 Poster: A snowHead
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I've been having fun with my chiropractor trying to get me into workable shape for the Winter (he has his hands full) and he's been using levotape on my knees.
It's weird stretchy sticky tape that stays stuck on for about a week - I thought that it was a bit silly and wasn't expecting it to work but...
I have hyperextended both of my knees and they swell up and annoy me every few weeks but this tape pulls the skin gently away from my tendons (I think) which lets them move into the right place or something lke that.... I have no swelling and no pain anymore.
If anyone has similar knee problems it's worth giving it a try, I can't believe how easily it works - hopefully it will keep me going all this season. Apparently Beckham uses it so if it's good enough for him 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I had my shoulder taped up on Wednesday evening. The tape did seem to offer some support and relief for a minor shoulder injury. However! I noticed that a bit of tape was lifting tonight, so I went to cut it off, only to see that a chunk of skin was stuck to it too. It only seemed to be in one patch but I've taken it all off to be on the safe side. I'm not usually allergic to plasters or anything.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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victoriac, I use it one of my knees and it really is fantastic stuff. There are a few single leg exercises that I do everyday but the tape does help me a lot.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Placebo effect
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Andybag, Idiot!
victoriac, I've used taping to hold my kneecap in place for a while. It does work, but it also indicates that my Vastus Medialis is weaker than the Vastus Lateralis. I am working on building up the VM but it is notoriously difficult to work in isolation. With tape I am relatively pain free, without it I can only ski for about 30 minutes before the pain kicks in. I use both normal zinc oxide tape as well as Kensio tape. It is difficult and expensive to get hold of here, hence the use of bog standard zinc oxide. At my age it very unlikely that I will ever be able to balance out the 2 parts of my quad muscles. But I can still ski that and that is the main purpose of using it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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victoriac, If you believe it works it works.
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Samerberg Sue I can understand the science behind why the zinc oxide taping would help support your knee, but personally I can see why Kinesio tape would help. I'm pretty sure that a very stretchy, pretty coloured bit of tape (which more often than not peels off) would not help in supporting your kneecap and I think it is the rigid zinc oxide that is doing the supporting. But hey what would a Sport Scientist know?
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| Andybag wrote: |
| Samerberg Sue I can understand the science behind why the zinc oxide taping would help support your knee, but personally I can see why Kinesio tape would help. I'm pretty sure that a very stretchy, pretty coloured bit of tape (which more often than not peels off) would not help in supporting your kneecap and I think it is the rigid zinc oxide that is doing the supporting. But hey what would a Sport Scientist know? |
If it works then it works. I certainly do not have any need for a 'Sports Scientist' telling me otherwise.
Regarding the placebo effect: Personally I have tried lots of other products that did not work for me and some caused increased irritation and discomfort.
Conclusion: be open minded and try all potential solutions. But at the end of the day if its not working try something different.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for the disdain Elston
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Andybag, then you have obviously never heard of McConnel Taping or Kensio Taping. Both of which are well known and widely accepted techniques to support sport/daily movement in people with muscular deficiencies! Hence you see so much "very stretchy, pretty coloured bit of tape" on a wide variety of world-class sportsmen and women.
You may be a "sports scientist", but you are most certainly not an experienced sports physician or physiotherapist. I'll stick with their advice and guidance and keep taping my knee with whichever of the two types of tape I have to hand.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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While on subject of weak knees. This year both of my knees (although my left mainly) has been quite painful from first day of skiing and still 3 weeks on. Not laterally - they feel very strong laterally. But when my leg is straight the feel painful and unstable vertically - it feels like the front inside of my kneecap is supporting my weight on a knife edge.
Obviously I am now looking at a doc/ physio trip as it hasn't completely gone, but I'd be interested in anyone who has felt similar and might know what it is or what needs to be done. Also anyone can point me to some simple exercises to start building up the strength around my knees as I am getting older and they are getting weaker.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks Samerberg Sue, I only get paid to conduct research into the effect of sport on the human body (mainly bio-mechanically if you were interested). Again I have heard of both McConnel Taping and Kinesio taping but as I said there is no science to support the effectiveness of Kinesio tape as joint support, if you can point me in the direction of some research or theory I would happily look it over.
Here's an empirical study into the clinical effect of Kinesio tape (however it is for shoulders, not knees) for you to mull over
http://sportheart.ru/articles/the_clinical_efficacy_of_kinesio_tape.pdf
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Thought we'd done this before somewhere but this BBC article following Ballotelli's exposure seems to hint at more than a touch of holographic wristband about it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18672458
I've got to admit I'd assumed Ballotelli's taping was providing some sort of functional lower back support but that was before I'd read the bollox about it relieving pressure from the skin on lower levels of tissue/organs.
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You know it makes sense.
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fatbob, it is just alternative medicine. You know, like medicine, but without any proof. No doubt we'll be seeing tons of the stuff during the Olympics.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Monium, Yep I realise that - I just hadn't happened on this particular quackery before & had naively assumed that kinesio taping was a method of taping to actually provide some functional support or relief.
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Poster: A snowHead
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So far the volleyballists seemed to have this particular nonsense locked up but there's a Ukranian woman in the triple jump whose leg is virtually all pretty coloured tape.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It might be only placebo, but it works for me. Few years back I sprained my ankle really bad, and I wasn't able to even step on my feet, so I decided to try Kinesio. It's not, that I would be running after it, but I was actually able to walk and on top of that, I was able to spend day on course with ski boots on (yes it was still hell of a job to get foot into boot). Considering I can stand quite lot of pain, and I really wasn't able to stand on feet before, I doubt this was placebo only.
After this, I have been using Kinesio tape for quite few other things, including my speed inline skating sessions, where you are bend down for 2 hours or so, and without it, there's no way I would be still kicking for last hour or so. With this tape, my back is feeling much much better.
So maybe it is placebo, or maybe it's not, but it works for me, and that's all I care.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| primoz wrote: |
It might be only placebo, but it works for me. Few years back I sprained my ankle really bad, and I wasn't able to even step on my feet, so I decided to try Kinesio. It's not, that I would be running after it, but I was actually able to walk and on top of that, I was able to spend day on course with ski boots on (yes it was still hell of a job to get foot into boot). Considering I can stand quite lot of pain, and I really wasn't able to stand on feet before, I doubt this was placebo only.
After this, I have been using Kinesio tape for quite few other things, including my speed inline skating sessions, where you are bend down for 2 hours or so, and without it, there's no way I would be still kicking for last hour or so. With this tape, my back is feeling much much better.
So maybe it is placebo, or maybe it's not, but it works for me, and that's all I care. |
Don't confuse using ANY sort of tape in the correct manner, which is shown to work like strapping or braces in helping acute injuries, with the Japanese snake-oil tape which just has to be stuck on. If you're using tape like strapping to support the muscles and biomechanical structure then it doesn't reall matter what tape you use, it will help to some extent.
This japanese tape's claims are unfounded, but it doesn't mean you can't use it in a tried and tested way to get tried and tested results.
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Feef thing is, that "Japanese snake-oil tape", with which you probably refer to Kinesio tape, is actually working for me. In my sprained ankle case, it wasn't used for traditional taping to give support, but with two single striped applied in ankle area. And as I wrote, before I wasn't able to even step on my foot, and after that, I was able to walk. Sure I couldn't run, but being able to walk for those few days before I could get rest, was pretty cool thing to do, even with "snake-oil tape".
Another thing is, when you look why it works, and when you know a bit about physiology, you can actually apply it with some effect... even if it's not "tried and tested" by some official institution  Considering most (if any) of athletes, using it, doesn't get any monetary benefits from it, do you really think they use it only as placebo?
But no matter what, it's not really my problem if someone doesn't like it. Noone is forcing anyone to use it. I know it works for me in some cases, and I don't need more "tried and tested results" then this. If you think it's snake-oil, it's fine with me
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm betting the adhesive in the Kinesio tape is laced with an analgesic and a hallucinogenic. Don’t get me wrong – I’m all for it (bet you no one has tested for either as well)!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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What I like most about this tape is that it is stretchy but still offers some support ie enough support to hold my knee cap. I have tried zinc tape, which works but is not very comfortable. Anybody know of any other tape that is stretchy?
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primoz, I'm not sure high level athletes are the best test group given their propensity to use anything that will give them an edge (including for many illegal products if they think they won't be found out) and the important role of psychology in their coaching and preparation. Almost certainly a coach or trainer won't be taping them saying "there's no evidence this works but see what you think" but instead trying to plant positive associations with it. Thereafter athletes will be superstitious about using it.
You strike me as a reasonable man so how do you think it's working? Had you tried ibuprofen/naproxen etc first to no effect? I know my knees can go from barely functional to fine with a dose of the latter but believe there is some science behind its analgesic properties. Maybe I should see if magic tape has the same effect?
Is it really relieving your pain receptors by lifting the epidermis away from the dermis?
BTW I do believe in placebo effect. I know because good orthopods have advised me that nothing short of full Donjoy/CTI brace provides any real functional support for a knee and even then may have limited prophylactic effect in preventing ACL/MCL injuries. However this doesn't stop me wearing tubigrip compression on both knees when skiing as it "feels" that they are providing some support and therefore that my knees are less likely to go ping. The brain is a weird thing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I get the feeling that anything that feels good, or different, will make you feel more relaxed about injuries or aches and that in itself will have a benefit. That said, I don't think sellotaping yourself is likely that useful
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| Elston wrote: |
| What I like most about this tape is that it is stretchy but still offers some support ie enough support to hold my knee cap. I have tried zinc tape, which works but is not very comfortable. Anybody know of any other tape that is stretchy? |
No idea whether it works the same on a knee - but I buy 'FASTAID cohesive bandage' from Tesco - around £2 for a 4.5 metres roll - holds fast on my dogs paw/ankle if he cuts or sprains it !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DaveC, Yup the placebo effect. There are cheaper things you could stick to yourself to give you some psychlogical comfort. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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White duct tape, and different coloured felt tips?
Out of curiosity, I would give it a go (the tapes mentioned in the thread, not the one I just suggested above!)
I bought one of those bracelets a few years ago (again curiosity). Did nothing for me, although I found it funny how I had to have it on no matter what - 1 year after taking it off, I'm as energetic as ever. Key? A good diet, and 8 hours sleep.
Some of the top rated posts on the BBC article have me in stitches 
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