 Poster: A snowHead
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| from their perspective they'd rather give the deposit back and this 'annoying client' can go somewhere else. |
As with most business nowadays i would suggest that customer service is probably the next major selling point behind price. And as such i think that Crystal should do as much as possible to ensure their clients are entirely satisfied.
In my line of work pretty much every one of our customers are contacted and asked 'how likely they are to recommend' on a scale on 1-10. Anything below an 8 is considered a fail. We do this because we need happy customers or our business will eventually die.
So if Crystal do believe me to be 'Annoying' for being a little bit miffed that the holiday i had booked in good faith, well in advance, has been tarnished by their inability to organise their accommodation then that is somewhat out of order don't you think? We ask our clients how we can make things right for them.
I don't believe i have been unreasonable. They have offered to discount another apartment by £200 (which wasn't suitable) and a lift pass is less than that, but i know that is a simplistic way of looking at it.
I hope they don't think of me that way because i don't wish to be. I'm just pissed off that they sold me something they couldn't deliver.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So what are you going to do? If it were me and I wasnt happy with the alternative I would get my money back and book with some one else, I dont know if Crsytal works the same way but companies like Sky it is only the cancellation department that can offer deals to keep you
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Snapzzz, Why do you care what a big TO like Crystal thinks of you personally? Drive the hardest deal you can from them and once they refuse to budge either accept their offer or get your money back and go elsewhere. But don't cut off your nose to spte your face....there are many more people satisfied with Crystal than not so they must be doing something right. I have travelled with Inghams, Crystal and Neilson and have to say they are all much the same but probably the best service we had was from Crystal. That said we didn't have our plans cancelled like you have which admittedly sucks. Best of luck getting sorted
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| So what are you going to do? If it were me and I wasnt happy with the alternative I would get my money back and book with some one else, I dont know if Crsytal works the same way but companies like Sky it is only the cancellation department that can offer deals to keep you |
How true is that. I had issues with Sky and Virgin Media in the past and when I got through to actual cancellation of contract I was then dealing with the best sales staff in their companies and they looked after me royally!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| So what are you going to do? If it were me and I wasnt happy with the alternative I would get my money back and book with some one else, I dont know if Crsytal works the same way but companies like Sky it is only the cancellation department that can offer deals to keep you |
Im still thinking it over as i have time to consider but it looks like i am going to cancel and learn from it.
| jirac18 wrote: |
| Snapzzz, Why do you care what a big TO like Crystal thinks of you personally? |
I realise that a TO is just a faceless business and i am just another number on a balance sheet so Crystal in reality doesn't really have an opinion of me personally.
But having said that i have never liked the idea of being thought of negatively. I guess thats just my personality, i care what people think of me whoever it is.
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| Snapzzz wrote: |
I don't believe i have been unreasonable. They have offered to discount another apartment by £200 (which wasn't suitable) and a lift pass is less than that, but i know that is a simplistic way of looking at it.
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I agree. I wouldn't be happy with loosing a bedroom either and a bit of an apology via a lift pass is the least they can do to. Surely they need to look at the big picture here and remember that loosing this customer once could result in loosing that customer for his full skiing life.
I am currently looking to book my next two ski holidays this weekend once my wife has been granted approval from her boss but wonder if i should strike Crystal from my thoughts given that they can cancel accommodation like this.
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bertie bassett, I bow to your knowledge, this in just what I was informed in Andorra - but maybe thats because they're struggling to get people over there anyway due to recent bad seasons, I don't know. I know the Bulgarian lift passes were profitable because they were so cheap in the first place.
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Where Crystal and others offer 2-1 lift passes and offer other discounts it's generally because the lift company are offering that incentive to get people skiing in their area (as opposed to another) at certain times of the year, or Crystal have negotiated with all their areas for certain times of the year. As New Year week is generally the 2nd busiest week of the year the likelihood of an area offering a 2-1 deal or another discount is slim. Crystal aren't bearing the cost of the lift pass when they offer a 2-1 deal. Whether they make a margin/kickback/referral fee out of a lift pass is immaterial, as the lift pass still has a cost to Crystal, so I think trying to get a lift pass from them is unlikely to succeed.
You stand a greater chance of getting a sweetener from them for something that they've not had to pay for, or there's already a fixed cost to them regardless of whether you are there/using it. So you are best negotiating over something else I think - what that would be I'm not sure!!
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| bobmcstuff wrote: |
wickyb, that'll be the airline's fault, so whoever Crystal charter with (Monarch?).
I went DIY this year and the airline decided to move the flights round by a few hours. Right pain as we were meeting people off another flight so it meant we had to change the transfer too. So it's not exactly Crystal's fault (unless they sat on the information for a while before letting you know of course!). |
Crystal use Thomson Fly mostly (I've seen Easyjet flights offered too), who are within the TUI Group. So they may have some control over what the airline does, although I guess they still have to negotiate with airports over timetables at this stage. Easier to do this time of year when fewer seats on a plane would be sold.
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TOs very rarely own accommodation (with the exception of 'club' hotels and some chalets), so if accommodation is cancelled or changed after booking it is because the accommodation provider has generated this change, usually completely out of the TO's control. Their obligation to the customer is to provide something equivalent to the customer's satisfaction, or a complete refund. Similarly with flights, although Thomsonfly and Crystal are both part of TUI they are operated independently of each other and changes to flight timings are outside of the TO's control. Same rules apply. Crystal aren't treating you badly, they are just now in a position where they can't offer the exact holiday you originally booked.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Chris Bish wrote: |
Had two Crystal holidays so far this year. Both superbly run and excellent value. Better than anything I could arrange for myself. Maybe I'm just lucky.
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I'm pretty certain that the greater percentage of holidays booked must meet the expectations of the customer, otherwise there would be even more complaints on this forum.
What I have found with Crystal, and others seem to agree, is that when it goes wrong, they are not prepared to try and do enough to keep the customer happy. To avoid this happening again, I now don't even bother considering booking with Crystal.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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queen bodecia, they don't own the clubhotels either.
Snapzzz, I did a training course with Crystal once - it lasted the best part of 10 days and they didn't mention customer servive once.
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Lizzard, yes I realise some are owned and some are leased, but they are less likely to have changes imposed by accommodation providers.
From my experiences Crystal have been making improvements in customer service in the past few seasons, plus they remain the only TO that offers a huge range of destinations, accommodation types and departure airports. There are plenty of other TOs out there but if you want a single room somewhere and don't want to fly from Gatwick (just as an example), Crystal are more likely to be able to fulfill your requirements.
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You know it makes sense.
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Snapzzz, The TO model at the volume end of the market doesn't really care about customer service or recommendation - it knows it's a price-driven, largely commoditised business and the impact of every "bad" word of mouth is neutralised by the sheer volume of indifferent or broadly positive outcomes. If customer service were a major influencer you'd start to see daylight between the major brands in terms of feedback as someone would surely be using it as an engine for increased market share.
Your problem is typical of one that arises every year - because of the bizarre extended sales cycle of package holidays and law around reasonable change it simply can't be the case that you are buying a cast iron guaranteed service that far in advance - what you're buying is a vague promise that if service happens to available in the format specified when time comes around you'll have priority over it. 99% of the time that promise is delivered. It beats me why people commit so far out for ski holidays but then I'm not desperately fussy nor obliged to travel in peak weeks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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queen bodecia, agree with the customer service improvements. We got a text then a call from resort a few days before going out on our last holiday asking if there was anything we might need or any questions we had.
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Poster: A snowHead
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fatbob , interesting points you made in your post above. What you say makes sense. Based on what you say, I would now say that they are selling a product, which they expect you to commit to by payment of a deposit, but they have no idea, and probably very little concern, whether they can actually provide that product, as promised, or not!
I can understand that you may 'not be desperately fussy nor obliged to travel in peak weeks' but unfortunately some of us are trying to book for large groups and if you leave it too late you can't get what the group needs. Also the holiday is 'sold' to the group as a specific package and when something gets changed b the TO, it can cause problems.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mr Marmot, surely it's just as much of an issue if a large group books ahead on a DIY basis? Things can change, the hotel/chalet/apartment complex may go bust, change ownership, burn down, etc. The airline might change the flights or go bust. So however you plan your holiday things might happen between the date of booking and the date of departure that change these arrangements. If you have booked all aspects independently on a DIY basis, you may incur further costs by having to make changes. With a TO, they are legally obliged to offer you an alternative or a full refund.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mr Marmot, Yep - that's one of the reasons why groups are a nightmare - significantly reduces your flexibility and exponentially increases the number of "non-negotiables" you have plus subsequent diva-ism when the luxury canapes turn out to be yesterday's bread toasted etc etc.
I wouldn't be as harsh as saying TOs have no idea as to whether they can supply you the product just that at the time the sales cycle starts they probably haven't finished the previous year's commercial contracts never mind the next years. So when a property owner fancies negotiating for a lease uplift they might have no choice but to drop the property. If you want to fix it you need to educate all consumers to book at a later point in the cycle. This might destroy a few more TOs through lack of cashflow but you'll end up with a more "certain" model then only subject to vagaries of flood, fire, theft, blizzard, legionella.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Snapzzz, The TO model at the volume end of the market doesn't really care about customer service or recommendation - it knows it's a price-driven, largely commoditised business and the impact of every "bad" word of mouth is neutralised by the sheer volume of indifferent or broadly positive outcomes. If customer service were a major influencer you'd start to see daylight between the major brands in terms of feedback as someone would surely be using it as an engine for increased market share. |
I think they do care about customer service but probably not as much as a nichy little operator. Fact is, out of 518,000 adult ski trip in the 10/11 season, Crystal carried 161,000 of 'em... that's about 31%. Just for mathematical reasons alone they are bound to get more complaints (and we all know what a whinging bunch of cretinous dipsticks some punters can be). I'd book with them any day if I wanted a package.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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oh FFS take the deposit and book elsewhere..... this is turning towards being a pandora
you came on made your point and loads of people have given you lots of ideas and options, yet so far as i can see you can't make your mind up whether to cancel or accept their alternative..... from experience their alternative will not meet your expectations ( because it is not your first choice from them) and you will be on here the week after telling of what a disaster it was and that you should have cancelled,
save yourself the aggregation and look elsewhere
/apologies for the short tone but it does sound like you just want a moan
if it were your business that people were moaning about you would be pretty hacked off, how do you think they feel (yes they are big enough not to really worry, but the principle is the same be it a one man band or a multi national)
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CEM, that has made me laugh...funny
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Snapzzz, businesses which clutter up my life and my inbox, after I've used them, with endless requests for feedback and evaluations and would I recommend their services to my friends get on my tits.
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CEM, I will agree with you in so far as to take the deposit and book elsewhere - I had an issue with a First Choice Booking that turned into a Crystal Booking and as a result they have probably lost about £20k worth of my bookings since. Their "customer service" is abysmal. I really dont understand why TO are allowed to break a contract with a customer at no loss while the customer, if he/she was to do the same would probably suffer the loss of hundreds. The OP booked a holiday, if the TO doesnt provide it then the customer should get a reasonable level of compensation - not just offered alternative accommodation or refund. Companies should only take the booking if they can guarantee the accommodation.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Companies should only take the booking if they can guarantee the accommodation.
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Quid pro quo Shimmy, that would mean contracting lots of beds, many of which would never get filled. Upshot... more expensive packages for all.
People never moan about upgrades do they?
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It's simply not possible. Accommodation providers change ownership, go out of business, renegotiate contracts, etc. The earlier you book, the more risk that something might change. TOs do offer compensation against changes if they occur close to the departure date as they can insure against this, but to insure for more than a few months in advance would hike up all costs considerably. Accommodation can never be guaranteed, what if a hotel goes up in smoke?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| what if a hotel goes up in smoke? |
sometimes an improvement.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bode Swiller, I can think of a few examples where that would be the case! 
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Mr Marmot, surely it's just as much of an issue if a large group books ahead on a DIY basis? Things can change, the hotel/chalet/apartment complex may go bust, change ownership, burn down, etc. The airline might change the flights or go bust. So however you plan your holiday things might happen between the date of booking and the date of departure that change these arrangements. If you have booked all aspects independently on a DIY basis, you may incur further costs by having to make changes. With a TO, they are legally obliged to offer you an alternative or a full refund. |
Don't disagree Queen B , anything can go wrong with anything at anytime. But that is not actually the point. Many of us imagine (obviously misguidedly) that a TO has the skills, experience, resources and buying power to cope with a sudden potentially holiday-spoiling incident in a way that a DIYer just couldn't. This is why our large group books with a TO and doesn't try to DIY. In fact, what seems to happen is that the TO ensures that any solution they offer to the problem will not be acceptable to their customer in a 'take it or just pi** off' manner. So having to offer an 'alternative' means nothing when the alternative is not suitable to the customer.
In our case, I still can't believe Crystal didn't have a contract with the hotel they suddenly could no longer offer us after taking our deposit three months earlier. My fertile imagination has them taking a possible 'failure to fulfil the contract' compensation from the hotel, offering us an alternative which was entirely unsuitable, and then rubbing their hands together at the money they made whilst just losing a few customers forever. Short term profit against a longer-term loss? Obviously, I could be absolutely wrong in my' imaginings', but our group decided they could never trust Crystal again.
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You know it makes sense.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| ....... Accommodation can never be guaranteed, what if a hotel goes up in smoke? |
Offer the customer an alternative that is clearly much much better than the original, and I would guess that 99% of customers would be happy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just so everyone's aware, we have been watching this thread with interest and I have now contacted the original poster.
Also to note a lot of the negative stuff is simply not true. But hey ho.
Thanks
Simon
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Mr Marmot wrote: |
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| ....... Accommodation can never be guaranteed, what if a hotel goes up in smoke? |
Offer the customer an alternative that is clearly much much better than the original, and I would guess that 99% of customers would be happy. |
Not always possible if the other hotels are all booked up. It leaves the TO scrabbling to find anything that might be free in some cases, especially in the busy weeks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| feef wrote: |
| Mr Marmot wrote: |
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| ....... Accommodation can never be guaranteed, what if a hotel goes up in smoke? |
Offer the customer an alternative that is clearly much much better than the original, and I would guess that 99% of customers would be happy. |
Not always possible if the other hotels are all booked up. It leaves the TO scrabbling to find anything that might be free in some cases, especially in the busy weeks |
Of course it is not always possible, but I believe it is more often possible than not. Shall we argue about the percentages? I also appreciate it would often cost the TO more than they are prepared to pay to keep the customer happy.
By the way, just so everyone is aware, my 'negative stuff' is true.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Simon Cross wrote: |
Just so everyone's aware, we have been watching this thread with interest and I have now contacted the original poster.
Also to note a lot of the negative stuff is simply not true. But hey ho.
Thanks
Simon |
Are you saying that the OP is a liar? Not wishing to stir or anything 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Having worked extensively in client/customer-facing roles, I am well aware that some people want the moon on a stick and will never be satisfied. Some people even seem to be dissatisfied that a company wants to make a profit out of serving them and expect discounts and freebies simply for being awkward. All we can ever do is our best whilst striving to maintain profit levels and within legal parameters.
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Simon Cross, Good luck with the OP, seems like a moaner to me!!
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Bode Swiller, we do have a naughty stool, you know 
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achilles, is that the one that's turned upside down?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bode Swiller, funny
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Shimmy Alcott, not when you're invited to sit on it
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FAQ
