 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anyone know what infrastructure improvement will be made to the 4-vallees region this summer? Are they going to replace the cr4p 2 seater and drag from Siviez to Plan du Fou? Any chance of snowmaking on Prarion slopes? Are they going to improve the link from Siviez to Veysonnaz?
No doubt all the improvements will be on the Verbier side again (eg link from Chable to Bruson etc). When will the rest of the 4-vallees region get its act together?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Le Chable to Bruson.
Replace the restaurant at top of the Jumbo.
That's all I know of.
All the lifts you mention do need upgrading, but in fairness it is not Verbier hogging all the funds....."your" lifts are owned and run by a different lift company.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rungsp, Agreed - TeleNendaz (presume itrs owned by a Founier?) seems rather reluctant to invest in infrastructure? 
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| Quote: |
| When will the rest of the 4-vallees region get its act together? |
Hopefully never...
Fast lifts = horrible busy motorway pistes and powder skied out by 10am.
T-bars, 2 man chairs and poma's rule 
Is Le Chable to Bruson certainly going ahead ?
They have been trying to get planning permission for that lift for years.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Haggis_Trap, this summer I was told, and that is what the local press reported too.
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Interesting that the Le Chable -> Bruson looks set to go ahead. They have been talking about that for many years.
Intrawest even wanted to buy the whole place and develop a modern resort with hotels etc. But that proposal got overturned by the government after last minute appeals in 2007/8.
Back when i was living in Verbier as a ski bum used to ski in Bruson lots. Especially weekend powder days to escape the crowds.
New access lift will obviously make access to Bruson much easier. Though hopefully it wont lose any of its rustic charm.
Bruson is a real example of proper back to basic skiing. (IMVHO modern lifts + commercial development / exploitation isn't always a good thing - especially if you like powder with no crowds!)
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Start Again and Rebrand
Bit of a joke to make any comparative with 3 Vallees .. its crap at that level
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It looks like the Bruson - Le Châble link is in doubt for this winter. There have been "various technical difficulties at the last minute and delays in the authorisation process" according to Téléverbier. There has also been opposition to the snow making system proposed for Bruson from the company that runs the hydroelectricity operations in the Val de Bagnes. It is very likely that the only sign of the Bruson link this winter will be the Bruson branded télécabine perched on top of the Medran ticket office.
There have also been new objections to the Esserts-Savolyeres project in relation to the location of the departure station and the plan to submerge the return piste under the road to Carrefour. This was due to be constructed next summer.
Whilst the Bruson link will be convenient, I'm not that sad to have one more winter of tranquility over there.
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^ Interesting - thanks for the update.
The Bruson telecabin has been in the pipeline for almost 10 years.....
| Quote: |
| Whilst the Bruson link will be convenient, I'm not that sad to have one more winter of tranquility over there. |
110%. Bruson is a great place to escape the Verbier weekend crowds 
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| When will the rest of the 4-vallees region get its act together? |
Hopefully never...
Fast lifts = horrible busy motorway pistes and powder skied out by 10am.
T-bars, 2 man chairs and poma's rule
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Better than slow lifts and horrible busy motorway pistes and powder skied out by 10am.
They need to develop the area between Thyon and Siviez imo.
The Nendaz situation is untenable and the lack of investment is damaging the place - possibly irreparably.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Verbier skied out by 10am ? Your obviously looking in the wrong places
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Verbier skied out by 10am ? Your obviously looking in the wrong places |
I was exaggerating for comic effect.
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Out of interest - is the new gondola going to Bruson or all the way to Moay ?
Really hope they don't build more pistes over there..... Though I suspect that might be part of the plan.
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You know it makes sense.
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The Les Masses replacement 2 man has been postponed for another year - again.
Planning issues.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Haggis_Trap, It's going to Moay with an intermediate station at La Côt. I think in time we may see some more terrain opened up around the Six Blanc.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
The Nendaz situation is untenable and the lack of investment is damaging the place
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Fifespud, Agreed, its well overdue and must be holding back people going back. I've been many times but not again until they sort the lifts/ link over to Siviez, that goddam bus is a nightmare! All I hear its apparently feuding family's that can't agree re access etc (don't know if thats true?).........well one things for sure they're agreeing on one thing, a missed opportunity for every year that goes by, they need a day out to Arlberg to see what investment and cooperation looks like. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| Quote: |
The Nendaz situation is untenable and the lack of investment is damaging the place
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Fifespud, Agreed, its well overdue and must be holding back people going back. I've been many times but not again until they sort the lifts/ link over to Siviez, that goddam bus is a nightmare! All I hear its apparently feuding family's that can't agree re access etc (don't know if thats true?).........well one things for sure they're agreeing on one thing, a missed opportunity for every year that goes by, they need a day out to Arlberg to see what investment and cooperation looks like. |
They continually say it's because they're not allowed to put snow cannons in at Prarion, which may be true but to me it's not the whole solution in any case. Who really wants to wait in a 45 minute queue to be dragged up a 2 mile poma to ski back on shitty sugar? Get a bubble in there. And replace the ancient 2 man up from Siviez and the 2 mile dog-leg poma whilst your at it.
Tele Nendaz have been coining it in - whilst the development has been marching on - and increasing numbers of punters turn up - why invest? - from their, short sighted, point of view.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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^ The Swiss are thankfully more strict, and thoughtful, about their planning regulations than the French. This is evidently clear in the design and architecture of their ski resorts. And also the vast number of smaller uncommercial resorts, such as Bruson etc.
Personally I respect the Swiss for this (rather than beliving it to be simply short sighted) - once you have bulldozed 400km of pistes, fired up some nasty high rise appartments, and built new ski lifts as far as the eye can see then its very hard to reverse the damage. The Tarranteise valley in France is a classic example of commerical ski development gone too far.
For sure sympathetic and well thought development is good. But skiers should also show a little more respect for the mountain landscape, and the numerous animals that live there? Rather than simply building lifts where ever they want....
| Quote: |
| Tele Nendaz have been coining it in |
Not strictly true. The people who have been coining it in are actually the property developers building holday homes in Nendaz. I am sure the lift company returns a good profit - but not mega bucks. The peak season in Nendaz is only about 10-12 weeks a year (the skiable south facing low altitude link to the rest of the 4-valleys is frequently broken early and late season).
One of the reasons I think the 4-Valleys is the best 'big' ski resort in Europe is because it hasn't been totally exploited with neon lights, high speed lifts and boring motorway pistes? The lift company has a policy of leaving the main Itinenary runs such as Vallon D'Arby, Gentians and Tortin as off piste zones as nature intended them to be skied. Importantly there are also lots on quiet and unspoilt zones (such as Bruson, L'Eteygeon or the Plan de Fou). There is simply nothing like that in the 3 Valleys, Val D'Isere or Les Arcs etc ?
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Haggis_Trap, I have no problem with planning regulations or sympathetic development of resorts/mountains, although of course having developed Nendaz into what is now sizeable resort, they do need to ensure that the infrastructure can support it? As far as I can see, the lift system has not at all developed to accommodate the increase in bed numbers in the resort? Making large numbers of people drive to Siviez each morning probably does more harm to the local environment then the damage that would be done to the to the trees (or lechin?) or whatever the WWF ( - pandas not wrestlers) are complaining about on Prarion...
However, my real gripe is with Telenendaz and their continued short sighted approach:
Why, for example, when they replaced the drag on Alpage did they not go all the way up to Tracoute? The drag (which is surely longer then many chairlifts across Europe) stops about 10m short of the top of the slope - simply daft!
Most importantly, how is it that Tele-Verbier can continue to improve its infrastructure year on year but Telenedaz can't/doesn't? Both Nendaz and Verbier are subject to the same laws and restrictions yet Verbier's lift system is as good as any, while Nendaz seems stuck in the 70's - all very quaint and charming however try telling that to my 7 year old when she needs to take a break when she gets to the top of the Alpage and has to still basically climb up a steep hill to get to Tracoute.
Considering the integration of ski areas across Europe and the smart use of lifts, why would anyone come to the 4-Vallees (other then go to the very highly priced Verbier) when the connections and infrastructure is so poor? Yes – I love the Vallon D’Arby too, but try getting there from Nendaz in early March when Parion in closed!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Haggis_Trap, 1556garyt, All good points and I agree with everything said here, but would also add that I believe there's a bigger issue than a bunch of Marmots getting ski'd over here, there's a family's dispute getting in the way of development here and the Televerbier/ Telenendaz lift companies are not one company and have vested interests and are not being encouraged to get their heads together for the greater good of Nendaz. Being blunt it would suit Verbier for Nendaz to remain a separate entity, after all who ski's from Verbier into Nendaz for the day when theyve got Mont Fort, Vallon D'Arby, Tortin, Mont Fort, Gentianes etc.
New investment and improved infrastructre doesnt necessarily mean spoiling the flaura/ fauna and wildlife habitats - look at the Rendlbahn, Nassereinbahn and Galzigbahn plus many others in Arlberg for example that have been constructed in Arlberg region in the last 10 years integrated into the environment sympathetically, it can be done with proper planning and heli-based construction techniques rather than quarrying out the mountains as the French did in the 80's and early 90's as they prepared for the Alberville Olympics. I agree the Tarentaise valley is a real shame, just a pity that the 70's architecture will be there for another 50/ 100 years as the new low-rise sympathetically built stuff replaces the tower blocks, the legacy of mistakes 40 years ago will be there for many years.
If Nendaz does not wake up it'll fall by the wayside in 10 years IMO, very sad, but I've decided I am not going back until they sort it, and many others must feel the same way.
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double post 
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 27-07-12 11:58; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
| who ski's from Verbier into Nendaz for the day |
^ Funnily enough both the Mont-Fort and Gentianes Cable cars are both Tele-Nendaz lifts.
Both cable cars have had significant money + upgrades spent on them in recent years.
Being Switzerland I have no doubt there are a multitude of local (and family) politics at play. I am sure the Nendaz to Siviez link will eventually be upgraded - however.... I also totally respect the decision of the Swiss to consider ecological factors, instead of simple commercial ones, when building new ski lifts.
Bruson is a classic example. If Intrawest (developers of Whistler) has been allowed to buy it in 2006 the place would be trashed by now? Not all commercial development is 'good'.
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| 1556garyt wrote: |
Haggis_Trap, I have no problem with planning regulations or sympathetic development of resorts/mountains, although of course having developed Nendaz into what is now sizeable resort, they do need to ensure that the infrastructure can support it? As far as I can see, the lift system has not at all developed to accommodate the increase in bed numbers in the resort? Making large numbers of people drive to Siviez each morning probably does more harm to the local environment then the damage that would be done to the to the trees (or lechin?) or whatever the WWF ( - pandas not wrestlers) are complaining about on Prarion...
However, my real gripe is with Telenendaz and their continued short sighted approach:
Why, for example, when they replaced the drag on Alpage did they not go all the way up to Tracoute? The drag (which is surely longer then many chairlifts across Europe) stops about 10m short of the top of the slope - simply daft!
Most importantly, how is it that Tele-Verbier can continue to improve its infrastructure year on year but Telenedaz can't/doesn't? Both Nendaz and Verbier are subject to the same laws and restrictions yet Verbier's lift system is as good as any, while Nendaz seems stuck in the 70's - all very quaint and charming however try telling that to my 7 year old when she needs to take a break when she gets to the top of the Alpage and has to still basically climb up a steep hill to get to Tracoute.
Considering the integration of ski areas across Europe and the smart use of lifts, why would anyone come to the 4-Vallees (other then go to the very highly priced Verbier) when the connections and infrastructure is so poor? Yes – I love the Vallon D’Arby too, but try getting there from Nendaz in early March when Parion in closed! |
Totally agree Gary. It also should not be forgotten that to a considerable extent the developers cashing in and the lift company are one and the same. The lift development should have gone hand in hand with the accommodation development - otherwise the latter shouldn't have been begun.
Marky mark - I agree with everything you say too.
Funnily enough I am beginning to find some of the 70's architecture - for example the Flaine stuff - is actually looking quite appealing now - it may well begin to look better than some of the mock giant chalets currently being built. Modern architecture is of course - very divisive!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| who ski's from Verbier into Nendaz for the day |
^ Funnily enough both the Mont-Fort and Gentianes Cable cars are both Tele-Nendaz lifts.
Both cable cars have had significant money + upgrades spent on them in recent years. |
Of course both these improvements mostly benefit the Verbier based skier over the Nendaz based skier (presumably so that the Verbier skiiers buy the more extensive lift pass?). Try skiing back to Nendaz from Siviez after about 3.30pm most afternoons - carnage!
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Great fun coming home to Nendaz down from the Col though, firstly down the moguls, feel sorry for the less proficient skiers down there, not an easy decent. The black after is a great schlep, again not easy. Nendaz blues on way home a great leg burner after a full day over the hill in 4V proper. Hope they sort the link sometime soon, cant see it personally but a great little place and deserves to be linked properly, or at lest have a decent bus service to/ from Siviez, this would help in the short term.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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1556garyt, sell up and buy in Verbier
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Don't know about Gary but if it comes to selling up I wouldn't be moving to Verbier - supposing I could afford it.
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[quote]
They need to develop the area between Thyon and Siviez imo.
Couldn't agree with Fifespud more - the area between Thyon and Siviez does need developing. The lifts in Thyon/Les Collons need updating, quite often they aren't even all operating.
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You know it makes sense.
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Agree re Thyon - Siviez on the Siviez side. Those drags and paths are tedious.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I never go up there anymore, wants sorting like all say above. Great shame its a brill area.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well pointed out Steve. It shows for all the talk of environmental protests etc, when there is a real will things can be done.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The plan du fou sector is crap tbh and is long overdue for modernization. Apparently they can't make snow in Prarion because of the ancient larch trees which are protected. I guess they feel snow making would create too much melt come spring and lead to soil erosion affecting the trees.
Apparently telenendaz are putting money back to make changes over the next few years if they have the cash to do that, that's according to their company report. From what I've read and heard the old 2 man chair and the platter lift will be replaced by a bubble. Apparently also the double drags beyong combatzaline are going to be replaced by a detachable chair. They are also talking about spending more money on the snow making system on the siviez side of plan du fou too.
I've also read the fixed prarion chair will get replaced with a higher capacity (and speed) detachable and if they're doing this then it would make sense that the drag goes too. I've often thought they could cut the corner so to speak and put a chair from tracouet direction right round to the cable car base station. If they then made that chair two way they could negate the problem of no snow making and the snow burning off early in the season.
Elsewhere the restaurant at col des gentianes is being put in at the mo http://www.performanceverbier.com/2012/08/the-new-restaurant-at-gentianes-and-other-cool-stuff-like-glass-floors/ its going to be a large dome structure to be a bigger version of the one at the top of mont fort.
Another thing I've seen is talk of a direct link from medran to somewhere in bruson, a lift along the same lines as the peak to peak at whistler blackcomb. But that one I'm not too sure of as it may just have been chatter on another ski related forum I look at with no hard facts to back it up.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Also there is talk that the piste de l'ours bubble is planned to be upgraded with a replacement 10 person bubble (think it was 10 as I remember), not sure what the timing on that is though.
Another thing I read recently was talking about the possibility of a lift link from Riddes into the circuit. Apparently a lift company (I forget which one) has been talking to the town council about the possibilities of this.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skir67, if you click on the link three posts above, there's a report on the Le Châble Bruson link which doesn't go across the valley, but down and up.
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| Steve Sparks wrote: |
| skir67, if you click on the link three posts above, there's a report on the Le Châble Bruson link which doesn't go across the valley, but down and up. |
yes, I know about that one and the fact it's going ahead. But I've also heard talk of the extra lift going directly across. However I've not seen anything concrete about that and it does seem a bit unlikely tbh.
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Something else I fotgot to mention is the replacement of the old la chaux chair and there are plans to put a lift up to col de la chaux from the line of the old la chaux lift which would give another link into the next valley. However it will be interesting to see how they keep near beginners from ending up on a slope beyond their capabilities. Perhaps 2 seperate lifts or a heavily signed intermediate get off point?
Although if they piste from col de la chaux to the la chaux bowl I suspect that run would be a relatively low intermediate grading.
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skir67, I dont think you mean col de La Chaux which is the haute route pass between the Bec des Rosses and Mt Fort. I think you're talking about the proposed lift up to the col on the south side of Mt Gele which then gives an access point down into the bottom of the col des gentianes. I presume they will piste it back down into La chaux once it's in place.
That one's due to go in in 2014.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Steve Sparks wrote: |
skir67, I dont think you mean col de La Chaux which is the haute route pass between the Bec des Rosses and Mt Fort. I think you're talking about the proposed lift up to the col on the south side of Mt Gele which then gives an access point down into the bottom of the col des gentianes. I presume they will piste it back down into La chaux once it's in place.
That one's due to go in in 2014. |
my bad, yep that's the one I meant col de mt gele.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
Funnily enough I am beginning to find some of the 70's architecture - for example the Flaine stuff - is actually looking quite appealing now - it may well begin to look better than some of the mock giant chalets currently being built. Modern architecture is of course - very divisive! |
Flaine was designed by a very good architect - it was more a matter of opinion of what was appropriate in the mountains. A pity that the original large number of major pieces of public art there were sold off to keep the resort afloat (including a Picasso). They are left with one large one by Dubuffet,
In summer the whole complex is completely empty. I went to look at it and walked around and saw one person briefly in the distance, It felt wierdly like a model of itself rather than a real place. A very strange experience.
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FAQ
