's function before getting too elborate. As you can read further above we are each going to work on our own projects as well as a 'co-operative' ski or two. I'm pushing for a modular former to be made up so that we can re-form (sorry for the pun) as needed. Any observations/opinions happily received. We are planning to go 'postal' on this after the 2012/13 season has concluded {sob} to get skis ready for the start of the 2013/14 season {huzzah!}.adamj11 is out of the country at present but shall return! Hopefully some others e.g. tomb - will announce their undying commitment to the project in due course (prob after the press is up and working).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Looking in my calendar, I've got a first aid course in November, I'm away in Tignes only two weeks after that, and I've still got to get my motorcycle cleaned, repaired and the engine given a once over after the race this weekend.. so if I'm quiet, you'll have to excuse me
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Just learned that the project I am working on (estimated length at start: 4 months starting August 2011) is now estimated to complete March 2013 - IF everything goes OK. Am now contemplating the possibility of only being able to ski at weekends - maybe - as I have no one who can deputise for me! So if I'm quiet, you'll have to excuse me - I'm ramming my head repeatedly against a very solid wall.
Bought the hose - it's sppossed to be in transit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| RattytheSnowRat wrote: |
Bought the hose - it's sppossed to be in transit. |
Nice one..
I've also bought a ford transit diesel lift pump.. While this doesn't immediately sound relevant to the project, it does mean I can get the van running, get it MOT'd and out the workshop to make space for the press and whatnot
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
It's all part of the grand and cunning plan, m8. I supect the van may prove useful in sourcing press related gear in any event so the pump gets my vote. I have all my own mororcycle related projects on the go as well. I'm taking a giant leap forward this weekend as I've located a specialist motorcycle metal guy and he's agreed to see me on Sat! Now, if I can only stop the petrol leaking out where it's not supposed to ......
On topic - we need to get this press up and running asap to stop me acquiring more skis/bindings, etc - it's gettting very silly. I think the next step is to source the RSJ's - given the time frame we could just pick them up one at a time - there seem to be a lot of people on e-bay that are willing to let them go for way under the market price as long as you cart them away pronto OR we can source from the numerous bods in the midlands who seem to have stacks of these things. Since we don't need the span I am thinking that for the 'legs' and 'ends' we could cut a deal for 'off-cuts', so to speak - they are only worth scrap to whomever is trimming RSJ's and we could pick them up and save the seller a trip?? I need a small bit of a large RSJ to make an anvil as well. Anyone got any ideas?
{takes a break and starts pounding head against wall}
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I see a guy today on FB offering a custom printed top sheet for ski's and boards. The photo was a Paris Hilton image that looked very good. Presumably a vinyl wrap of some sort. Custom ski's for very little $$$
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I can see this thread has gone on for a while and was going to throw something into the conversation. 20 years ago I was skiing on 195cm, my height 172cm- we all remember those days. After the carver generation of skis, things appear to be getting longer and wider but also heavier. I am surprised by the lack of use of carbon in skis, although I know there are a few skis out there that integrate carbon into the design. I am a windsurfer where lots of carbon is used throughout the equipment. I don't know much about the technical aspect of using it, but what i do know is that there are an awful lot of windsurfers out there with parts of broken carbon masts. My question is, could these be recycled in some way and integrated into the ski to make them lighter?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Spinout wrote: |
| My question is, could these be recycled in some way and integrated into the ski to make them lighter? |
not easily.
The resin used to bond composites is pretty resilient stuff. Even with GRP, it's VERY hard to do anything with it. It doens't biodegrade, it's resistant to chemicals. For example, it's said that every single fibreglass boat ever made is still afloat somewhere unless it's been physically holed and sunk or has been on fire.
The only way I could see it happening would be to take slices of the mast, but the masts have much thicker walls than would be used in a ski laminate, and you're also left with the curvature of the wall to deal with.
Nice idea, but totally impractical I'm afraid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Spinout wrote: |
| I am surprised by the lack of use of carbon in skis, although I know there are a few skis out there that integrate carbon into the design |
Whilst you have to go into boutique ski builder land to see pure carbon skis (pmgear and dps) there are a many more skis that use a hybrid glassfibre and carbonfibre layup; this is a pretty common pattern used by manufacturers of all sizes.
| Spinout wrote: |
| there are an awful lot of windsurfers out there with parts of broken carbon masts. My question is, could these be recycled in some way and integrated into the ski to make them lighter? |
Two things spring to mind here. Firstly, the actual weightsaving of carbon in a hybrid ski design is minimal; you add it for its mechanical properties. I may be wrong here of course
Secondly, old carbon fibre composites are full of broken fibres and old resin. Separating the fibre from the resin is likely to be chemically unpleasant and sufficiently expensive and energy-consuming that you may as well spin a fresh batch. But if separation were possible, you'd end up with a large number of damaged or broken fibres which would limit the strength and toughness of the final recycled composite... and in the case of masts, the weaving is cylindrical, so you'd have to unravel the whole thing and reassemble it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Better to look at sports like archery where people are trying to build items with spring and flex rather than light & stiff. So to speak
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
