 Poster: A snowHead
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I tend to wash and proof gear with Nik wax tech wash, followed by squirt of Nik Wax TX Direct spray on - as per the instructions using the spray whilst the item is still damp.
When I did my tent with Grainers last year it categorically said to rub that product into the nylon and the Grainers product looks very similar to the TX Direct Spray on that I use on our ski and walking gear (I suspect both to be a suspension of silicone in an evaporable solvent).
Last year I used the Nik Wax double treatment on my kids walking jackets and can't say that I was overboard with the preformance of the treatment. I've just done them again and thought 'in for a penny in for a pound and it didn't work very well last year' and decided to vigorously rub the TX Direct into the surface after spraying thereby mimicking the Grainers type treatment. They are on the clothes line at the moment drying.
Given that many of you also treat your gear with products like these I thought I'd write down here what I did and revisit the thread later this year with feedback on whether there is any enhanced water repellency having rubbed in the TX Direct treatment as this might be useful to someone.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not 100% certain but are you supposed to use the tumble dryer to activate the treatment or possibly something like that to finish drying the item?
I think the outside of the garment spray application method your using must be the best otherwise the washin type does the inside which can,t be right even though its sold that way.
It would be interesting to know what the spray actually is and if its supposed to be breathable or is it just sales talk.
Perhaps it may be a form of 3M scotchguard?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Tirol 164, I've heard folks on SH's talk about using the tumble drier, but it isn't part of the TX Direct instructions so I've never done it.
I tend to think that the tumble drier could be a two edged sword. Yes, it could get it hot enough to activate the treatment onto the fibres, but on the other hand it must chuck around and batter the fibres so much that I reckon any coating would be damaged in the process. I've often wondered whether a warm iron would be better, but you'd have to watch that the temp didn't melt the fibres. Even so whether heat would help a product that doesn't specifically say to warm up the garment that it goes onto I've no idea.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Megamum, Goretex recommend tumble drying...
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| Wash your garment as often as you need to. In fact, washing and tumble-drying will actually help restore the water-repellency performance of a GORE-TEX® garment. See our Care Center for more information. |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kitenski, that's interesting, as I noted above I've always been a bit wary of doing anything like that. I take a lot of trouble to keep garments made of technical fabrics flat and uncreased and hence subjecting something to a tumble drier battering has always seemed a bit counter intuitive. I wonder what physical change it brings about in the goretex fibres that assists water repellency?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, This is what they say here http://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite/content/care-center/restoring-water-repellency
Restoring Water Repellency
“Wet out” can put a real damper on your day. That’s when liquid saturates your garment’s outer fabric layer above the GORE-TEX® membrane, leaving you feeling damp and clammy - as if your garment were leaking, even when it’s not.
To prevent wet out, all GORE-TEX® shell fabrics are treated with an ultra-thin treatment called DWR, a durable water repellent polymer that is applied to the outermost fabric layer. DWR penetrates the fibers and lowers the surface tension of the fabric, causing water to bead up and roll off this outer layer of fabric, instead of being absorbed.
DWR is not permanent, though. Regular wear and tear, plus exposure to dirt, detergents, insect repellent, and other impurities can shorten its lifespan. The good news is that restoring the water repellency of your GORE-TEX® shell is extremely easy.
How to Restore Water Repellency
GORE-TEX® outerwear:
Just machine wash it, rinse it, and put it in the dryer, being sure to follow the manufacturer’s instructions on the care label inside. The washing removes dirt and other contaminants and the heat from the dryer helps redistribute the DWR treatment on the fabric surface.
If water fails to bead up on the surface of your cleaned and tumble-dried garment, its DWR treatment has reached the end of its useful life. But don’t worry: You can restore the garment’s water repellency by applying a topical water repellency restorative (DWR treatment) for outdoor fabrics, available at your local outdoor retailer. We do not recommend wash-in treatments, as they can hinder your garment's breathability.
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kitenski, That's how I understand it. I only ever use spray-on proofer as a last resort. I wash Gore-tex with tech-wash and then tumble dry if its a shell, or steam iron if lined to restore the water beading properties. Usually the care labels on each garment tell you which method is appropriate. Then once dry I test them under the tap to make sure the water beads and runs off. Seems to work fine in most cases. But if not I then resort to washing again and using the spray-on method. Also seems to work, but I really hate the smell of it!
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yep, definately need to tumble dry it to get the best results
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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^ Yip - waterproofing needs heat to be properly absorbed into the garment.
Either...
1. tumble dry
2. leave to dry in warm sun
3. iron at very low heat.
HOWEVER... The spray on stuff is actually the best option.
First wash the garment with 'gore-tex tech-wash' (in a machine that has been rinsed clean from detergent) then apply spray on waterproofing. Doing so means that you don't waterproof the inside of your jacket and lose the breath-ability.
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Note goretex DON'T recommend the use of wash in reproofers....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Don't confuse water repellency with waterproofness.
Goretex is a physical membrane, another layer that's bonded onto the back of the external fabric. It works by having holes that are large enough to let water vapour through but not water droplets. This is how it's breathable but waterproof.
The external fabric is normally treated with a water repellent chemical to help minimise the absorbtion into the fabric (not into the fibres themselves, just the gaps between the fibres). This has 2 purposes. 1: reduce the wet weight of the garment and 2: improve the effectiveness of the goretex; if the outer layer is saturated, then the goretex membrane can't breathe as it's outside layer is already at 100% 'humidity'.
With breathable fabrics, you need to use a water repellent treatment, NOT a waterproofing treatment. Stuff like NikWax TX Direct or Granger's XT Proofer is designed to work with breathable fabrics and membranes. Granger's Superpruf, on the other hand is a silicone based waterproofing spray. This will certainly restore both water repellancy and waterproofness but at the expense of breathability as it will clog both the outer fabric and the microscopic pores in the membrane.
With regard to washing, use a soap based wash such as dreft if you're going to put it in the machine, rather than a detergent. The more powerful cleaning detergents can actually clean the water repellent treatments out of some outer fabrics. Soaps don't.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tirol 164,
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I think the outside of the garment spray application method your using must be the best otherwise the washin type does the inside which can,t be right even though its sold that way.
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Not done much DWR reapplication but I read recently (think it was in a UK climbing article but I can't find it) that the reapplication relies on some residual DWR coating remaining on the jacket, the applied molecules then bond to the existing ones and essentially make a thicker layer. By this logic the wash-in coatings would only adhere to the outer surface. The important thing being to ensure you don't alwait until all the DWR has been "rubbed" off before reapplying. Not sure about some of goretex's techno babble about compromised breathability, someone feel free to come along and correct me!
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