 Poster: A snowHead
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I will be needing to get an elderly relative to LaRosiere for a family gathering. Most of our luggage will be travelling with other members of the family in a car, leaving me free to make things as gentle as possible for the 88 year old. A winter holiday in the Alps is something she has always dreamed of!
I have (probably) discounted the snow train because it only runs Fri/Sat, has no sleepers and reports from friends say its not a quiet journey. First class is rather prohibitive cost wise. Train in any other combination means getting across Paris at least, and maybe other train swaps.
I am inclined to think flying into Lyon and stopping there overnight before taking the train to Bourg (hopefully to be met by family in car for trip up the mountain) may be the best option, Family may be able to pick us up from Geneva but again I think we`d need to stay overnight. I can`t seem to find much in the way of flights into Chambery.
I'd appreciate any thoughts on the subject and any information on suitable hotels would be good. Bear in mind walking any real distance is not an option.
Thank you
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CaravanSkier, I wouldn't contemplate putting such an elderly person on an overnight train - sitting in a seat. 
I wouldn't risk Chambery either - it's too often disrupted by bad weather, and you get shunted off to another airport.
Personally I'd go for Geneva, because being Swiss, it's more reliable than Lyon - and closer to Bourg St Maurice. A family member with a comfortable car would be the kindest solution to a transfer, otherwise a private taxi. If timing permits, it would be better not to stop overnight - having to go to a hotel, unpack, sleep in a strange bed, find your way round a strange bathroom, etc etc etc - not great for such an elderly person. Getting from the UK to La Rosiere by air and car/taxi transfer, then having "arrived", in the same day, would be better and shouldn't be too much effort if there is somebody to help at every stage of the way.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SCaravanSkier,
I think Lyon has got to be the easiest way. Then Either bus or train to Bourg St Maurice, then taxi.
If you do go via Geneva, make your stop over in Annecy, because its beautiful!
I don't know Geneva.
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pam w I quite agree, it was the lack of facilities for sleeping that put me off the overnight snow train. Interesting about Chambery, thank you. Doing it all in one day may simply be too much. We have an hours plus run to the airport at this end and an early start just would not be practical. I doubt we could arrive at Geneva (or Lyon for that matter) before mid to late afternoon. It must be 2 to 4 hours drive to La Rosiere ( I have to factor in food and comfort stops) and I don`t want to be going up from Bourg in the dark in a snow storm. But you make a good point about strange bed etc so that maybe a long day would be better. Hmmm difficult!
Thank you DrLawn, I agree Annecy is beautiful. It appeared from information on the Lyon website that transfer from the airport to the train was very easy but although I have flown back from there to the UK I was delivered to the airport by car so have had no cause to experience the train connection.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CaravanSkier, what does your elderly relative think? They might have clear ideas one way or another, about an overnight stop versus a long day.
Annecy can be a lot less beautiful in the winter, by the way. Can be rather drudgy and cold - much colder than La Rosiere, if there's a temperature inversion. There are any number of hotels, of all standards, an easy shuttle from Geneva airport.
I suspect train transfer won't be that easy - this is France, not Switzerland! We had to consign family members to a train when we got to Grenoble airport to find it closed by a strike. We drove them into Grenoble and we put them on a train supposedly going to Geneva but they'd been given duff info. They were stopped at a station for a while but couldn't understand the announcements. Thankfully a fellow-traveller overhead their English conversation and advised that they'd have to change. They then had to swap platforms, up and down lots of stairs.
You should do the journey Geneva - La Rosiere in 3 hours, even with a comfort stop. A French taxi driver will probably do it in less, and will know the best comfort stops, too. And if it's snowing, he'll sort it out.
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CaravanSkier, if you're going to use the train, Lyon is probably better. The train station is part of the airport and a 5-10 minute walk (or use one of those electric carts maybe) depending which terminal you come in on. Direct trains to BSM are about 4hrs and run 2-3 times a day. Timetable on http://www.raileurope.co.uk/Default.aspx?tabid=1543. There is a new Nh 4* Hotel (haven't stayed but gets good reviews) right opposite Terminal 1 if you want to stay overnight or The Kyriad 3* is on the airport complex. The airport is a long way from Lyon itself.
If you go to Geneva the train station is also on the airport complex (5 mins) BUT you have to take a train or taxi to to Geneva central to get a connection to BSM so it's nearer 6 hrs. Geneva's a nice place to stay if you want to see the lake etc before moving on and the airport's pretty central but it'll definitely cost you more than France. Car transfer from Geneva's only about half an hour shorter.
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Pam w my relative says she will leave it entirely up to me and has expressed no preferences, other than the occasional perhaps she won`t go after all. However she gets pretty exhausted by a 3 hour car journey in the uk and does not like car travel, hence my interest in the train as far as Bourg. I take your point about ease and efficiency though, in respect of French verses Swiss. I`m afraid though that I don`t share your confidence in French taxi drivers. Yes I`m sure one would deal with the conditions but my relative may well still end up terrified. Thank you for your comments though, its all very useful information.
Thank you for that information Raceplate. I am a little confused in respect of Lyon air/train transfer, I believe I might have to change trains at another Lyon station, do you have any experience of that? I did not know there was a station at Geneva airport, I had been told it was a taxi ride to the station, but I had worked out thats its a long run to Bourg with a potential change or two. I think I have dismissed the train from Geneva, it would need to be by car from that airport.
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Hi CaravanSkier,
Even if your relative prefers train travel, the journey to La Rosiere by train from either airport is not practical for someone of that age.
Travelling from Geneva requires two train changes, including waits, and then a change to a taxi up the mountain (there is a station at the airport but then you have to change in central Geneva). Travelling from Lyon requires less faffing but most trains still require a change at either Lyon central or Chambery, including platform change, and then changing into a taxi at Bourg St Maurice.
I have done this journey a few times with my grandmother (we live in Bourg and she is 90!) and the easiest option we have found is:
- travel to Uk airport the afternoon before and get an airport hotel with a free bus to airport in the morning (english food and staff, no faffing trying to find it etc etc - much less worrying and faffy than an overnight stop on the swiss side)
- book a morning flight, check in online, and travel with only hand baggage so that you can go through passport control as soon as you arrive. If she has difficulty walking most UK airports provide a little electric car thing to take you to your gate.
- fly into Geneva and have someone (relative, private transfer etc) waiting in Geneva airport so that you get straight into the car when you arrive. There is a 30min parking outside arrivals so we normally call when we land and my partner fetches the car and parks it right outside the terminal.
-Try and avoid hire cars if you can as these are quite faffy and you can end up adding an hour to the journey whilst standing in the airport checking the car, scanning credit cards etc
If you are concerned about mountain roads with French drivers, then there are plenty of British run companies who offer transfer services. You can write to them and explain your situation and they will ask the driver to take it slowly on the mountain roads.
I hope that helps a bit - good luck!
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| Quote: |
I did not know there was a station at Geneva airport
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yes, there is a station - you need to go into the town station to get anywhere, but trains run constantly. But it's a big place - as are airports.
My mother did some journeys out to the Alps. She could walk a bit, but had balance problems and used a wheeled walker. She had done a winter trip with the wheeled walker earlier, but as her balance problems deteriorated she couldn't cope with even the thought of icy pavements and having to walk up snowy paths to accommodation.
Her last few trips were summer trips. One time we organised disabled/wheelchair assistance for her at both Gatwick and Geneva. My sister put her on the plane in Birmingham and I met her in Geneva, but she flew on her own. she was amused to be with some very fit wheelchair tennis players and to have been asked by the nice lad who helped her in Geneva whether she was part of the team!
The next time, though, she didn't want to fly unaccompanied - her confidence diminished as her medical problems (hind brain hernia) exacerbated the balance issues. My sister flew with her, and by then she had her own wheelchair, which made life much easier as we could take her all sorts of places - to visit Lake Annecy, for example. We could push her up paths which would have been impossible in winter - and were very hard work in summer - I have huge respect for anyone who manages to push people round in wheelchairs competently.
You will no doubt think of assisted transfer at the airports (it seems to work well, although there can be some "does she take sugar?" moments) but you might also think about hiring a wheelchair, if your elderly person would agree to that. The miles of walking, and the hours of waiting, are far easier that way and the elderly person can sit with their own bag on their lap, to ease the baggage problem. With a wheelchair, you could maybe take your elderly person out for a tour of La Rosiere (won't take long!) and a coffee and cake, or meal, out. It wouldn't be easy, but without a wheelchair she could be confined to barracks. They are not too expensive to hire - get the lightest folding one you can find. Airlines will carry them free.
My mother could walk, with an arm, for short distances - and had to, sometimes, when manoevring the wheelchair would have been too difficult with her in it. We used to say "Ok you lazy cow, out you get, we're not pushing you any further". Got some funny looks from passers-by.
Toilets were a problem because of the propensity of French mountain restaurants to have loos down a flight of narrow stairs. But as long as they had handrails, she could generally cope. In one place where the loo was especially difficult I asked the waitress for help and she took us to the staff loo - through the kitchen.
I have faith in French taxi drivers to get you up the mountain but you're right, they can do it a bit fast sometimes. I've found that telling them very firmly that I will be sick if they don't slow down round the bends usually does the trick! But if you have the kind of weather which sees you having to put snow chains on before tackling those bends up to La Rosiere, you might be glad not to have to do it yourself. Even if you are good at chains, you will find your elderly person becoming anxious. Anxious about you being out kneeling in the snow at temperatures of minus 10, then anxious about the whole undertaking. Taxis generally seem to get up the mountains OK without chains - combination of having the right vehicle and tyres, and panache/confidence!
Where are you staying in La Rosiere? Your accommodation might be able to recommend a sensible, reassuring, kind of taxi driver. They do exist - I know one local to my apartment.
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| CaravanSkier wrote: |
I am a little confused in respect of Lyon air/train transfer, I believe I might have to change trains at another Lyon station, do you have any experience of that? |
Yes, sorry, looking again at the current timetable it's one change at Chambery with a time between trains of around one hour depending on the time of day. Winter timetable isn't published yet so I can't comment. I haven't done the journey myself but I used to do airport minibus pickups from all the airports in the region so I know the layouts well. I guess it all depends how infirm your relative is; at least with an hour between trains there's no rush.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thats very true, I wonder if there is a warm, comfy waiting room at Chambery?
My Aunt is OK walking for 5 10 mins, slowly, over even ground, any thing more is difficult. Very cold air is not too good either. IF this had not been something she had always dreamed of doing we would not be doing it. It may not be a very sensible idea but I am trying to organise it as sensibly as possible.
I am leaning towards flying into Geneva, if I can co ordinate a family pick up!
Why oh why does the overnight snow train not have sleepers! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My Aunt is OK walking for 5 10 mins, slowly, over even ground, any thing more is difficult. Very cold air is not too good either. IF this had not been something she had always dreamed of doing we would not be doing it. It may not be a very sensible idea but I am trying to organise it as sensibly as possible.
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Don't give up - it'll be wonderful, though not easy to organise. If she can only walk for a few minutes, slowly, over even ground I wouldn't dream of even trying it without a wheelchair. It'll make a huge difference and reduce the anxiety.
Snow and Sunshine's suggestion of an overnight in a UK hotel is worth considering, though personally I'd not go for that if you only live an hour from an airport. There are loads of really good airport taxi companies which will pick her up from home and drop you right at the airport entrance.
Don't worry about the transfer drive in France - it won't be difficult to find a reliable firm/driver, once you've decided on your travel plans.
I would still advise against French trains - especially if your aunt can't do stairs. The fewer forms of transport she has to wait for, then climb in and out of, the better.
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I don't think you should instantly reject going by overnight train. The only draw back is having to cross Paris by taxi to get from the Gare du Nord to the Gare Austerlitz - but you could always book a taxi to avoid having to queue at the taxi rank. That way she can sleep through most of it (if she can sleep on a slightly firm couchette). Mind you, she would have to share with you and 4 others (or 2 by paying a shade more) unless the old sleeping cars with 2 to a compartment are still available. Personally I have a back problem and travel everywhere with a roll of memory foam nowadays for hotel as well as couchette use. I find the couchette is much like some of the firmer hotel beds -though narrower. Then bus or taxi from Bourg, of course.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 6-09-12 13:51; edited 2 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| CaravanSkier wrote: |
Thats very true, I wonder if there is a warm, comfy waiting room at Chambery?
My Aunt is OK walking for 5 10 mins, slowly, over even ground, any thing more is difficult. Very cold air is not too good either. IF this had not been something she had always dreamed of doing we would not be doing it. It may not be a very sensible idea but I am trying to organise it as sensibly as possible.
I am leaning towards flying into Geneva, if I can co ordinate a family pick up!
Why oh why does the overnight snow train not have sleepers! |
Yes - Geneva and family pickup and or private transfer - I used to drive transfers from all the main airports in the western alps - Geneva is the ONLY one with sort of amenities and facilities close at hand that you will need/want - sure it costs more but I'm sure when the time comes that won't matter.
Chambery has no proper facilities, ok not completely true, but cheap and cheerful and just adequate on a tuesday afternoon would be about fair.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I somehow missed Snow and Sunshines very useful post, thank you S&S.
After reading all your helpful information, thank you very much everyone, I believe it will be a flight into Geneva! Once I meet up with my husband (driving down in 4x4 probably with two of our grown up sons plus at least one girlfriend) I will feel much happier that my Aunt will be OK over any terrain. My only worry on that score is coordinating that meet and how comfortable we would be 6 or even 7 up if my other son flies in at a similar time, for the remaining part of the journey, Even with the roof box on it may not work! Also I`ve done the run from Calais to the Alps enough times to know of the many problems that can cause delay, ironically one year we got off the ferry and had to put snow chains on right at the start of the autoroute! We did not have to use them in the mountains that year at all!
It may be that we have to kick the youngsters out of the car onto a transfer bus or something? Hmmmm more possibilities
We are staying in Le Refuge at La Rosiere and so far the staff have been very helpful. I am considering weather to add catering to our booking, (prices for this year are not available yet) but my Aunt likes the idea of eating out each night. There is a lift in the chalet and underground parking so we would take the car to the restaurant, hopefully meaning only a short walk across snowy ground, assisted by strong lads, to get inside.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
My only worry on that score is coordinating that meet and how comfortable we would be 6 or even 7 up if my other son flies in at a similar time, for the remaining part of the journey
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Hmm. I can see your concern. I've driven that route from Calais many times, and also done a lot of (private, unpaid) pickups in Geneva, Grenoble and Chambery airports, sometimes in heavy snow.
Never, however, have I tried to combine the two!
A private taxi transfer for the flyers into Geneva, leaving the car driver to manage the journey as best he can, without added logistical problems, would be my choice.
What are your travel dates? Probably should have asked that before.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm pretty sure there are daytime trains to BSM from Paris and daytime direct Eurostars. Crossing Paris (if you have to) is not really a big problem. 15-20mins in a cab or a short ride on the RER
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| CaravanSkier wrote: |
Why oh why does the overnight snow train not have sleepers! |
I assume you mean without having to change in Paris? I still like the sleeper train since you ski 2 extra days for the same number of nights. The change in Paris isn't that hard.
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I did indeed snowball. The change may not be hard but it is an extra. I`m not saying its not possible, indeed I have discovered that I can book a sleeper carriage for just the two of us, what I can`t find out yet is the cost. This holiday will not be cheap but I am trying to work within some kind of budget.
Thank you Arno, as far as I can work out from timetables (some are not yet available for the time I am talking about) though there may be at least one additional change at Chambery?
Pam w I am nervous of posting exact dates on a public forum, but it will be peak period.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Never, however, have I tried to combine the two! |
I've combined the two, picking up a mate from Lyon on my way to VdI from Calais. I was the one hanging around though 'cause the flight was delayed from the UK.
Lyon's less hassle than Geneva for this; no detour as you're driving past Lyon airport anyway on the way to the Alps and no need for a Swiss vignette. You could also put the youngsters on the train at Lyon and either pick them up again at BSM after dropping the Aunt off, or they get a taxi from there to La Rosiere. Train journey should be a doddle for them with no luggage.
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CaravanSkier, i'll take trains over planes whenever possible, but if you can get to Chambery with only one change, that seems a lot less hassle than dealing with airports and a fiddly train journey to get from the airport to the resort. if you take a transfer service from airport to resort, that could be a decent option
one more thing to think about is whether you can change at Lille rather than in Paris. your choice of destinations from Lille is more limited but a change of platform is all that is needed at Lille rather than crossing a town with the change in paris
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At Easter this year four of us drove out to Termignon picking up a fifth on the way at Chambery. (We reasoned that a Mondeo would be too cramped for five to travel all the way). It worked fine but, again, the flight was delayed so we had to wait.
An advantage of this method is that the flyer can get away with minimal luggage thus making life much easier.
Assuming they are okay with flying, I think this is a resonable solution.
Alternatively, does anyone have a caravan and the time to drive it there slowly? Yes, it's a long way but, if you have the time to take it slowly, it can be interesting.
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Thanks folks again useful information!
Altis for many years we bundled the kids in the car and towed our large twin axle caravan to the snowy Alps, heading for wherever the snow was good. We had some super, and very cheap, ski holidays. We stayed in Bourg-St-Maurice a couple of times amongst other, higher, places places. In travel terms, it had the distinct advantage that with accommodation in tow you could simply park up at an auto route aire and sleep when you wanted. However that would not suit my Aunt, she needs a tad more luxury at her age.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
no detour as you're driving past Lyon airport anyway on the way to the Alps and no need for a Swiss vignette.
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not for me - I never go near Lyon on my way to the Alps, nor the horrible A6, but usually take the A40 past Geneva (that route doesn't need a Swiss vignette as it's all in France, though obviously you do for the very short detour into the airport, if you want to use the motorway).
CaravanSkier, I don't know why you're nervous of putting dates, but if you are stuck with Saturday travel at New Year or any of the French holiday weeks, all bets are off with transfer times etc It once took me 1.5 hours to get from Geneva airport to the French border, on Christmas Eve. It normally takes very few minutes. And I've been driven up to La Rosiere, on the first "cheap" Saturday in January, past miles and miles of stationary vehicles coming down from resort, in a coach which had had chains on from long before BsM. 
I can imagine how your aunt would react to being asked to sleep in a caravan in the Alps in winter!! 
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I have done a train transfer from Lyon. After landing at the airport, get the shuttle bus into the town cetre (the TGV station at Lyon airport is a bit of a white elephant). We stayed in a hotel in the town centre before getting the early morning train out. By booking a hotel you can get the direct train from Lyon to Bourg st. Maurice.
The hotels in town also have vacancies any day of the week.
I hope your aunt enjoys her holiday. If a 3 hour car drive tires her she will be exhausted by yhe time she gets there. At least she can get a free lift pass.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
not for me - I never go near Lyon on my way to the Alps, nor the horrible A6, but usually take the A40 past Geneva (that route doesn't need a Swiss vignette as it's all in France, though obviously you do for the very short detour into the airport, if you want to use the motorway).
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Why will you be on the A6? The route down past Bourg en Bresse is very good and takes you directly past Lyon airport.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The route down past Bourg en Bresse is very good and takes you directly past Lyon airport.
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my normal route past bourg en bresse takes me onto the A40 well east of Lyon. Calais - Lyon via anything but the A6 south of Macon is a little bit of a detour, I think, though maybe worth it, to avoid the A6, if you absolutely have to go to Lyon. Even with the new bit of motorway, the worst hold ups still seem to occur around Lyon - I'd only go that way if I couldn't avoid it. When I've picked up people over that way, it's been at the airport laughingly known as Grenoble by the likes of easyJet.
The A40 alternative is better now that the motorway south to Annecy is open.
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Pam w I simply don`t want advertise when I`m away from home. Our accommodation does run Sat to Sat at a peak time, but I am happy to book a hotel for the Thurs and Fri the first week if necessary, there still seem to be some very reasonable deals at both the Ferny Voltaire side of Geneva airport and at Lyon. Indeed also near to the train terminus at Bourg.
One of the more fun routes to the Alps in winter is through the Jura. We often went that way to stop off and visit relatives.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I can imagine how your aunt would react to being asked to sleep in a caravan in the Alps in winter!! |
I wasn't, for a moment, suggesting this. I just had in mind using the van for the travel. It would be an familliar, uncomplicated environment all the way. Time consuming but very flexible.
CaravanSkier, if you intend travelling with her then also consider flying and hiring a car. It isn't (at least used not to be) that expensive and would be simple and convenient. Don't be put off going via Chambery. I know some have been affected by bad weather but I've been through there numerous times without problem. Also, it's a very small airport and, although it can get crowded now, it's far less intimidating than the bigger places. Lyon is much bigger but has plenty of space. I may just be lucky but I've never known it busy. Geneva, on the other hand, I hate with a passion these days. It's always crowded and disorganised and, to me, feels like a very hostile place.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A hire car from the airport has been considered but I have been put off by reports (not just on here) of how time consuming and fiddly it can be to collect one. It would also be surplus to requirements for the time we are in the resort as we will have the 7 seater, it would also require parking. I suppose hiring from Lyon and depositing it at Bourg may be a possibility?
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Poster: A snowHead
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It is no hassle at all hiring a car from the airport. At Lyon you do have to get a bus from outside the airport main entrance and it can be a very long walk from the gate to the main entrance. At Geneva it is much easier but suprising complicated. You have to go up stairs to the departture lounge then through a narrow coridor to France and the car hire is straight in front of you with a nice cafe beside it. You walk down the stairs to where the cars are parked. A trasfer, even using the train and a night in a hotel will probably cost more and be more hassle.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
One of the more fun routes to the Alps in winter is through the Jura. We often went that way to stop off and visit relatives.
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I often go that way if the weather's good, and in daytime. Came back that way two weeks ago; lovely drive, though there's a tedious diversion which took a bit of extra time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It is indeed a lovely drive, I much prefer that route myself. and comparable time wise to going all the way round on the auto route, at certain times and in good conditions.
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I've flown to Geneva a couple of times and used the regular coach to Bourg. Costs about £100 return and takes just under 3 hrs with a 15min stop at Moutier. Quite a nice journey as well, not much motorway. If they did that there may be no need for an overnight stop.
More info http://gare-routiere.ch/
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you martinm, its good to hear personal experiences of how it works.
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So with lots of ummmming and ahing I have decided to fly into Geneva arriving mid afternoon, on a Friday, now to consider the transfers. I am getting on line quotes of around £250 - £300, does that seem about right? I would be grateful for more experienced opinions. It seems a bit expensive to me but I don`t have any experience to base my opinion on. 
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That seems about right to me if it is for a door-to-door private transfer.
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OK thanks Snow and Sunshine
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If you do use Chambery it's only a few minutes by taxi to the train station. But I think (not sure) all the trains to Bourg are stopping trains and it takes quite a while. But it's easy.
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CaravanSkier,
It does sound expensive but if you can get a private transfer from Geneva to La Rosiere for £250 that really is a good price.
Are the flights booked? I would have thought the Eurostar day train as Arno mentioned earlier in the thread would have been a good option. Whenever I have picked clients up from the train station in Moutiers they have always enjoyed the experience. Eurostar advertise it as a direct link, the train departs London or Ashford mid morning and arrives in Bourg St Maurice before 7pm in the evening. Then you are just faced with the transfer from the foot of the hill up to La Rosiere.
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