 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Guys
[AS THIS HAS ACTUALLY TURNED OUT TO BE GENUINE (!) I HAVE EDITED THIS POST TO ENSURE THAT WE DON'T INVITE COMPLICATIONS - - AS BEFORE - IF ANYONE ELSE IS CONTACTED BY THESE PEOPLE PELASE FEEL FREE TO GET IN TOUCH VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE - NOT ON THE FORUM PLEASE. I'LL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED AS TO THE FINAL OUTCOME - Cheers]
We have recently had a Mystery shopper online purchase of a Poivre Blanc Usha jacket to be sent to Germany - obviously we are selling with integrity and the manufacturer is very clearly stated as Poivre Blanc
...and subsequently an email containing a letter from a firm of German lawyers talking about copyright infringement of a trademarked brandname 'Usha'
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 29-06-12 10:33; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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tiggerific, if you are the retailer I'd think you have nothing to worry about unless it specifically states that you can only sell that jacket in particular territories (unlikely). Even then, any trademark infringement case would surely be brought against Poivre Blanc.
It's grey marketing they are going after. They do it with mobile phones too. This is in German but use Google translate and you get the gist http://blog.sotel.de/2009/08/04/testkaeufer-alexandros-koutsoukos/ - sounds like a try on to me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I can't help directly, but two thoughts:
1. Why not email the firm using their actual website details and see if they did genuinely contact you (what does the email sending address look like? Even so they could have a alien gremlin in their works).
2. Even if the claim is genuine surely it is Poivre Blanc that are wrong? Surley you can't, as a retailer, be expected to check the validity of every single product design name in your store?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Germany has some of the world's most robust IP laws.
If the approach is real, tread carefully.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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tiggerific, From what you have said, its the brand name USHA that maybe protected, it has nothing to do with the Jacket, other than Poivre Blanc calling their jacket the "Usha"
A brand owner can only take legal action against another manufacturer if a product, that infringes copyright, trademark or IP rights is for sale on the open market and has been bought by a consumer, via a retailer or direct sales. So yes retailers maybe liable but its normally the manufacture who ends up in court.
A brand owner MUST protect its ownership when it thinks it may have be infringed, if it does not most legal claims will fail, time scales for this are pretty long maybe as much as 25 years, so it maybe that the brand owner is covering their backs on this.
If its all real then I would suggest that you contact the distributor and not sell any further items with the name USHA on them.
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As above if it's genuinely from the lawyers it's probably not a scam. The lawyers may have a contract to detect and verify possible cases of infringment in say Europe and they found the name on a webtrawl then made a purchase to validate that a product was being sold. They are probably just issuing you with a "cease and desist" to cover all the bases.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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tiggerific, I looked at the trade mark registry. Usha is a registered trademark in class 9, which includes clothing, but as far as I can tell, the companies owning the mark are in IT and industrial stuff. As far as I know there is no clothing brand called Usha. You can have a play with this: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-find/t-find-text/
One is:
USHA INTERNATIONAL LIMITED
Surya Kiran Building, 19 Kasturba Gandhi Marg, New Delhi, India, 110 001
and the other is:
Hon Hai Precision Industry Co Ltd
No 2 Tzu Yu Street, Tu-Cheng, Taipei Hsien, Taiwan, Province Of China
and there's an Indian restuarant in Stratford on Avon - better tell the Germans about that.
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What do I know...but if you Google Usha you will find many different organisations using it. It is also a characters name in The Archers (no I don't). Is it possible to trademark a persons name?.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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tiggerific, do you have a written agreement with the supplier of the clothing? there may be an intellectual property indemnity in there which makes it their responsibility to meet your costs in dealing with a claim like this.
even if you don't have this in writing, this is probably the position under general law, but there may be a bit more argument before you get them to pay up
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Not directly relevant but related.
Some years ago I was freelancing for a while using the trading name Simplis-IT
I got an email, similar to the one described, from an American law firm stating that I was guilty of 'passing off' (trading under the guise or inference that you're related to someone else) as they had a hardware product that was called 'Simplis', threatening me with all sorts of things and including forms and invoices that I was requested to sign.
I simply replied stating that I do not trade in the US, their product is not sold in the UK, that we were working in completely different market sectors and there was no chance of any confusion between the two offerings.
I never heard anything back. I think some places DO fish a little when it comes to alleged trademark infringement.
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You know it makes sense.
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Bode Swiller, Their case seems to be based on the trademarking of the brand in * Germany* & the fact that we have indeed allowed the item to be sold 'in Germany' - I guess that if we didn't do international sales they really wouldn't have been able to (attempt to) enforce this.
It's a Kibbutz in israel and a Vedic godess too, according to wikipedia.
If you actually google the brand nothing much comes up except on auction type sites.
We'll see how it goes
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| tiggerific wrote: |
| they can't really claim that we were deliberately attempting to pass this high quality product off as a bit of German fashion tat, ! |
Spam?  Remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that - I remember being astounded at the price/ugliness ratio of some of the down filled shiny black binbags that seemed to be the rage in Milan.
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Poster: A snowHead
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a 'Cease & Desist' form - but if we sign it we are also agreeing to pay legal fees of 100,000 Euro.
Unlikely that a C&D would come with a bill......IMHO
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mind you I wonder why the issue of trademarks doesn't arise with these horrid Chinese firms that go after all the other domain name endings of your own website hoping to flog them back to you when you need them. What worries me is someone could start trading on one of these and then go after me for copyright infringement when I had the website name first.
In my case my domain is my name - there is no reason for anyone else to use it, yet one of these horrid little Chinese concerns wrote to me telling me that ownership of the other domain endings was 'critical to their business plan' and they intended to register them unless I did so. I had no wish to spend £60 or what ever it was registering all the domain names, but I know that the horrid little Chinese group went ahead and registered them all. It just made me very cross at the time (and still does) and I read a thread like this and wonder about potential future repercussions.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, the only repurcussion is that people might get confused between your site and theirs
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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[edit]
C'mon! I'm not going to take this too far because it's not productive - we are a ski retailer, I don't work for Poivre - we just stock decent stuff inlcuding PB. (and I don't feel it's appropriate to name-drop our shop onto this thread anyway). The disputed brand name 'Usha' is a 'Fashion' brand (stuff retailling at under £50) not geniune sportswear & certainly not ski wear.
Thanks
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 5-07-12 10:15; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Interestingly the Alpine Room web site has a disclaimer about this product
| Quote: |
| "Please note: This jacket was previously listed as 'Usha' down jacket. This is a product name given to the garment by its high quality manufacturer Poivre Blanc. Its full product code is AC1200A USHA-WO. It is neither manufactured by, nor is there any connection with the trademarked German fashion brand of Usha made by Dutta." |
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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As an aside, we received a scammy type letter (can't recall the details) from an apparently real (I think German) law firm - but investigation revealed it was indeed a complete scam.
Apparently it is much easier to front yourself as a legitimate legal practice (letterhead, registration, website) than I would have imagined... Originally I was going to call the firm to inform them that someone was passing themselves off as, until I discovered they were not.
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Absolute most I'd do is, forward it to the Mfr. because they may be interested, quietly remove any infringing words (if you're concerned), and then frame the letter. Would never respond.
Most a C+D would have is an attempt at reclaiming the costs of the legal letter... which, knowing Germany, would NOT be an email, but registered delivery post, signed and countersigned in real ink, and a genuine wax seal too. If they want 100K, then that'll be for continued genuine infringement, and they'll do that via the court.
the clue was already in the title
IANAL.
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FraserP, Er, yes, yes there is a disclaimer now, isn't there -
Well, thought it wouldn't do any harm, under the circumstances
Our feeling was that the whole correspondance probably wasn't 'right'. But also don't want to name our business on here in the thread, in case of repercussions, if there is any atom of authenticity about the situation.
Cheers
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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tiggerific, sorry just a bit of a tease - maybe i's a bit more Essex/Paris than what I'd usually consider ski attire. I fully accept there's a market for it.
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fatbob, Oh yes - it's girly, flattering & not terribly technical (but Essex/Paris is fairly on the ball, we aren't talking about people that ski couloirs in the Dolomites).
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FAQ
