 Poster: A snowHead
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What is the formula for deciding what length of all terrain ski would suit me?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Renry, it really depends on your ability and technique. If this helps at all, I am 5'6" (and a bit) and I will be using a 176cm twip tip AT ski this year. I would describe myself as pretty competent on 90% of the accessable mountain but I am also quite lazy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Renry, don't go any longer than you have to. Find the shortest length of the ski you want that works comfortably. Any additional length is unnecessary. I'm 5'6" too and light and would probably be looking 170-175 for anything I was taking off piste much. probably not any longer.
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Coincidentaly im about 5'6" and weight 12 stone.
What do you actualy gain by using a longer ski?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Renry, A longer ski will give you more 'flotation' in powder, it will also be more stable at speed. Downsides are - they'll be heavier, more of a handfull in tight spaces, and more tiring to ski on.
Or (unless you are planning on going really fast) - not a lot really.
The downside of a short ski is that is won't be as stable as a longer one, although whenever I've seen people complain of this, it's usually the fault of the skier, not the ski.
As everyone else has said, go for the shortest you feel comfortable on.
It's probably as important to look at the width of the ski as well as the length.
And what do you mean by All Terrain ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Some skis such as the Metron range from Atomic are designed to be skied shorter. I'm 6' and recommended length is 164cm.
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I'm also 5ft 6! I also ski on 170-177 length!
Wow! Lets start a 5ft 6 club.
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AFAICT ski, I agree, length=stability IMHO is these days a myth. Used to be the case that you needed length to handle higher speeds, not so much these days and I believe definitely not for recreational uses. Agreed also that almost always the skier rather than the ski.
flying_squirrel, An excellent idea. We could call ourselves the "Tall Napoleons" or something (as he was only about 5' wasn't he? And then we'd have a fine excuse for bad behaviour, like invading Belgium.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Renry, with my sensible head on, I would agree with David Murdoch that there is no need to go for a long ski, apart from maybe a fatty for offpisting only.
By the way, zammo, I managed to get hold of a pair of Assassin MTX Pros, 176. Picking them up in a couple of weeks before I go back to France. V excited - first pair of skis I have actually bought since a pair of K2 Extremes (195cm!) in 1994....
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David Murdoch, I'd rather invade Italy - more moutains, better wine and more attractive women.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There's a link between length and speed but not stability, stability in a straight line is determined by the radius of the ski, thus if you wanted to go really fast and be stable you would choose a very long straight ski (as used by those people doing skijumping or the flying K), the ability to float over powder is determined by the surface area of a ski thus a long thin ski may float just as well as a shorter fatter ski, ease of turning is determined by the radius of a ski, often given in meters, this is the radius that the ski will carve a turn with, obviously a smaller number gives a tighter turn but will reduce the stability of the ski at speed
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Cathy Coins, mais oui, Josephine.
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You know it makes sense.
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flying_squirrel, the temptation got to you then? I picked mine up last week - I am currently refusing to put them in a ski bag and have them in the sitting room, next to my armchair. Mrs. Zammo not as keen on them as a piece of installation art as I am, but I like them, so there!
Of course, in general, it should not be forgotten that if you buy a twin-tip, not all of that 176 is in contact with snow while on piste ....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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flying_squirrel, Good point. I promote you to Field-Marshall Squirrel. (I am of course Napoleon Bonaparte, etc. etc. Thank you Nurse, may I have a little sip of water with that?)
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm roughly 14 stone, and ski a 170 on piste and a 179 twin tip off. (I'm about 6ft)
Height is not as important as weight with modern skis. In the old days of straight skis, a guy had to have really long skis. Now if you see someone with long skis, it may be a sign that he's trying to make up for deficiencies elsewhere (...which may or may not include his technique when skiing).
To add to DGOrfs comments - length and speed are related, but stiffness also comes into it, whether straight-lining or carving out turns - if you're on a longer ski which is soft, then a short, stiff ski will definitely be faster in the turns, and will probably be faster in a straight line too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch,
I would prefer to invade France, there's a grubby little patch down near the border with Switzerland and Italy that needs sorting out.
We can begin our channel defenses there, Horatio.!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Reading above, can we start a new category. We already have SnowBoarding, snowEvents & SnowReports, how about a SnowDwarves section.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wear The Fox Hat, no, no, no you have it all wrong. A real guy still has to have really long skis. Or they're doing the Inferno...
But seriously,why would a short (?) or stiff (?) be faster? I find fear/self-preservation is the usual discriminator...? I will grant you that a ski designed for higher speeds should "feel" more stable at higher speeds and may be stiffer, better damped, etc.
I can't see why you on your 170cm whatevers are going to be faster than me on my 210cm DH boards (junior, girls DH boards I will hasten to add. If I was a real guy I'd be on 220s but I'n in touch with my feminine side).
Or do you mean a stiffer short ski will allow you to ski faster than a long soft ski might? In which case aren't we back to the personal limit of confidence as constraint thing?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JT, I now promote you to Field Marshall T. (crikey, that would be Mr T. now would it? Fool!). Nurse, may I sit down? All that lithium's made me all wobbly.
Frosty the Snowman, don't be silly. There'd only be room for 7 and we're nearly at that limit. Anyway, dwarves like being UNDER mountains, not sliding elegantly OVER them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Murdoch, Wear The Fox Hat, I can defintely go faster on my 150cm 9S, than on my 174cm touring skis. Aren't we in danger of confusing Renry, ? 
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David Murdoch, surely skiing speed is only determined by the pressure of the ski on the snow i.e. dependent on the skiers weight and the skis surface area in contact with the snow? i.e. hold skiers weight constant and increase surface area = less pressure = more speed? (Talking only straight line here ...)
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ski, don't know about Renry, but I'm confused now as per my previous post
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ski, you aren't suggesting we've gone anywhere off topic here now are you? (150cm 9S? How tall are you? Would you like to join our alternative club? We call ourselves the "Tall Napoleons", a cunning stripe of irony running right through us like Blackpool rock).
In fairness, WTFH is exactly right. For a given ski there's a length that conforms to your weight (and to a degree, ability, but less so than before). Ski manufacturers can now build skis with fairly well understood performance characteristics. Apologies for the egg sucking lesson.
So IMHO, AFAIK, the upshot is, Renry, go test some skis. Find the ones you like best in whatever conditions you're interested in and get the shop to check the manufacturer's tables that they're the "correct" length for you. Actually, if they haven't given you the correct length in the first place you might be better buying from someone else.
WTFH, sorry, didn't properly read your post. But still - -how "long/short", how "stiff/soft". This is making me all woozy & I need a drink.
"Nurse, ask Wellington to come back with my brandy!"
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agavin, now I think we're talking. I just typed a huge long answer but it needs more time so, I'll just agree!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Murdoch, looking forward to your full long answer sometime later ... 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Renry, Slush and Rubble have a reasonable good guide to ski sizing at:
http://www.snowandrock.com/advice/buying_guides_skis.asp
If you're 5'6 and 12 stone, and given that you're (if I recall correctly from other threads) relatively new to skiing but learning rapidly, I'd prob suggest about 160-165. But as antoeknee states, the trend is for shorter skis, and skis like the Atomic Metron are desinged to be skied shorter (Atomic provide a separate scale for these).
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You know it makes sense.
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David Murdoch, what I'm saying is that me on my Head iXRCs, which are 170cm versus me on a pair of Salomon Crossmax 8s in a 190cm length, at high speeds, the Salomons will flap around, while the Heads will still be stable. As the speed gets higher, this then becomes an issue in turns, because the Salomons won't hold their edges, and so will go into a skid, while the Heads will still grip and carve.
All skis have speed limits - generally, softer ones have lower limits, so when you try to go fast on them, they start to flap around, this means loss of grip, control, and speed. There's only so fast that they'll go.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ski wrote: |
| agavin, You are probably right on a perfectly flat piste going straight (Flying K anyone ?).. but I was assuming some turns |
Well, you also need to include friction.
Surely a ski on edge has less friction with the snow than a ski flat on its base.
A carved turn is faster than a skidded turn.
And now we're back to stif skis being able to hold a carve, while soft skis will flap out of it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Surely a ski on edge has less friction with the snow than a ski flat on its base.
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Not sure about that, think a flat ski (less pressure) has less friction - surely ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ski, I would think so ... unless the added pressure on an edge changes the characteristics of the snow and reduces drag a bit like ice-skates? Maybe??? Too many variables! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Or... test a few lengths and go for the longest ski you can get away with...
Over the years I've come down from 215, the shortest I owned was 177 but now back up to 190 and looking for a ski around 193-195 for this winter.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Or... test a few lengths and go for the longest ski you can get away with...
Over the years I've come down from 215, the shortest I owned was 177 but now back up to 190 and looking for a ski around 193-195 for this winter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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agavin,
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unless the added pressure on an edge changes the characteristics of the snow and reduces drag a bit like ice-skates? Maybe??? Too many variables!
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Ice skates work (I guess) by melting the ice - to make is slippy. Skis do this too, but must do it better when flat, otherwise racers would always be on a edged ski ......
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ski wrote: |
agavin,
Ice skates work (I guess) by melting the ice - to make is slippy. |
Ice is always slippy! The (simplified) reason is that the water molecules at the edge of the ice do not have other water molecules they can bond with and so for solid ice. For this reason there is a "quasi-liquid" layer at the surface and it is this that is slippy.
I am not clear why skis are faster when flat than on edge, I assume (always dangerous!) that the edge cuts into the snow and so has more friction than the flat "surfing" over the surface.
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| ski wrote: |
agavin,
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unless the added pressure on an edge changes the characteristics of the snow and reduces drag a bit like ice-skates? Maybe??? Too many variables!
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Ice skates work (I guess) by melting the ice - to make is slippy. Skis do this too, but must do it better when flat, otherwise racers would always be on a edged ski ...... |
But racers do spend a LOT of their time on edge!
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ski,
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Ice skates work (I guess) by melting the ice - to make is slippy.
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This is covered in a pretty interesting (to me!) book entitled "Back-of-the-Envelope Physics". Basically there is a thin film of water between the skate blade and the ice. At 0 C the layer of water is several hundred molecules thick and at -10 C it is almost gone. There is a trade-off between the increased friction caused by the blade crushing the soft ice and sinking in at 0 C and the reduced friction at -10 C but the increased stickiness of the ice caused by absence of the water layer. The optimum temperature for speed skating is -7 C.
In any event, the pressure exerted by the skate blade isn't responsible and only lowers the melting point by about 1/20 C.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As seems to be the general opinion, ski a few and see. The terrain you ski, your height and weight, the type of ski you choose will all contribute. In general, shorter skis are easier to turn, but sink off piste. However, if you are skiing off piste, you probably know that.
I would think you are looking at 165-170.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
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But racers do spend a LOT of their time on edge!
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But I think those who spend LEAST time on the edge win ?
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FAQ
I ski on 160s 
