 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi guys,
help needed - my wife is an insane Swede and her and a bunch of her mates have decided to do the Vasaloppet next year, actually her mates have convinced her to try the kortvasan instead - so maybe they are not as insane as her. The kortvasan (short vasa) is only 3 swedish miles (30 km).
The trouble is that she has entered me into it as well. Some of her friends can xc ski, but most of us (including me and my wife) haven't tried it before, so in advance of the kortvasan (in February 2013), we are going to spend a weekend up in Salen or Mora (depending on conditions) in December to become "experts" at it...., yes I know 
Anyway, in advance of that weekend I need to some help for a) clothing and b) training
In terms of clothing I anticipate building up a lot of sweat / heat, so I was just going to wear a wicking t-shirt on top and my climbing jacket, a patagonia ascentionist - which is windproof(ish) but very breathable. Gloves, i've got some powershield climbing gloves with leather palms which might do, but I'm stuck for legwear - it looks like most xc racers just wear tights, so I was just going to wear my powerstretch leggings - will they be warm enough or should I wear a lightweight windproof over them (or will that be too much)?
Training - in terms of fitness, I'm not that fit, I'm a big lad and quite heavy so I tend to do a half marathon in around 2hours 30mins, so not fast (lots of walking breaks), so I'm thinking more like 4 hours for the kortvasan. But the gliding / poling technique will use different muscles, so any stretching / exercise routines recommended for XC?
Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ok, so its a Classic race not a free technique race, so at least you don't have to skate.
Training wise, if you can't do any skiing (up your local dryskislope on xc kit  ), best is probably running and cycling to get fit. If you've got classic length poles you could do some bounding with poles - ie mimicking classic technique but without the skis. I'd suggest rollerskis, but classic rollers are not that close to classic on snow and can promote bad technique compared to the technique required for snow. Bounding with poles is probably the best bet for working the correct muscles if you can't get to train regularly on skis. Will you be out for the week before the race to get more snow time?
For racing I normally wear a pair of running tights (courtesy of Lidl) and a mountain equipment lightweight top for the race, but warm up pants and a down jacket over the top until just before the start. However my races have been in scotland or at Rupholding generally in rather warm weather so you may need to see what the forecast temperatures are like and add more kit like thermals/baselayer underneath if its forecast to be very cold.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dave Horsley cheers Dave, thanks for the advice.
I've been to Mora and Salen in March / April time and its fairly warm, although I've also been to Salen over a new year and its been -20C up on the top....
....mmmm sounds like I need to be able to adapt to the cold / warmth better.
I've got a pair of haglof col trousers that are made from haglofs flexable fabric (stetchy, with a bit windproofing) and I can wear these with some HH wicking leggings if its quite cold, they will breathe quite well - and if its too cold even for them, I can always use the powerstretch leggings under the cols instead.
I'm based on the isle of man, and no dryslopes I'm afraid, so running and cycling it is.
Haven't got any nordic poles, but I guess I can pick some up cheaply... and then find a quiet field somewhere where I can practice bounding with poles without anyone seeing me.... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ooohhh meant to ask - where do you leave your warm up pants and top when the race starts (or do you carry them with you in a back pack)?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Warm up kit in scotland on snow I dump at the start with the race officials - last race I did (not snow as it was June) we stuck our kit in a car provided by the race organisers (but there again one of them was me!) who then delivered it to the finish. Rupholding I left it in a bag at the start/finish area. I'm sure the vasoloppet will have a system for getting your kit from the start to the finish. I'll ask at the club this week if i remember as we had some loppet racers this season, but the info on the vasoloppet site suggests they'll take a change of clothing and your warmup kit to the finish:
http://www.vasaloppet.se/wps/wcm/connect/en/vasaloppet/start/races/winterweek/kortvasan/info/index.html
START ENVELOPE
In your start envelope is:
Take care not to mix up your data chip with another participant. The chip is personal to you!
1. Number bib. This must not be taken off during the race and must always be visible.
Wear your number bib clearly visible on your chest when you go in to your start group.
2. A data chip on a Velcro strip which you attach to your right ankle. No chip – no timing! The chip registers that you have started.
3. An address label to mark your rucksack/ bag containing clothes change. The contents should be protected from damp.
4. A plastic sack marked with your start number, for your tracksuit. Seal the sack with the enclosed wire.
RUCKSACK/BAG
In the start area there are lorries signed (marked) with colour and start numbers.
Important: Load your rucksack/bag on the correct lorry.
TRACKSUIT/PLASTIC SACK
The plastic sack in which you place your tracksuit/overalls should be left in the collection pens which are by each start group. It can also be left before you go to your start group, in which case you leave it together with your rucksack/bag on the lorry. Rucksacks/bags/tracksuits are transported to the showers/changing rooms in Mora. Do not send your things by private transport!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Having done xc in N. America and Finland in the depths of winter where it's regularly -20 or below, you'll be astonished how much heat you generate so you won't need much more than a baselayer and a top unless it is brutally cold and I doubt they'd race in much less than -20. Because of the above remember to drink enough; I'm sure the race will provide lots of feed stations.
With regard to training, some gyms have nordic ski equipment but I guess on the IOM they are rare to say the least so just lots of CV. You may want to look at high intensity training which is generally regarding as a good if demanding way of improving performance. There are a myriad of training regimes but this one has had good sports science reviews http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/training-fitness/ultimate-interval
Edit: You should turn the frownie in the subject into a smiley ! It's a great sport and being in such beautiful surroundings I'll be surprised if you don't get hooked.
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Sack the Juggler, sounds like fun! I'm at the opposite end of XC skiing from some of those who have replied above (ie I'm at the beginning end....). One thought is that the sport makes far more use of upper body strength than downhill skiing does. Learning to use the poles properly - and having the right muscles - is pretty important. That's one of the reasons it's such a great sport! It might be worth seeking out specific exercise to build up the specific upper body strength needed. A google round some relevant sites should help.
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pam w,
Its classic so the major muscle group for poles use is the abs as when double poling your basicly doing a continual series of crunches so core strength in the abs area would be an advantage. Once you move away from double poling particularly once you get into diagonal stride the biggest advantage will come from having good kick, so getting the wax right, on correctly sized* skis and having good technique so you actually get the centre of the ski down onto the snow to give grip in the kick phase, but up off the snow during the glide phase so you get decent glide is where you'll get the biggest gains.
* its not so much about length as getting skis with the correct flex, easiest done with the paper test. Stand on the skis with equal weight on both skis and a sheet of paper between one ski and the floor/bench top. Your assistant should be able to move the piece of paper for a reasonably large area of the centre of the ski from forward of the binding to past the heel of the binding - this is the wax poccket. If you can't then the ski is too flexible. If you transfer all your weight gently over to one ski the wax pocket, the area where the paper will move should become much smaller, but still be there. If you dynamically transfer your weight over the one ski the whole ski (in most skis) should be in contact with the floor/bench and the paper shouldn't move. If you can't get the ski to do this it is too stiff.
A skii that is too soft will be easy on the uphills as you'll get lots of kick but horrible on the flats and downhills as you'll have no glide. It will be slow and hard work to ski. A ski that is too stiff will be fast on the flats and downhills as it should glide well, but as soon as you are looking to move into double diagonal it will be awfull as there will be no kick.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dave Horsley, interesting, thanks. I've really enjoyed trying to get to grips with the different steps and associated poling - one of the many advantages of having lessons rather than just shuffling around on your own. It's encouraging to see how sleek and fit the people in the XC area look - well, most of them! I plan to take another couple of weeks lessons this coming season, one early on. Though I will also be doing a fair bit of downhill skiing, for a bit of rest and relaxation.
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EEK! Crunches! oh no! The missus does 100 push ups, crunches, dips, and lunges (each leg) every morning... while I have my breakfast in bed (which she makes me) - looks like I will have to start joining her in her early morning routine.
Dave - Thanks for the tips on poling - thinking of getting some secondhand roller skis / skates just to concentrate on the double poling technique and balance (we've got a 2 mile flat prom along the beach to practice on) and will look at my kick technique when I go over in December - still haven't got a clue how to stop, and looking at last years kortvasan I see a few walked down the steep parts, so I will probably do that.
I'll hire skis for the race (and probably the day before) so they should sort me out okay for flex and length, although I haven't got a clue about waxing strategy - as a beginner should I just go for a scaled base or am I best sticking with wax (or do you not get the option with races)?
Dsoutar - thanks for the CV tips, i'll look at them tonight - really starting to realise how difficult this thing is (and I already thought it was difficult) - I've now revised my finish time from 4 hours to 5 hours... my start number is 4141 so towards the back / middle depending on total entries - so I'll just take it easy forthe first 5 km or so until it all settles down (i.e. until everyone has overtaken me), then I'll try to get into my stride.
Pam - glad you find it such an enjoyable sport - that makes me less nervous as I hope to find it enjoyable too - will you be doing one of the loppets?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If I can add my advice & maybe simplify the task you have set yourself. You have two main issues you will need to address fitness & ski technique.
You own up to not being particularly fit. The way to look at this is can you run 30km? Try & get yourself half marathon fit, aim to be able to run the full distance, at your own pace, without having to stop. If you can run ~20km you will probable be able to ski 30km - skiing doesn't have the same pounding on the legs. Rollerski training would help but it is difficult to master in the time you have. It took me a few years to become vaguely proficent on rollerskis - mainly because tarmac hurts when you fall & it is difficult to stop on rollerskis.
Ski technique - you are unlikely to devlop much ski technique in a weekend so don't worry too much, not much you can do about it on the Isle of Man. I am pretty sure you will diagonal stride most of the route - your legs are stronger than your arms & I doubt you will have sufficient strength to double-pole 30km. Your big advantage is your wife is a Swede so she should be able to give you all the skiing advice you need.
A lot of novices enter loppet races of 30-50km & complete them with only a week of ski training beforehand. The main thing you can do to prepare yourself is get running fit. There will probably be a cut-off time for the race, find out what it is & pace yourself.
Good luck, Peter.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Cheers Peter, Im already getting the vibes that there is not much I can do in terms of technique, so as per your suggestion I'm heading down the fitness route, and looking to build on my upper body strength (arms and abs) to help with the poling and build my endurance. I have run three half marathons in the past year and have another this month and one in September, but I'm very slow.
Already checked out the cut off and I reckon I've got loads of time on this as my starting group is 11am and the cut off is 5pm at the 21km point, so as you say I'll just pace myself, especially in the early stages as it can get a bit tight and I'd rather just stay out of trouble until it settles down and I can concentrate on building a rhythm.
I appreciate what you are saying about the roller skiing so i will leave that and try to build dave's bounding into my training plan, think some interval type training with them should help.
Having heard all the sound advice on here I'm now less worried than I was, i can do endurance type events, so was more worried about the actual skiing aspect of the training, but less so now as everyone seems to think it's doable even for a beginner, and some even find it fun!  so I might even enjoy it.
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Ok, just had my second lesson here in Mora and muscles I didn't even know I had are aching all over.
Balance is the big thing and I managed to fall over five times today, we did 8 km on the vasa course, as predicted the diagonal poling is by far the easiest. I wasn't going fast, abd even though my legs were aching, the diagonal method is a relatively easy and even though some muscles complained I felt I could do it all day, although I actually only did it for 1 hour 30 minutes, so maybe 5 hours or more for the full distance?
Really need to work on stretching the groin area as that gets the worst of it when you are constantly holding the glides between strides.
Any way out for a few more beers and then a meal before our last lesson tomorrow morning, then heading up to salen for some proper skiing
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You know it makes sense.
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Hi guys, just back from Mora where we completed the kortvasan and I absolutely loved it. Took me 5:27 and was knackered by the end, but not bad after only three hours on xc skis, and I wasn't last either!
As I couldn't use a ski machine, the big things for me was the cardio work, crunches and thigh and abductor toning, they really paid off.
At the start of the race me and the missus were quickly left behind by the group as we hadnt been on skis since December, but within the first km we had got back into a rhythm and had started catching the tail enders.
I started off with just the diagonals but by the second half of the race my poling was really coming on and I could double pole whole sections on the flat, it really is about using your core muscles rather than yours arms.
The downhill sections can be pretty hairy. There is one section that contains three downhill sections one after the other with a short flat stretch in between. The best way to handle them is to bend your knees and tuck in for stability and just take them as there is no way to slow yourself, but you feel a lot like Eddie the eagle heading towards the jump at lillehammer.
Took a few falls on the downhill sections, as was not enjoying it, until out of necessity I had to try the snowplough as all the tracks had gone from certain steep sections through constant snowploughing by previous racers. After doing the splits at the first attempt, I managed to get the hang of it and didn't fall again, which was ace. But snowploughing is definitely harder with no edges and with only your toe fixed to the skis.
Don't get me wrong most of the downhill sections were easy, just tuck in and take out another 200-300 metres of the course, but some are lethal and there were lots of fallers.
Even though my speed picked up in the second half of the race (as you get better with the technique) i still finished over an hour or two later than all of my friends and 45 minutes after my missus.
The guy who waxed my skis did a fantastic job, I could run up all but the steepest hills without having to rely on using the herringbone walk and yet I could glide forever off the downhill sections.
Fantastic relief coming into the final straight and being cheered on by our friends who had earlier start times (as they are kortvasan regulars) so had time to go home and get changed before coming back to cheer us home.
Massive celebrations afterwards, but we were all exhausted from the race and were in bed before 10pm.
Definitely putting our name down for next year as its a great festival, everyone is happy and the organisation is fantastic.
Top tips; I carried a lot of water and gels, but had a blueberry soup at approx 5 km intervals so didn't need the gels and only had a few mouthfuls of water so don't carry too much. Due to the number of crashes in the race, I decided to wear my crash pants and a protective semi padded base layer on top and I was so glad of them, especially for the first half of the race. Other than these layers I just wore a thin xc jacket and xc trousers and was plenty warm right through the race even though I was soaked through from the earlier falls (the snow to the sides of the course is quite deep and gets everywhere when you bury yourself in it)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Sack the Juggler, many, many, congratulations; I'm very impressed. We've done quite a lot of work in lessons on the snowplough, but I remain useless at it. Not surprised you fell over. In our area there are never any tracks on the steeper descents - when they disappear your heart sinks!
Interesting that you used the crash pants - and a good idea. People who think XC is an easy option probably haven't tried it, or have only shuffled round a flat track in the valley bottom.
Any photos?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Photos to follow, need to download them when I get home!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, Thanks for the congrats, I am chuffed to have finished but wish my speed was a better. You are so right about it not being an easy option. My missus who is a natural downhill skier and massively fit (she is running the London marathon in April), really struggled with the downhill sections and had quite a few falls that sapped her confidence. If fact she said at one point her legs were shaking that much from fear that she was considering quitting. She couldn't master the snowplough and fell a few times until she decide to side step down the slopes with no tracks.
For me the biggest things I need to master is slowing down and also changing lanes going downhill. The only way I could stay stable was to plant myself into the track and tuck down. I made sure there was no one in front of me before heading down a slope, but my glide was such that I'd catch up with other skiers and I'd try to brake by dragging my poles hard in the snow behind me (not very successful at speed by the way).
I was amazed by the number of accidents there were with people falling across lanes, the those behind them would either fall into them or fall when trying to change lanes. I was lucky that I managed to get off the track whenever I fell and that I managed to avoid hitting anyone myself, but the majority could avoid fallers by skipping lanes which is an amazing skill.
having said that I absolutely love the sport, it's very exhilarating gliding along and even double poling feels easier now. Will definitely be doing more xc skiing and maybe even this race again next year 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I found large photo gallery (~23 000 pics) from Vasaloppet 2013 and the good thing is that it allows to search by name.
http://se.sport-photo.eu
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
the majority could avoid fallers by skipping lanes which is an amazing skill.
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that's something we started doing in an intermediate XC lesson week I did last season. Never got any good at it, but at least I know now what I am aiming at. I entirely relate to your OH's fear. I was MUCH more scared learning to XC ski than learning to snowboard. I think it's a whole lot more difficult. So much more finesse and balance needed - no good trying to muscle your equipment!
I wouldn't side step down though - I'd take the skis off and carry them, but maybe that's not allowed on a race?
I hope to do another week at the end of this season if conditions are OK. Hard frozen tracks are truly scary though so morning lessons in spring conditions might not be too clever.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Looks great, glad you enjoyed it.
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Looks great, glad you enjoyed it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I completely forgot about the photos from this race - they are here
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Better late than never, eh what? It does look fun. I plan to get at least a week's XC skiing in late March/early April and might take another week's lessons. I'd like to master that "skipping lanes" technique or, if not exactly master it, be able to give it a better go.
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| pam w wrote: |
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I completely forgot about the photos from this race - they are here
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Better late than never, eh what? It does look fun. I plan to get at least a week's XC skiing in late March/early April and might take another week's lessons. I'd like to master that "skipping lanes" technique or, if not exactly master it, be able to give it a better go. |
a lot of those in the pictures have some the short and women's vasa this week, and the young guy with the moustache whose house we stayed at (and who taught us) is doing the main vasa on Sunday and he has a good chance of winning it if he can get rid of his cold.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FAQ
