 Poster: A snowHead
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Howdy all, just wanted a quick bit of advice from all of you wise  's.
I've just turned 26 and unfortunately find myself in a bit of a dead-end situation - while I earn a decent above average salary, I doubt my (IT) career will go much further without some self-investment. Now my problem is this, having worked in IT for the better part of 5 years since leaving Uni, I don’t really know if I want to spend the rest of my life going in this direction... which leads me to the snow-related aspect of this topic;
Admittedly, I'm no expert on the snow - since discovering skiing 2 years ago (sorry, no snow in South Africa:() I've done a total of 2 weeks on real snow and probably a further 2 on dry slopes, but I absolutely love skiing - I'm off skiing twice this coming season at least, but may squeeze in 2 more trips if I can afford it. Now I've always done well at instructing - it being part of my current role, so when considering the possibility of a career change, the prospect of becoming ski instructor holds a lot of appeal. So my question is this; how tough is it to make a life-long career out of instructing, or where would the natural career progression prospects take me from instructing?
I know that that is a very loaded question, and I'm not looking for absolutes but I just want to get a feel for the industry and whether or not this is a realistic ambition. Most anybody can be successful in anything if they put their mind to it - it’s just that I don’t want to be a bum or a chalet host etc for the rest of my life... I want a career doing something I enjoy and I'm prepared to sacrifice everything I've achieved up to now to get there if it looks possible.
I'd imagine that it may be easier to progress and make informed decisions once I've started but I'm also worried about getting my foot in the door. I know that there are several "gap year / career change" courses around and they do look they would be right for me as I need all the help I can get to get started, but I'd also like to know what the seasoned experts think about them. They are a bit pricey, but if you combine the tuition, course fees, lift passes and the accommodation for that kind of period, it may be worthwhile from my perspective. The next thing arising from there is career progression as well as location. If I get my BASI level 3, that means I can teach in several places, but not France without the speed test - how tough will it be to get a level 3 position fulltime that will give me the right opportunity's to move up to level 1, specifically the fact that I'd need to support myself as well as pay for further studies etc. Ideally I suppose I'd need something that would put me in a position to progress from level 3 to level 1 - how long could one realistically take to climb that ladder? Are we talking years, decades even, or just less than half a dozen?
On a side note, what do all of you instructors do during the summer? Are some of you lucky enough to be kept on during the summer in office roles or possibly relocated etc? Again, from a career prospective I’d like full-time employment in a situation that would utilize my instructor skills to their maximum – does that really exist, or is it just wishful thinking?
I appreciate that I don’t know much about snow and may be biting off more than I can chew here, which is why I intend to research this thoroughly and do at least a few more weeks on the snow before I make up my mind. Basically I'd just like to use my fellow 's as a sounding board for my ideas and hopefully a bit of useful advise for an aspiring full-time career snowhead.
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brian
brian
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| brian wrote: |
Firstly if you intend to make a career out of it you are going to have to become a bloody good skier. |
Understood, and I'm ok with that... I'm patient and I'm not afraid of hard work if the benefits are tangible.
| brian wrote: |
have a look at what BASS charge in Les Gets |
Indeed, but there seems to be a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem there... from what I can tell, the real career supporting money is in France, but you arent allowed to instruct in France until you have your speed test which requires a large amount of experience that you can only really get from a career... doh! 
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lumpy_bd, I'm a BASI 3 of 1975 vintage. Some of my contemporaries have made a career out of ski instruction - where the serious money is eventually to run/own a ski school or a niche private instruction thing - but it's a rare opportunity.
Realistically, you're coming into it quite late (I qualified at 21), but you're clearly a focused individual so there's no way I'd wish to run down your ambitions. Best of luck and success!
Look at other options for making it in the ski world. Running a holiday company, retail business or some other service trade could be interesting ... and probably easier to get into. If you can end up with a little accommodation building in a popular resort there are so many opportunities. The upper echelons of ski instruction are very tough to reach.
Talk to people who own good ski schools. They will give you realistic advice. Maybe get out to Andorra, where the market is freer.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 3-10-05 12:32; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I may well be corrected on this, but most of the ski instructors that I have known have had another income source during the summer season (and sometimes the winter too), or in a lot of cases it's a gap career before they move onto other things, this certainly seems to be true of Kiwis and the Arlberg ski school in Austria.
Some do seem to make a lifelong career solely from instructing, but my experience has been that they're in the minority. Most of the older ones I've met doing it tend to have their own seasonal summer business, which is often alpine based as well.
Another thing to bear in mind is that in most ski resorts property prices have gone through the roof, making it hard to afford to put down roots in a resort if you don't already have a foot on the ladder.
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Ability to get the speed test isn't a career experience thing - just lots of GS training on top of basic skills. Obviously people local to the Alps, especially if they've trained with race clubs, can pass this long before they get into the career side...
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lumpy_bd, I have no personal professional insight into this to speak of. It sounds a tall order not the least because so many have the same dream and relatively few succeed in making a decent living. However some lucky sods do succeed so should you choose to tread that path, I wish you well.
My first Alpine ski instructor taught scuba diving on the Med in the summer.
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PG, to be fair, most people who are local to the alps can out ski most of us before they start at high school...
I'm sure that your daughter could teach us all a thing or two and would have no problem with the ski test if she so desires at the appropriate age. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| you arent allowed to instruct in France until you have your speed test which requires a large amount of experience that you can only really get from a career |
Kramer, yes, my thinking was just that reaching a level where you can pass the speed test could be achieved independently of instructor training... if you've the funds to spend a lot of time on the snow for a couple of seasons, participating in a lot of race camps! I know one person, a relatively late starter, who achieved it, but he had a lot of money to burn. He also excelled at other sports, and made relatively quick progress.
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You love skiing, and instruction is part of your role, so there's a possible fit. The bit that's missing is being an awesome skier - which may or may not come (no offence...). What else might be in you bag of skills that you could transport to a mountain and use? How about setting up an internet cafe, providing IT support for locals, working with tour ops to set up Voip services in all their chalets, build websites for local businesses etc etc.
Or you could just transfer your job to Geneva or Grenoble and ski every weekend and all your holidays. Doesn't sound toooo bad...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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michael stocking, that said, throwing caution to the winds and following the expat dream (not suggesting at all that lumpy_bd fits into that category) isn't easy to pull off in the best of circumstances (easily transferred skills, fluent in the language, lots of dosh). There are already lots of locals doing the IT services thing, and I know of one internet cafe that shut down after a year in Bourg St Maurice for example.
Getting your company to transfer you to Geneva definitely sounds like the best option!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Kramer wrote: |
I may well be corrected on this, but most of the ski instructors that I have known have had another income source during the summer season (and sometimes the winter too), or in a lot of cases it's a gap career before they move onto other things, this certainly seems to be true of Kiwis and the Arlberg ski school in Austria.
Some do seem to make a lifelong career solely from instructing, but my experience has been that they're in the minority. Most of the older ones I've met doing it tend to have their own seasonal summer business, which is often alpine based as well.
Another thing to bear in mind is that in most ski resorts property prices have gone through the roof, making it hard to afford to put down roots in a resort if you don't already have a foot on the ladder. |
I think you've got that about right really. In fact there's more downsides than that probably.
The other side of the coin is that there are some very successful individual instructors who make what I'd consider a reasonable living, the bad news is of the ones I know personally I can't think of a single one who started as late as mid-20's though And yet, driving past GVA on a weekend in the ski season or meeting people there, I can't help but notice the massive numbers of punters arriving each week, my guess is less than 10% (a lot, lot less I think) ever take lessons in any form. For a commercially aware, qualified ski instructor this ought to be huge untapped market.
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| michael stocking wrote: |
You love skiing, and instruction is part of your role, so there's a possible fit. The bit that's missing is being an awesome skier - which may or may not come (no offence...). What else might be in you bag of skills that you could transport to a mountain and use? How about setting up an internet cafe, providing IT support for locals, working with tour ops to set up Voip services in all their chalets, build websites for local businesses etc etc.
Or you could just transfer your job to Geneva or Grenoble and ski every weekend and all your holidays. Doesn't sound toooo bad... |
Working as an IT support guy in a ski station isn't going to be a better option than being a pot washer really and it'll pay around the same.
Obviously I took the second option and it works for me, I live and work here, the advantages of that aren't confined to skiing of course. I ski weekends, maybe a couple of mornings in the week, holidays, bank holidays etc. I get more skiing and money this way than being a toilet cleaner in Andorra for 4 months
lumpy_bd, if you want to PM me with a vague idea what it is you've been doing in IT I may be able to hook you up with some people to talk about jobs with so you can get an idea what's possible.
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You know it makes sense.
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Im not and instructor & have no wish to become one however my observations & chats with instructors.
1. The main thing you need is a PASSION to teach & see pupils succeed.
2. It is not an easy job in fact far from it. Its very tiring with long hours & low pay.
3. Many instructors have to live way out of town to be able to afford to make a living.
4. You start at the bottom of the tree and this means plenty of standing around in the COLD (ski instructors frequently get sick)
5. The locals cream of the best clients ( who will wine & dine). You will have to do many seasons to achieve this level of respect.
6. Locals get the jobs first, it maybe illegal but thats just how it works.
All being said and done the foreign ski instructors do seem to get by but I can think of better jobs.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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lumpy_bd, I did, exactly, what you plan to do (at the same age). I ran out of money after two so had to go back into IT, and now teach and coach skiing part time at an outdoor centre. So you can say I failed.
Anyway, would I do the same again ? Yes.
Some thoughts.
You have to really really like teaching. Being on the nursery slope on a powder day does generate some mixed emotions ! On the other hand, being in an empty resort with a season pass with good mates is quite fun too !
If you want to ski, then get another job - and ski on your day off. You won't do much skiing as a ski instructor, and you'll find that on your day off, you may not want to put skis on again.
26 is a little old to start. If you are serious, get training for the speed test NOW.
For me, after re-joining the rat race, I found a job in IT training, in which I could use the teaching skills I'd gained in Scotland. I also taught the future Mrs Ski, and we now manage at least 5 weeks on snow each year
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm not sure what a instructor earns typically but I hear a few of them complaining.
I would say, guess, that the main attraction is it is 'dream' job. I've done a dream job and they end up as work in the end and can be just as gutty as anything else you don't particuarly want to do at the time.
As an IT professional it shouldn't be too hard to get £30k or so. With that you would have a decent car, nice house etc
How easy is it to earn the same in the mountains? Can you work for 10 months + per year?
I used to be a session musician and I could earn 'great money', for me, per day in the early 90's. But I couldn't do it every day, every week for 10 months a year. So whilst I had a 'dream' job I wouldn't gross per year, year in, year out what my contempories would do just plodding along in their boring jobs. And when you want more things in life there aren't too many short-cuts to working day-in, day-out.
You may be lucky, you may be exceptional, and you may succeed, just don't think it will be easy. Try to get a feel for what a 'dream job' will really cost you in 20 yrs time.
My freind in IT thinks he can get more money working as a plumber, maybe he can now in his early thirties if he works hard, how hard do you want to work closer to retirement age?
Just my spin and 5p's worth
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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elsewhere on this forum is a threat entitled "Recruitment" about an outfit looking for keen people to train as ski technicians in Chamonix this coming winter. Something like that would be a good start, and you would be paid to acquire highly relevant skills whilst improving your skiing and probably having fun. You could also learn reasonable French in a winter, if you applied yourself. Being there, meeting people, networking, would be the best way to start and get a feel for the life. I don't personally like the Chamonix valley, for all sorts of reasons, especially now the tunnel is open again, but most keen skiers love it, especially once they have the skills to tackle the off-piste and it clearly has a wider range of skiing and ski related activities than almost anywhere in the world - and masses of British-based businesses too.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Coming from a totally different tangent, why not invest in an MBA from a good business school, thus making yourself much more marketable, and possibly able to transfer your skill set to a different career...
...thus enabling you to either live nearer to the mountains as per the Iseman, or afford to get there much more frequently to your second home etc. This would have the added advantage of reshaping your career to give you many more and probably longer reaching options as well.
"The world is your lobster my son!"
PG I absolutely agree about local keen skiers (are there many locals who don't ski frequently?) not needing to have a skiing career to reach the standards of the ski test. It only seems fair that you need to be pretty experienced to be a teacher.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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lumpy_bd,
I know a couple of guys who took up skiing / boarding at a later stage and now instruct. One of them did his BASI 3 at about 28, having only had maybe 16 weeks ski experience before that. 2 years (and 4 seasons - he went to NZ) later he has achieved Grade 2. He's now working towards his speed test, although realistically I don't think he's likely to achieve it - he's not a natural, and slogged his guts out to get grade 2. Also, he doesn't drink - an easy and expensive distraction in resorts! ANd he has money behind him, he owns property and in the long term will run that as a business on the side. So it can be done.
You may not be able to tell after only a few weeks if you will make it, although I'd say that if you're a sporty person who can pick things up quickly and are able to adapt your body movements when having instruction then you can probably achieve BASI 3 at least - although at this level you won't earn enough to live on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lumpy
You are quite right France is where you can make half decent cash - probably around £1000 / week over say 16 odd weeks plus bits and pieces of off season work too.
To get upto grade 1 level from nearly scratch you're talking 5 years hard work IMHO and that's if you're half athletic, keen and don't go out on the lash all the time whilst in the alps.
You can get work as a grade 2 for 3 years in France and practice for the grade 1 at the same time.
If you really want it you can do it. I'm just about through my grade 2 and its taken a fair bit of time to get the required teaching hours and its all costs wanga but its been great fun. I don't see it as full time career and teach only part time though.
If your work allowed you could take a sabbatical and do one of the many GAP courses on the go and see if you think its really for you after that.
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Jake, welcome to snowHeads, and thank-you for such a well informed post.
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Jake,
Would you say that's 5 years from being a beginner? Or from starting instructor training?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Jake, £1000/week!! Just how much does the ESF pay instructors per hour for group and private lessons in France? (say £30/hour for 6 hours 6 days a week would be £1080)
ps welcome to snowHeads
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Thanks for the welcome
Beanie - I reckon a fairly green skier could get basi 1 if they were singularly focussed in 5 years - a couple of young, keen lads have. Ex racers have got through the system in 18 months...
Slike - Yeh don't know about ESF but British schools in France would pay over 30 coins per teaching hr for a BASI 1. Remember you can only get that kind of cash for a small period per yr though so its not as lucrative as it sounds...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It's also worth mentioning the cost of doing the exams and courses, BASI 3 and the foundation are trivial but BASI 2 now needs loads of time and cash, it's a major commitment.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hmm all very interesting and reasonable. Now here comes the evil bitch part
Wake up, you're 26, you work in IT. Its a slippery slope towards middle management and a life of children, golf, 1 ski trip a year and a summer break in the med.
GET OUT NOW!!
Go out there, work/ bum a season, ski loads and see if you do actually like it enough to give up everything and move to it full time. 2 weeks on holiday will have given you a pretty limited view of life in the ski industry . Go and be a ski tech or something, but get out there. Come back and re-assess.
Im giving up a job that everyone but me seems to think is the best opportunity ive ever had, to go out and run a chalet. Not everyones idea of a sensible career move, but ive never been that fussed about careers and being sensible anyway. So if you're ever down La Plagne way, drop in and say hi, but dont waste your life getting old behind a PC. do something whilst you can or hate yourself forever 
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i'm a full time full cert instructor in colorado. i have said this many times. ski instructors tell more lies about their income than used car salesmen.
what is done in the summer? painting, carpentry, landscaping, forestry, fishing guides.
i'm lucky in so far as i can consult for a few months in another field and my wife has an mba and is a successful business woman.
marry the right person!
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You know it makes sense.
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Nadenoodlee, yeah, thats the way I see it... middle management just doesnt sit very well with me.
Jake, thanks for the words of advice - thats the kind of input I'm really looking for.
I appreciate that 2 weeks is hardly going to give me a complete picture of what a life of snow is like, but it gives me a direction in which to focus my efforts for now. What I'll probably do is carry on with my 2 - 3 ski trips per year until I have tied up my loose ends here (Unfortunately I fell in to the credit based buy-now-pay-later mentality very badly a while ago so I'm tied here until I am clear of that) and then do a season or 2 to get a good idea if thats what I really want to do.
Thanks for all of your input guys. I realise that a life of ski instructing isnt as glamarous as it may sound at first... but its gotta be better then where I am now - I hate my job, I hate who I work with and there is very little hope of me expanding out of this without further self investment - given a choice between investing in further IT qualifications and investing in a life on the slopes, I think I'll try the slopes first and see if it woks out.
Wish me luck and I'll be sure to keep my fellow 's posted on how it turns out over time.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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lumpy_bd, if you really hate your job, then whatever you choose to do is a step in the right direction. Good luck to you, if you find a job that you like doing then you're halfway to finding the meaning of life IMO.
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Poster: A snowHead
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lumpy_bd, Anyone mentioned part-time work at the local dryslope ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lumpy_bd,
Just stumbled across this site and read your post - my advice is to be careful what you wish for! In my experience instructors don't have a great lifestyle, money can often be hard and the politics surrounding who gets the work and the pecking order involved can make things difficult. I have a place in France (Les Carroz) and after talking to one of the instructors a few times it sounds like the Wild West when the work gets tight. You will also need to consider that long term if you want a 'Familly' home close or near a resort you are going need lots of cash or your summer job is going to have to be good! Remember also that teaching kids on green runs day in day out week after week might not quite be the skiing buzz you have experienced to date.
After reading the advice given I agree that the other options open to you are to get a none Skiing job in a resort or re-locate in your current role near a ski area. The none ski job in a resort is not really a career option unless you have some money behind you and can buy yourself a job/business in a resort, the re-location is however a more realistic option and I would settle for being close enough to the hills to ski every week of the season.
Good Luck!!
By the way if you say you work in IT - have you considered the Contractor / Freelance option? Work 8mths Ski for 4 could be a possibility depending on your skill set. I am sure the 8mths in IT wouldn't be too bad if you knew you had a work free season at the end of it!!! www.jobserve.com
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FAQ
) but you have all the built in problems of seasonality etc.
