 Poster: A snowHead
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Me too. But better to find out earlier than later 
To elaborate, my aim is to get my students to a point where if they want to develop further then it's time for me to recommend a more experienced and skilled instructor to them.
From an economic standpoint, this takes a while. And as long as I continue to learn and my relationships with my students are strong then this timeframe is extended.
I'm in the very fortunate position of returning to an area year after year and teaching students who do the same.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimastaaah, avoiding the question again, I see. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar,
He's obviously an academic
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| musher wrote: |
rob@rar,
He's obviously an academic |
+1 ^
I deleted my last post as upon review I thought it a bit too cutting and maybe rude, so thanks to Musher for summing it up so succinctly.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Might be worth the 50 quid for enlightenment alone 
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Paypal only please
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rob@rar, Not avoiding, just got bored.
BTW Rob, you got 27000 plus posts, ranked 6 most posts, that's 9.328 posts every day for the past 8 and a half years. (Not withstanding your other forum posts)
You must be sat on you backside all day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimastaaah, avoiding the question again. Or maybe you can't answer it...?
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rob@rar, shouldn't you be buying wierdo penny CD's at the moment? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| skimastaaah wrote: |
| rob@rar, shouldn't you be buying wierdo penny CD's at the moment? |
Not sure I understand the reference, but rather than doing some mental arithmetic about my post count wouldn't you enjoy a discussion about ski teaching a bit more? You seem passionate about it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Naaahhh. I'll let the young guns strut their stuff. Let them learn however-whatever they want.
*bows out*
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 10-09-12 12:55; edited 1 time in total
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Thanks, but still not sure about your reference. Anyway, the offer of discussing teaching strategies still stands, but as this thread has got silly and is in danger of getting surreal it's probably best that I vacate it, perhaps until it gets back on topic.
Edit: As you've changed your post in an edit I should point out that my thanks refers to you posting some sort of CD image, I think. Unfortunately it still didn't help me understand your reference, but c'est la vie.
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You know it makes sense.
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skimastaaah, appears to have some way to go if he hopes to become a decent teacher. Insulting your students doesn't seem too clever a way to start. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimastaaah, what teaching organisation are you with?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimastaaah, I thought you'd bowed out? Anyway, don't you worry; just keep re-writing history and you'll probably be absolutely fine.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Blinkety flip. All I wanted to know was how to ski a bit better than my current slow skid-parallel efforts. Thanks for all the sensible answers. Is it possible for an OP to terminate a thread? Cheers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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dobby, alas not. Apologies for my part in derailing your thread 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, no worries. Got lots of sensible input (including yours).....now I have to put it into practice.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Fifespud, and OP and Juggler. These other guys seem to have had a slack weekend with some good single malt to consume and they are getting to the point of banging the bar table. I will go back to your interest in the Skivolution weeks in Nov/dec. Fifespud might well feel at home as the Boss is Dave Beattie from Arbroath and coming from the same country could be a good thing but then it's a different county and they might still be at war.... .
But anyway, they run sat-sat, from 10Nov to the last week beginning 8 . Dec About 30 people each week. 5 Instructors, all BASI trainers or other top BASI grade, English, Welsh and Scottish. They can find a space on all weeks at this stage. Website shows the varying emphasis on each week. All-Mountain is the common thread and this on my weeks links into Technical ...just what is it that makes a turn and how is it best done in varying conditions?. Race training weeks are specialised and (with respect to the earlier posters, )a bit dedicated to those who do that thing. The ability range has been extended to blue run skiers very successfully but the main body are intermediate or towards advanced. The groups are graded so you are with comparable level. And everyone has the learning desire, in my experience. There is a good mix of males and females and ages run from twenties to fifties and even above (I hasten to add ).
Dave tells me he has lost just one day to bad weather in 5 years pre-season in Kaprun. Morning transport leaves 8.20 , top of hill 9.00 coffee, ski with trainer til 12, lunch and poss video, then afternoon ski with trainer til perhaps 3.30 and maybe more video. Same trainer all week. Hotel honest half-board 3 star with sauna . Various places open in the evening and merrymaking is not unusual. Website shows a pretty true picture. Tracey is back in on Monday for booking and I have to ring and make my payment for 8th.
I get pleasure (and nothing else) out of extolling its virtues as this training has brought me on a lot and has got me into a more proper use of the modern ski (which some of my regular ski-mates haven't got, despite being nominally advanced, certainly in their opinion ). It sets a good platform for any subsequent weeks in the season. See also Skivo 2 for their main-season holiday and learning operation in Courchevel.
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| Farley Goode wrote: |
Fifespud, and OP and Juggler. These other guys seem to have had a slack weekend with some good single malt to consume and they are getting to the point of banging the bar table. I will go back to your interest in the Skivolution weeks in Nov/dec. Fifespud might well feel at home as the Boss is Dave Beattie from Arbroath and coming from the same country could be a good thing but then it's a different county and they might still be at war.... .
But anyway, they run sat-sat, from 10Nov to the last week beginning 8 . Dec About 30 people each week. 5 Instructors, all BASI trainers or other top BASI grade, English, Welsh and Scottish. They can find a space on all weeks at this stage. Website shows the varying emphasis on each week. All-Mountain is the common thread and this on my weeks links into Technical ...just what is it that makes a turn and how is it best done in varying conditions?. Race training weeks are specialised and (with respect to the earlier posters, )a bit dedicated to those who do that thing. The ability range has been extended to blue run skiers very successfully but the main body are intermediate or towards advanced. The groups are graded so you are with comparable level. And everyone has the learning desire, in my experience. There is a good mix of males and females and ages run from twenties to fifties and even above (I hasten to add ).
Dave tells me he has lost just one day to bad weather in 5 years pre-season in Kaprun. Morning transport leaves 8.20 , top of hill 9.00 coffee, ski with trainer til 12, lunch and poss video, then afternoon ski with trainer til perhaps 3.30 and maybe more video. Same trainer all week. Hotel honest half-board 3 star with sauna . Various places open in the evening and merrymaking is not unusual. Website shows a pretty true picture. Tracey is back in on Monday for booking and I have to ring and make my payment for 8th.
I get pleasure (and nothing else) out of extolling its virtues as this training has brought me on a lot and has got me into a more proper use of the modern ski (which some of my regular ski-mates haven't got, despite being nominally advanced, certainly in their opinion ). It sets a good platform for any subsequent weeks in the season. See also Skivo 2 for their main-season holiday and learning operation in Courchevel. |
Sounds very good and not dissimilar to the Warren Smith in Verbier. The problem with Verbier in early Dec is the snow is not guaranteed so the extent open can be limited - I would reckon Kaprun is a bit more snow sure.
Plus you can't help but love Austria.
I think I've heard of Dave Beattie now I think about it - I'm actually from Carnoustie which is 7 miles away. I quite fancy the race training - the discipline of the gates is excellent.
Cheers Farley - might see you there!
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Take a look at your inbox Dobby
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting to see that when rob@rar started to get irritated, the posts both started with "sorry mate".... May be worth bearing in mind if you're in a lesson consistently getting things wrong! Could be a buzzword that you need to try harder haha! 
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Despite all the well-meaning and sometimes good advice above the one thing that is going to improve your skiing no end is being at top level fitness prior to hitting the snow. That does not mean cycling (although that obviously helps); it does mean ski specific exercises. If you think about a top skier’s physique and that of a top cyclist they differ massively. You need to do a lot of stretch as well when you warm up and warm down prior to the exercise and the skiing. Face it, tired muscles trying to do what they do not normally do means you tend to make more mistakes and thus do not learn as fast and fall more often. Technique is all well and good but if you are struggling physically it’s going to be tough. Ideally you should be able to do 100 jumped knee raises at one session whilst wearing ski boots or similar weight prior to hitting the slopes. Also remember that you are cycling at roughly sea level but skiing significantly higher. You need to be fitter for that alone.
There is one other thing I don’t get. You say to travel by bicycle 80-90 miles per week. I presume this is on the public highway shared with motor vehicles of all types. You will be travelling at about skiing pace less than 1 metre away from 1 ton+ vehicles moving much faster than you yet you profess to be scared of some snow at 10 miles an hour – that dog don’t hunt. Speed in proximity is obviously not the issue so falling must be. I suggest that you get yourself along to a few Judo/Jujitsu and parachuting classes. Repeatedly falling on purpose a variety of ways a few hundred times should sort you out.
After that you can start all the skiing technique malarkey – basics first, technique second.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It's not just being able to do 100+ tuck jumps with Ski boots on. Whilst undoubtedly hard, you'll need STRONG legs, not just ones that can do a single exercise over and over and over. The majority of the elite skiers of all types, but especially those skiing at speed will be able to full squat (back bottom to grass) minimum of 150-200kgs. The force needed to absorb impacts, and hold turns at high speeds is ridiculous!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wayne,
For me it's technique, first and foremost every time. Fitness helps, no doubt. But it's good technique which is going to allow you to see all day wherever on the mountain you want.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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They basically work together, with good technique you will be skiing with less effort and with good fitness you'll find it easier to apply good technique over a wider range of skiing for longer. The classic thigh burn being a symptom of poor technique that many people mistake for a lack of fitness.
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Poster: A snowHead
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RattytheSnowRat, I appreciate that cycling and skiing are different. But aerobic fitness gained cycling cannot go amiss for the one week a year I go skiing. Re the issue of fitness and technique, I think improvements in technique are the most important for me. I am far fitter and stronger than the Mrs. I do lots of exercise. She does naff all. She skis far better than me. I have tired legs at the end of the day. She doesn't. Simples.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rob@rar wrote: |
Wayne,
For me it's technique, first and foremost every time. Fitness helps, no doubt. But it's good technique which is going to allow you to see all day wherever on the mountain you want. |
Of course it is - especially for the OP. If your fit as a fiddle but have undeveloped/poor technique you will not be any better a skier - it just means at the end of the day you will be as bad as you were at 9am.
I ski with lots of guys not nearly as fit or with the same strength to weight ratio as m,e who are miles better skiers than I am - because they are more experienced and have better technique - and at the end of the day because I have put more in to it than they have - maybe just digging my skis out after a faceplant - I'm probably more knackered than they are too.
Of course to get really good and keep on improving fitness would have to improve but technique would have to come first unless you're a total couch potato which the OP isn't.
With regard to Judo etc - my missus is scared of falling and of going fast but she rides a bloody massive horse nearly every day, going over biggish jumps, has fallen off many, many times - but she is still scared of skiing - nonsensical I know but that's the truth. She has just spent much, much more time on the back of horses through her life.
Get in a group of like ability skiers, the instructor teaches you some technique you practice it, he also mixes it with taking you down some slopes faster than you would on your own, and some steeper slopes you might normally avoid, there is a bit of peer pressure and your confidence is growing, you have some falls and brush yourself down and before you know it you're skiing significantly faster and everything seems that bit easier.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Being a couple of stone overweight may not stop you from becoming a good skier but it is not going to help.
If your a couch potato then you might find more difficult to adjust to your once a year active holiday than somebody who is active year round. Plus if your active then you might have a better chance of picking up new skills and developing existing ones than somebody who isn't very active on a regular basis.
Furthermore, being overweight or unfit could increase the chances getting injured if you getting tired at the end of the day.
I'm not saying that everybody needs to go on a full on hardcore training program but a little bit of regular exercise could help some people a lot.
(By exercise I don't necessarily mean jumping on the bike or treadmill for 60 minutes but to find something active that you enjoy and have a go. )
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 11-09-12 13:01; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Fifespud,
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my missus is scared of falling and of going fast but she rides a bloody massive horse
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Mrs M is exactly the same. She would think nothing of jumping on a ton of ignorance & spite with no brakes and riding it over 3' jumps, but won't ski down hills.
I think it's a girl thing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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musher, 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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dobby, you are doing the right thing with your cycling and building a good aerobic base. If you are fit and strong then this will definitely help your skiing. From reading your posts, it just sounds to me like you've simply not had that much time on skis with instruction. The fear/loss of confidence that you talk about will be down to the fact that you haven't yet developed your core skills enough. As you develop those skiing skills confidence will also improve. There is no substitute for time on snow, you need to spend more time skiing to improve. However you do need the guidance of an instructor who can work with you to develop these skills and give you a focus for things to practice in your own time. If your only option before your hols is the dry slope/dome then this is a good start. It may be worth thinking about taking a few lessons in February too.
Tired legs can be caused by a lack of fitness/conditioning but can also be down to a number of other factors such as muscular effort through less developed skills/technique or nerves, equipment, dehydration...
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| under a new name wrote: |
I wonder if you can learn to ski from scratch by watching vids. Mirror neurons and all that.
Is that an ethical experiment to ask funding for do you think, or do we need to go all Austrian and kidnap someone? |
Looks like it's already been done. A few moments before reading you post I came across this in an Instructor resource I was looking over:
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In 1978 Georges Joubert studied the effectiveness of ski instructors. He took two groups, one
of which learned to ski with an instructor, the other learned by simply watching other skiers.
Both were on the same terrain. Initially the group with the instructor learned more quickly but
by the end of the week the other group had improved more and were more versatile. |
I'd heard of his work before but hadn't got around to looking it up - but will 
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| My aim with all my students is to make myself redundant. |
I think the same.
If I do my job right the student not only improves their technique but also their understanding and internal feedback skills. This enables them to take increasing control of their learning as they progress.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
In 1978 Georges Joubert studied the effectiveness of ski instructors. He took two groups, one
of which learned to ski with an instructor, the other learned by simply watching other skiers.
Both were on the same terrain. Initially the group with the instructor learned more quickly but
by the end of the week the other group had improved more and were more versatile. |
An Skill Aquisition effect due to a combination of Kinaesthetic/Visual and Cogent Learning styles.
*thinks ...... this may have popped up somewhere previous in this thread.*
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| Quote: |
If I do my job right the student not only improves their technique but also their understanding and internal feedback skills. This enables them to take increasing control of their learning as they progress. |
The "Engaged Learner".
"Learning" as such is not a passive process even when an active"activity" is being learned. The process of learning is student focussed and has to be based on the particular learning style of that individual. In many ski tuition groups the process of "learning" is instructor focussed then didacticly passed to student from instructor. Frequently this lacks the empathic insight to allow effective learning to take place.
I just wonder how many students in any tuition group come away a tad disappointed that they have not made the progress they had expected.
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FAQ
