For our honeymoon we are thinking of a snowboarding trip to Japan - yeeahah!!!
It appears that there are not many operators offering packages to Japan. Does anyone have any recommendations, or is it better to arrange everything separately?
Thoughts please!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sounds fun.
When are you planning on going?
How long are you planning on going?
Do you just want to snowboard or would you also like to see other things whilst you are in Japan?
Is budget an important element?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
We would like to go December or January - for about 10 days. A stop off in Tokyo for a day or two would be good, but otherwise want to get as much time boarding as possible.
Budget is important, from they few package tours I have managed to find on the internet it looks like around £2,000 per person is the going rate. Which we can manage but it seems a lot. Is it better to go independent?
In terms of timing I would say the snow is likely to be a lot better in January than December. Also avoid New Year. So possibly looking at week beginning 5th/6th January.
A big choice you need to make is whether to go to Hokkaido (Northern Island - which has more packages these days tha Honshu) or Honshu (Mainland). If you want to spend a couple of days in Tokyo (which is a lot of fun) then you would either need to get a flight to/from Sapporo (for Hokkaido) or a train up to Nagano (for much of the mainland skiing - though ther are more options than that).
Japan Ski Experience http://japanskiexperience.com/ seem to be very good. A friend of mine used them last winter for booking flights out here. I understand they can tailor trips to your requirements, certainly including a few nights in Tokyo would be no problem. It'd probably be slightly cheaper, and certainly easier than arranging things yourself separately.
I wanted to come to Japan for my honeymoon when I got married a few years back. Now I've been living in Hokkaido for over two years, and it still feels like a honeymoon!
feefi, nozawaonsen, has put a link to my post (third one down), we did Zao followed by Shiga Kogen, both fantastic and different, Zao is a great resort and the town is right on the slopes and exactly what you would expect of Japan, Shiga Kogen is more spread out, there is one area where they don't allow boarders, but its quite small and at the far end, its where we stayed, from Shiga you can also get to see the snow monkeys,which makes it a bit different the bus is covered by your ski pass.
we arranged everything our selfs, train passes and accommodation, ski passes we bought on arrival.
For information SnowJapan is a good site, a bit like Snowheads.
We loved it.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
We did a combination of Japan Ski Experience and diy in March 2011. Everything ski related was organised by Ben from Japan ski experience, he is great. All flights and the rest of our Japan trip was done by us. Flew to Tokyo, spent a few days in Tokyo. Skymark flight (low cost airline) from Haneda to Sapporo. Best snow for a week. We flew from Sapporo to Kobe and stayed a few days in Kyoto, a day in ryokan in Hakone (hoping for Mt Fuji view) and shinkansen back to Tokyo. It was a brilliant holiday in a great country. If I was going to make the same trip again , would've stayed in Kyoto in ryokan instead of Hakone and probably stayed a day longer in Kyoto and left Hakone for a warmer month.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Buy this book....
Seems to be the best english language printed resource on Japan.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Haggis_Trap, its pretty handy we used it as well, also the lonely planet guide to Japan
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
teh URL for Snowjapan, highly recommend it to get info on resorts and any snow info http://snowjapan.com/
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thanks everyone for the replies, this has been very helpful. I've bought the Snow Search Japan book and have been reading the links.
I've also been in touch with Japan Ski Experience, to get started they have put together a package for Niseko which would be for 9 nights, flying out on 15th December.
Can anyone comment on what the Niseko snow conditions would be like in December? It's a long way to go so I don't want pay all that money and miss out on the famous powder. Would it be better to look at other resorts if we go in December?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
There was I, about to make a DIY recommendation but the place I stayed looks like it has closed http://www.niseko.gr.jp/eigoryuinn.htm
I suspect Ryu has retired.
Still, it was a while ago, but I did DIY: flights to Tokyo, Japanese equivalent of a railcard, stayed in various ryokan.
FOr a honeymoon, you might prefer something which takes the stress out of self-organising, but DIY is certainly achievable.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
feefi, dont compromise your trip by only going to niseko , make sure you get to Tokyo and Nagano resorts as well , we did four nights in each and had a wonderfull time ,and in my opinion , at times of less snow , the skiing was better in Honshu . It would be a real shame to go all that way without seeing more of this wonderful country
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
feefi wrote:
I've also been in touch with Japan Ski Experience, to get started they have put together a package for Niseko which would be for 9 nights, flying out on 15th December.
Can anyone comment on what the Niseko snow conditions would be like in December? It's a long way to go so I don't want pay all that money and miss out on the famous powder. Would it be better to look at other resorts if we go in December?
Based on the above your first day on snow would be 17 December.
For each December period please find the amount of snow prior to your proposed first day of skiing (01 December - 16 December) and the snowfall over the course of your proposed stay (17 December - 24 December)
Niseko Resort Area snowfall recorded at approx 300 m asl
2006
01 Dec - 16 Dec = 180 cm
17 Dec - 24 Dec = 65 cm (5 snow events; biggest 24 hr snowfall of 25cm)
2007
01 Dec - 16 Dec = 206 cm
17 Dec - 24 Dec = 99 cm (8 snow events; biggest 24 hr snowfall of 25cm)
2008
01 Dec - 16 Dec = 124 cm
17 Dec - 24 Dec = 67 cm (5 snow events; biggest 24 hr snowfall of 22cm)
2009
01 Dec - 16 Dec = 114 cm
17 Dec - 24 Dec = 180 cm (8 snow events; biggest 24 hr snowfall of 50cm)
2010
01 Dec - 16 Dec = 103 cm
17 Dec - 24 Dec = 63 cm (7 snow events; biggest 24 hr snowfall of 20cm)
2011
01 Dec - 16 Dec = 221 cm
17 Dec - 24 Dec = 169 cm (7 snow events; biggest 24 hr snowfall of 44cm)
Snowfall can never be guaranteed but Hokkaido is the area with the most consistent snowfall I've had the pleasure of skiing.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
feefi I've recently come across 'Ski Safari - Tailor-Made Skiing.'
Here's an example of their Japan trips - which seem pretty good value - from £1999 for 14 days bed and breakfast, inc. flights. And that's to ski 3 Hokkaido (ie bumper snow) areas and including trips to (and stays at) Tokyo and Kyoto.
I have only used skisafaris website, i asked for a quote online yesterday 8pm, this morning at 9am a very nice chap phoned to clarify a few things, the quote ended up cheaper than the neilson one so we will likely use them for this years holiday.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think the key word is "from".
Be interested to see what the real price is for the pre-christmas period.
I looked at Lufthansa for my January flights and they didn't work out because of the timings. All their cheap options arrived in Tokyo too late for the onward journey as you would have arrived in Sapporo to late for the transfer services to Niseko. They did have flight options via Munich which arrived in time for the onward journey to Niseko, but they were more expensive than other carriers.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
I think the key word is "from"
Would never have guessed that .....Still thought that, even if it was the 'from' price, £2k was a decent price for what you would be getting.
I'm booked up for this season but am considering Japan for 2014.
I am someone who skis with a group of friends almost entirely off-piste (and in Europe), mostly with guides who we hire for 6 days, looking for the steep and deep. We particularly love tree skiing.
From looking at a few websites I'm assuming Niseko is where we should go. Is it all fairly gentle skiing? Can anyone recommend where to go for guides. Do they tend to go with a package or does one go to a guiding company or independent guides?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
snowball, There's not much in Niseko that is especially steep and in general you don't get long runs as the top of the peak is at 1300m (village is at 300m), so quite a bit different to what you're used to skiing in Europe. Lots of the off-piste does not need a guide as it is all fairly obvious.
Deep is not a problem!
After all it is free
After all it is free
The resorts / ski areas of the Shiribeshi area of Hokkaido - Niseko Resort Area, Moiwa, Chisenupuri, Rusutsu, Kiroro, Sapporo Kokusai, Teine - are not known for their steeps.
They're known for their deep powder, great tree skiing and above treeline bowls. The pitch tops out at 35 degrees.
If you want steep & deep then it's lift accessed skiing and touring at Kurodake, and touring in the Tokachidake area in the centre of the island.
Or head to Honshu and the areas in and around Hakuba.
If Hokkaido is your thing then check out the following:
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rob@rar, I gather Niseko and nearby is the place for out-of bounds - is that true there as well? I gather lots of those ski films of people "pillow" skiing through trees were taken in the area.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Mike Pow, thanks.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowball, Mike Pow is the expert, but yes some of the ski porn of skiers bouncing down pillows was filmed in Niseko (Mike, in the Strawberry Fields area?). A lot of the off-pistye skiing is accessed through gates controlled by Pisteurs. Sometimes these are closed if a big storm has gone through and ducking under the ropes is not advisable, but I understand that other than those controls Niseko is more relaxed about out of bounds skiing than some other Japanese resorts.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
snowball wrote:
rob@rar, I gather Niseko and nearby is the place for out-of bounds - is that true there as well? I gather lots of those ski films of people "pillow" skiing through trees were taken in the area.
I'll jump in.
The Hokkaido sections in the movies are for the most part filmed in and around the Niseko Resort Area
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
snowball, It's nothing like Europe, but that is part of it's appeal. I've been once and would love to go back!
you won't get any couloirs or any standing at the top shaking in your boots runs.
But (unless it's an exceptionally bad year) you should get many days with 40cm+ fresh, and fresh lines most of the day with a short boot pack and/or a traverse inc night skiing where they light up so much of the main runs you can ski off piste in reasonable vis.
If you take skins and hire a guide (and no doubt mike can advise more) there is more fresh to be got at if it doesn't snow for 24-48 hours. We saw folk boot packing up an opposite peak in the 2 days we had without fresh.
You can hopefully get an idea of what we skied last year (all without a guide)
I'm interested also in recommendations for resorts (other than Niseko, as am there in late Jan/early Feb) esp on Honshu for Feb 2013.
Am busy looking at various places, and Zao and Shiga Kowen also Nozawa Onsen (home of great and tad geeky weather forecasters) def amongst them for a 3-4 day trip, using train from Tokyo to get there v pref. Priority bar easy train access being a more Japanese vibe than apparently Niseko has, character resort and not too fussed about size of ski area, but pref w access to some off-piste w/out guide.
radar, any views given above thoughts re merits of Zao or Shiga from your experience, or both being an equally good fit w maybe the snow monkeys clinching it?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
To get to Shiga Kogen by train: Shinkansen to Nagano, then local train(Nagano Dentetsu) to Yudanaka Onsen, then bus to Shiga. If you have a lot of luggage then may be better to take a Shiga bound bus from Tokyo. In case you do not already know, Shiga is a collection of small areas now under the same lift-pass......most of the access is ok on snow but to get to some areas you will have to take a bus. If you want to visit the snow monkeys you can stay in Yudanaka or Shibu Onsen.....in the latter your ryokan will give you a key to the village's 9 public onsen which, depending on the waters, will cure any gout, rheumatic, optical,mental, etc problems you may have if you stay there for about a month! You could also stay in the above two onsen and go up to Shiga every day by bus.....40mins?.....and enjoy more of a Japanese vibe. A lot of the accommodation in Shiga is western style.....but there are a few onsen.
To get to Zao by train: Shinkansen to Yamagata, then bus to Zao onsen.....or bus from Tokyo. One of the 10 Classic Japanese Ski Areas (Nozawa is another) in old onsen towns; Zao's waters are good for skin problems, quite hot with a strong sulphur content. Skiing is for intermediates and ski patrol are active on weekends to prevent people going into the trees etc......weekdays you might have the place to yourselves, give or take a few hundred people. Thanks to recent Japanese successes in world cup moguls events there are bumps courses at the side of some of the slopes.
If you have more time head further north to Appi, Shinkansen to Morioka then bus, a newer area designed for fast skiers, with good gradients by Japanese standards. Or try Getou Onsen, between Morioka and Sendai....if it opens this season, financial problems! known in the Osaka area (they are rather careful with their money) as 'the poor man's Niseko'.
If you have to toss up between Shiga and Zao, go to S.
Feefi: recommendations? I'd wait until later in the season.....skied Niseko at Christmas in 2010 and there just wasn't enough snow. I'm a member of a Japanese ski club and we have reluctantly had to accept that winters are arriving later and have cancelled our annual first ski of the season trip, second weekend in December in Zao.
Of course this season there will be huge amounts of snow and Zao will open as in years gone by about Nov 16th!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
kitenski, Mike Pow, thanks: the terrain in the first 2/3 of the Nimbus video looked great - otherwise a bit flat but I expect the snow quality might make up for that. I do actually enjoy the challenge of difficult snow but just being able to go fast without having to allow for being thrown about by lumps under the surface is a fabulous luxury.
I'm assuming we would be OK inbounds without a guide, but what about out of bounds? Mike, knowing our usual pattern of 2 days without guide then 6 days with (and we are happy skiing much of the mountain off-piste over here on our own - including anything on those films) what sort of guide/not guide pattern would work for us, do you think?
I haven't, in any case, done a "shaking in my boots" run for years, so I do hanker after getting a group who like steeps together in 2014, but that's another matter. But I've felt that feeling sometimes climbing up or down much less steep things with skis on my backpack. I just hate that. I want to get my skis on and feel in control.
By the way, is Strawberry Fields named after the Beetles song (like Murakami's novel Norwegian Wood)?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowball, they have a gate system into the backcountry which they keep shut if they are concerned about Ava's but its still proper off piste but easy to follow your nose and get back to a lift. Some gates allow a boot pack to a peak.
There is also a closed out of bounds area where you have to attend a lecture to get a bib and then ski it, but once again no guide needed. I'd say you only need a guide when the obvious stuff is tracked out. We did 8(?) days without a guide and had great fun and good snow
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
snowball wrote:
I haven't, in any case, done a "shaking in my boots" run for years, so I do hanker after getting a group who like steeps together in 2014, but that's another matter.
Base yourself in the Tokachidake area and tour. More than enough steep terrain.
So too above and below the quad chair at Kurodake.
Or head to Hakuba on Honshu.
Quote:
kitenski, Mike Pow, thanks: the terrain in the first 2/3 of the Nimbus video looked great - otherwise a bit flat but I expect the snow quality might make up for that. I do actually enjoy the challenge of difficult snow but just being able to go fast without having to allow for being thrown about by lumps under the surface is a fabulous luxury.
The majority of skiing on Hokkaido is 300-600 vertical metre shots of between 25-35 degrees through beautifully spaced birch forests with the occasional above treeline bowl thrown in for good measure.
Most of the time you'll be skiing untracked or lightly tracked and not set up boot top to chest deep powder of the highest quality.
That is Hokkaido's raison d'etre.
Quote:
I'm assuming we would be OK inbounds without a guide, but what about out of bounds? Mike, knowing our usual pattern of 2 days without guide then 6 days with (and we are happy skiing much of the mountain off-piste over here on our own - including anything on those films) what sort of guide/not guide pattern would work for us, do you think?
The Niseko Resort Area is well skied with established bootpack / traverse lines in and out of the marquee runs.
As kitenski has written you don't need a "guide" to ski most of what Niseko has to offer (btw most companies in the area advertise guiding services but most are not certified guides).
At other resorts, the bootpack / traverse lines in and out of the goods are not as well established / obvious and you could hit up a resort and not get the best from it. Someone to show you round could improve your experience considerably.
Quote:
By the way, is Strawberry Fields named after the Beetles song (like Murakami's novel Norwegian Wood)?
Thanks Mike. By not having done a "shaking in my boots" run recently I meant I haven't felt nervous. I have done some quite steep routes - for example La Voute at la Grave last time and various others similar. What guides take you on does depend on the least good skier in the group, though.
I'm starting to think about 6 days in Niseko (possibly unguided or 1 day guided) followed by about 3 days in Kurodake (guided) might be something like a good plan? Perhaps with a Japanese culture day - I'm not sure where?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Be advised that the Kurodake ropeway is closed January and February.
Mike Pow, Black Diamond and Powderhounds feature it on their website and don't mention that! Strange.
When do you ski using the ropeway then? Can the two places be combined? I'm not really a tourer - I just walk an hour or two a day max to get to good runs.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
KURODAKE
The village (Sounkyo) is at approx 600m.
The ropeway takes you to about 1350m.
Then there's a double chair that takes you up 1550m.
You can then hike above the double chair to the peak, 1984m
The person on snowjapanforum wrote that it re-opens early March. I've emailed them to find out.
Is the light Japanese powder mostly during January and February? In other words are the 2 resorts non-compatible from my point of view?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Looking at Kurodake's website, it seems the ropeway and chair are closed from Jan 7th. The ropeway re-opens Jan 24th. The chair stays closed until Feb 21st. I've always believed the shutdown period to be longer than that, but those are the dates posted for 2013? I'll probably be up there early season before the shutdown, so will try and find out for sure.
Worth a trip but maybe tricky to get to without your own transportation. There are buses from Asahikawa but I'm not sure how frequent they are. There is some good steep terrain, especially in the trees back into the gorge, and with a bit of a traverse from the top. Worth getting someone to show you round, a lot of the lines into the gorge end with big cliffs.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
.....Still thought that, even if it was the 'from' price, £2k was a decent price for what you would be getting.