 Poster: A snowHead
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Well I've never heard of him but it appears Ivan Petkov who died a few days ago never got the credit he deserved for inventing but not properly patenting the first shaped ski - the 'S Ski' which had a profile of 113-61-91 in 1993. The design was taken over by K2 and put to winning competitive use by a certain Bode Miller.
More info and some astounding pics here:
http://www.expertskier.com/ivan.html
http://www.epicski.com/t/113502/anyone-remember-the-s-ski
I learnt to ski in 1996 for 3 days on shortish carving skis in Breckenridge. When I got back Snow & Rock sold me some 205cms straight cut K2 GS skis "because they're better for you than these new designs". I spent one very unpleasant day on them on my next holiday before renting Head Cyber 18 carving skis. As soon as I got home I took the K2's back to S&R and exchanged them for Head Cybers under their ski suitability guarantee. They weren't happy but I was.
If I'd had to have continued on straight skis I'm sure I would have given up the sport.
Thanks, Ivan, you changed the game and have given me (and hundreds of thousands of others) a lot of pleasure. RIP. 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 14-09-12 1:49; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's funny, if I'd been asked to guess, I'd have guessed that carvers were invented quite a bit before 1993. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Elan SCX 'Super-Sidecut' ski was produced and available in '91 based on research by Jurij Franko and Pavel Škofic (who worked for Elan) in the late '80s
And wasn't the S Ski an Atomic product? I believe the K2 model was a copy or variation of the Atomic S Ski
Digging some more, the SCX was only available in Europe in '91. It was sent to the US for evaluation in '93 so if these sites are US based, that might explain their belief that the K2 product was the first
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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feef, there's a comprehensive history of shape development here http://www.skiinghistory.org/index.php/2011/08/evolution-of-ski-shape/
There's clearly more to it than one person's ideas and the Elan SCX was around in 1991 but was still 203cms. The S Ski was only 187cms long with the same 15m turn radius which I guess was pretty revolutionary for the time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Elan were certainly first....
It wasn't until about 1997/98 that most regular punters started using carving skis and they became common place. My first pair of carvers were some K2 black magic's (variant of the K2 IV). Bought them in 1999 in a summer sale for £100.... Great skis!
| Quote: |
| When I got back Snow & Rock sold me some 205cms straight cut K2 GS skis "because they're better for you than these new designs" |
The funny thing about the 'carving revolution' is that between 1998 and 2004 the marketing men keep telling us that shorter skis, circa 150-160cm, with a super side cut were what everyone required. For carving short radius turns on piste such skis were great. Off piste these short skis were twitchy and lacked stability at speed - and the older style 200cm stiff skis actually worked better over a variety of conditions.
There is a case to be made that the 'carving revolution' damaged people's ability to ski all mountain conditions and terrain but made it easier to carve on piste. Funnily enough this was about the same time that snowboarding took off - and looking back it is easy to see why people of that era switched over.
Even now people seem to be scared of longer skis (180cm+) for off piste conditions....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Haggis_Trap, its funny you mention that because the timeframe almost exactly overlaps with when I was snowboarding from about '94 through '04. Although I learnt and skied offpiste on long, skinny, straight skis before that.
Now I wouldn't ski on anything under 180cm that wasn't at least 100mm underfoot.
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Good article there - as it says Kneissl Ergo were also one of the first carvers - I bought some in 1993.
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Raceplate, good link. The Sunday Times 'We learned to ski' book, first published in 1974, has a chapter on carving - not for racers and experts, but everyone - and a nice little demo - cut a curve in a stiff piece of paper, bend it, and track it across a carpet to make a turn. Ali Ross, who features a lot in the book, seems to have been teaching carving way back; clearly, even with minimal sidecut, the old skis could be carved.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FoulNative, yer carving wasn't invented with the skis it's just they make it considerably easier.
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Ivan was also the owner of Hot Gear Bag so you can thank him for warm boots too
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Not to be confused with a hot pocket.. Alabama or regular.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I did a presentation on the history of the carving ski about 10 years ago. I'll try and find it as I'm sure there was attributable evidence of a carving or shaped ski to an American guy in the mid 1980s.
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| feef wrote: |
| Not to be confused with a hot pocket.. Alabama or regular. |
A mans obituary to an Alabama hot-pocket in 11 moves *applause*
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You know it makes sense.
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Well, as someone has already said, all skis have been a bit shaped and it was possible, though difficult, to carve with old skis. My skis in the attic from 1958 have a sidecut - it just isn't very obvious, How much do you have to have for it to be considered a "carving" ski?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| FoulNative wrote: |
| [The Sunday Times 'We learned to ski' book, first published in 1974, has a chapter on carving |
I think the Sat/Sun Times serialised extracts from an Ali Ross book. I remember reading his skiing tips in the Times when I was a teenager. He was definitely preaching a carving technique way back then.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowball wrote: |
| Well, as someone has already said, all skis have been a bit shaped and it was possible, though difficult, to carve with old skis. My skis in the attic from 1958 have a sidecut - it just isn't very obvious, How much do you have to have for it to be considered a "carving" ski? |
Good question. These are possibly attributed to Sondre Norheim - I say possibly because the site the pic is from is in Norwegian....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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See US patent 5405161 to Petkov.
1. A ski comprising:
a tip portion;
a tail portion including a back edge;
a waist portion between said tip portion and said tail portion wherein the maximum width of the tip portion is greater than 1.5 times the minimum width of said waist portion and greater than 1.05 times the maximum width of said tail portion; and
inside and outside edges originating at an apex of said tip portion and terminating at said back edge, wherein at least one edge comprises a complex curve including;
a first straight portion between said tip portion and said waist portion, wherein said first straight portion tapers toward a longitudinal axis of said ski near said waist, and
a second straight portion between said waist portion and said tail portion, wherein said second straight portion tapers toward said longitudinal axis near said waist portion.
So that's a carving ski in patentese.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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dobby, good research! What year was that?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Raceplate, 1994.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Chasseur wrote: |
| snowball wrote: |
| Well, as someone has already said, all skis have been a bit shaped and it was possible, though difficult, to carve with old skis. My skis in the attic from 1958 have a sidecut - it just isn't very obvious, How much do you have to have for it to be considered a "carving" ski? |
Good question. These are possibly attributed to Sondre Norheim - I say possibly because the site the pic is from is in Norwegian....
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Hey look, the Salomon BBR...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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There is plenty evidence the original skiers from Telemark in Norway used side cut on their wooden skis in 19th century (and hundreds of years before that too). Think that would have coutned as 'prior art' in trying to patent the concept.
Carving is a technique that can be done on any ski though... (even a 205cm Rossi 9x).
it is basically an entire turn performed on your edges with no skidding.
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Haggis_Trap,
I've still got some 215 racing skis in the garage. God knows what the turn radius of those is but I bet it's similar to the QE2.
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