 Poster: A snowHead
|
In 1958 a bunch of Americans went up to the Hudson Bay and collected a large number of Lemmings. These poor creatures were then flown to Calgary and launched en-mass off a cliff. This behavior was, even for Americans, (to put it politely) rather strange, but they weren’t worried about public reaction as they thought the public would never find out; that this wasn’t the perfectly natural behavior of the lemmings. The Americans (the Disney Corporation) filmed the scene, from angles that would hide the human influence and the myth of that lemmings commit mass suicide was sustained. Due to the marketing power of Disney a piece of local folk-law, concerning the communal madness of the lemming, was promoted into worldwide accepted wisdom; so much so that Disney won the Oscar that year for best documentary.
Even if we forget the slight unhappiness of the lemmings , there are of course other problems with this type of goings-on. Sooner or later your deception will be discovered, and that, once discovered, any credibility you may have had will be diminished. Also (as the boy who cried wolf found out to his cost) you may find it impossible to be believed if you do happen to tell people something that is true.
But there is a way for a corporate body to lie and (for a time) to get away with it. The trick here is to make the lie so unbelievable and outlandish that it’s obviously not true, but (and here’s the clever part) give people no option but to act as if it really were true (the king’s new clothes?).
This principle will also work with customer charging; give people no option but to pay for something that they know they shouldn’t have to pay for. Of course this will only work in a few cases such as when you have no competitor who do not make the charges, or when an entire industry uses the same ruse to overcharge.
If you call a restaurant (on a premium cost number, of course) and they tell you that your meal will cost £10 and this is within your price range, you’ll book. Of course when you turn up and are charged £2 to enter the restaurant (the price quoted was for the meal only, not the enjoyment of the ambiance) you won’t be too pleased. But hey, you’re here now and it’s only £2, what the heck. Yes there is a WC (you could have gone before you left home so that’ll be 50p), waiter service (no you can’t go into the kitchen and pick up your plate, health and safety you see, so it’s another £2), plate washing (have you done the module – did you bring the certificate? – nope oh well it’s £1 then). Are you sure you want to use a table “and” a chair, what, one each, etc, etc.
Sounds like it would never happen doesn’t it, until you think about the “budget” airline industry. Now we all know they aren’t really “budget”, in fact many of the majors are cheaper. They arbitrarily introduce charge after charge using the excuse of efficiently and a consequential reduction in fares – even though the reduced fares never seem to be on the routes that people actually want to use.
But for some reason many people still believe the marketing hype trotted out by the airlines. Why?
So how do these charges appear? The normal method is for one airline to introduce a new charge and, subject to them getting away with it (the kings new clothes and all that) the rest just follow suit. In this way it becomes seen as a “standard” charge. Well everyone else charges it so we “have” to, don’t we?
So what’s next? They already charge us to stand in line at the airport, to take some luggage, for the boarding pass, etc, etc. Surely there can’t be anything else, can there?
Yep, Hand Luggage is now a chargeable item. No this isn’t a joke, Wizz-Air have introduced a charge to put hand luggage into their overhead lockers. You just know that very soon the other will do likewise and it will soon become the norm.
So lemmings don’t really follow each other off a cliff but (metaphorically) we do. You read it here first (Dragon’s Den here I come), I think that people should be charged to get a quote from a website, why not, it’s a nice website so you have the enjoyment of looking at it and so. . . . . .
Oh and if anyone thinks that charging to “enjoy the ambiance” is a ridiculous idea and that no corporation would even believe their customers were so stupid as to pay it – has anyone been to Blackpoll Pleasure Beach lately ? You now pay to “not” go on the rides.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Vaccuum Pack compression sacks to take your clothes on vacation.
Post them back home.
Sorted.
| Quote: |
I think that people should be charged to get a quote from a website
|
Actually that kind of did happen. When online booking was introduced, there was a €10 booking fee for a paper ticket plus any agent charges if you booked that way. Internet online booking was free. Then since everyone started booking online, they started charging for the privilege. Even on a major scheduled airline I now pay €14 for the privilege of booking a €12 return ticket.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
The airline pricing model is a PITA but it still currently works out better for the majority of consumers than the bad old days of inefficient state sponsored monopolies IMV. It's true that even the so called Lo Cos are no longer the bargain they were in the late 90s-mid 00s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Taken 6 flights in the last 3 weeks, all the cheapest on the routes, and paid no extra baggage, no check in fees, etc. etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
budget airlines have never been a guaranteed bargain.
About 8 years ago I flew Gatwick Geneva return around Easter BA Business class as it was cheaper than Easyjet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Perhaps we need a new name for these airlines, as budget is quite inaccurate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| c0Ka|Ne wrote: |
| Perhaps we need a new name for these airlines, as budget is quite inaccurate. |
Just stick with the name "no frills".
I have had to fly back and forth between London and Geneva this summer. Sometimes Easyjet is a lot cheaper than Swiss or BA, most of the time it's slightly cheaper, only once so far has Swiss been cheaper once you factored in hold luggage. Swiss was nice except a) it means flying into Heathrow, which meant circling for 20 minutes before landing and then sitting in a 30 minute queue on the tarmac for a take off slot and b) they allow pets on board, which meant sitting next to a rodent in a Louis Vuitton handbag with a pink bow on its head for the journey home (I think it was supposed to be a tiny dog but it kept squeaking  )
Always worth checking the comparison sites for flights as there's no hard and fast rule about which will be cheapest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
No frills? A clean, practical name... but I was looking for something much more offensive 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Lemming Airlines sounds great.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Big Budget ailines.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
miranda knows the score.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
The OP has underestimated the savviness of the travelling public. Few of us are too stupid to use the websites to do comparisons. I flew BA to Genoa a couple of months ago, £80 return from Gatwick, including twice as much baggage as I needed AND free drinks in flight. But sometimes the same flight is £340. A friend who lives in Romford will pay a significant penalty to fly from City airport, which suits him - for me it would be a complete pain.
We have enormous choice, in a pretty genuinely competitive market which, as alluded to above, never existed in the bad old days. But people will still moan!
As for paying for those damn great wheelie things which get rammed into the overhead lockers leaving no room for my jacket - yep, charge 'em. And if people are daft enough to pay a hefty extra charge to get on the same plane ten minutes before me, or choose their own seat, and help subsidise my "no frills" trip, bring it on!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
Wayne, It seems the WizzAir charge currently only applies to cabin baggage larger than 42cm x 32cm x 25cm, but I guess that applies to many carry on bags.
|
isn't that larger than ryaniar's cary on requirements anyway?... so you woul dhave to check that sized bag on a ryanair flight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I am surprised they do not have a priority luggage charge, I would pay a premium for having one of the first bags off a flight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
pam w, When I'm flying for work I'll often choose Easyjet for schedulconvenience over full service carriers but I make sure I get Speedy Boarding included so I don't have too much of a scrum to deal with and can be first off the plane. I doubt there are many leisure passengers who pay the premium regularly looking at the make up of the 2 queues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
fatbob, that makes perfect sense and obviously easyJet have their marketing down to a fine art - it's a modular approach - people pay for the bits they want. I just don't know why some people moan so much about it - recent airline history seems to make it clear that that's what people want. And the easyJet website is a model of its kind - fast, you can see quickly what you want, the options are clear.
Some people are never satisfied!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| pam w wrote: |
fatbob, that makes perfect sense and obviously easyJet have their marketing down to a fine art - it's a modular approach - people pay for the bits they want. I just don't know why some people moan so much about it - recent airline history seems to make it clear that that's what people want. And the easyJet website is a model of its kind - fast, you can see quickly what you want, the options are clear.
Some people are never satisfied! |
Flat fee annoys me when i'm booking just for myself one way! Arghh! Otherwise much better than Ryanair
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
Flat fee annoys me when i'm booking just for myself one way! Arghh!
|
yes, very irritating, I agree. Still a good website though!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I like the budget airlines' principle that you should pay for what you use. I'm such a tetchy old git that it always infuriates me when I see people ask for an extra bottle of wine on a BA flight - the steward/ess always obliges, but I quietly fume that I don't want two bottles, so why should I and my teetotal kids subsidise their alcohol addiction?
But what infuriates me with the otherwise sound principle of modular pricing is the huge difficulty of comparing costs. If you - for example - want to travel in a guaranteed family group with hand luggage, hold luggage and two sets of skis, you need to spend the best part of an evening researching how much each airline will charge to accommodate you. That's not good, and it drives out any spontaneity. When the low cost airlines first emerged, I used to use them several times a year for weekend trips. It's too much hassle now, so I stay at home.
Even worse is when you book a package holiday and find your flight is on a budget airline so you need to pay for absolutely everything. Seven years ago I went to Canada with Inghams, and the airline even charged for glasses of water on a 9 hour flight - my total food and drink bill for the journey (I have three kids) was more than £100 each way and I was so annoyed that I've never booked with them since. Some revenue raising opportunities are a massive PR disaster.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jonny Jones, gosh, all that being infuriated... sure it's got to be worse for you than having a second mini bottle of wine on an aeroplane.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jonny Jones, you'd better not travel with me on BA flights. I always make it my business to try and drink as many bottles of wine as possible thus increasing the value for money of the flight cost 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Tiger2,
I work quite often in Peru. This used to be an 8hr flight to the Caribbean and then another 4 hr to Lima. Now KLM have these massive planes they do the whole thing in one 12hr flight. I have found that the trick is to get absolutely ratted in Amsterdam and then try and sleep the whole flight. Never quite managed it as always tend to wake up after 8 or 9hr regardless of the amount consumed in Amsterdam.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
On my one ever business class flight from Delhi with BA I made a point of drinking as much champagne as I could and getting as much sleep as I could on the almost flat bed. The 2 were complementary.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 10-08-12 13:43; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Used to do the getting wasted trick too between Halifax (the Canadian one, not Yorkish one) and LHR, until one day I woke up just as the plane starting going round and round and round in a holding stack with the seatbelt sign on  desperately needing relief from the side fx of too much beverage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I used to fly to the States a lot with my brother, one time we were upgraded to Business class on the way to Phoenix, he proceeded to drink his own body weight in complimentary champagne, so guess who then had to drive the hire car through the Phoenix rush hour in the dark? Yes, dear reader, it was ... me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger2,
The Swiss girls were always very good at dispensing gin. They seemed grateful to be rid of it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
musher, As are the chaps/chapesses in Virgin Upper - I was ordered to my seat to have dinner though - no chance of eating it on the Bar!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
i've always thought that the 'ski carriage' charge was a con (tour operator's trying to get back some of their lost 'ski hire' charges.....) 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| fatbob wrote: |
| pam w, When I'm flying for work I'll often choose Easyjet for schedulconvenience over full service carriers but I make sure I get Speedy Boarding included so I don't have too much of a scrum to deal with and can be first off the plane. I doubt there are many leisure passengers who pay the premium regularly looking at the make up of the 2 queues. |
I always try and be the last one on - that way I get to choose who I sit next. Nothing worse than when some wheezing fat bloater sits next to you, hanging over half your chair as well as their own.
What really annoys me is the charges to pay buy card. Sometimes upto £13 for the privilege of paying for the flight!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
albob, many times it is. We fly regularly out of Dublin with Monarch charter flights on last minute Crystal bookings. Crystal charge €30 for ski/boardbags, whereas Monarch do not. If you "forget" to book your boardbag with Crystal, and head to the check in, they'll try to charge you. If you then say "I've never been charged on a Monarch flight before, you get sent to the Monarch desk where they check the big book of rules and lo and behold - boardbags are free.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
