new to even thinking about a ski holiday!

A snowHead

Hi all

So have recently decided to go skiing for Christmas this year, dates December 22nd to 29th 2012. Having read up a little this seems to be early season and not all ski resorts will have snow. So as total beginners what resorts should we look at that will have the best hope for snow and accommodate beginners?

Thanks

A snowHead

Hello,
Have a look at Obergurgl, it's the highest parish in Austria,pretty much snow guaranteed. Lift pass will be about 220 euros ish, it's not cheap BUT a lovely place, hotels are close to lifts, ski shops, ski school. As beginners you don't want to be trudging around in the cold,walking for miles in boots lugging skis. If you like to swim/ spa many hotels have super inclusive facilities, free afternoon snacks are included and free kids club.
Suggest you have a good look at tripadvisor, then look at Crystal/ Inghams for prices.
If you Google, Obergurgl webcam bergfex, you can have a look at the pistes and town.
Have a wonderful time.
Vx snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Crystal do all in packages for people new to skiing. They release these at the end of the summer and they seem like a reasonable deal (not interested in them myself so never work out the relative costs).

It takes a lot of the hassle and decision making out of what can be a daunting process.

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new2skiing, welcome to Snowheads.

You're right, Christmas is quite early but the majority of resorts would hope to have snow by then - it can be a bit nailbiting, as the green pastures persist - that's what happened last year, then the heavens opened before Christmas and dumped enormous quantities of snow across great swathes of the Alps.

Can you give us a bit more to go on? What kind of ages are you? Family? Group of friends? What other sport do you do? What kind of budget? What sort of thing do you like? We assume you'll like skiing, but apart from that, it's a holiday, and depending on whether you like to go out to noisy bars and party hard, nod off after dinner with a glass of brandy and good book, or something in between, there are different places which might suit you.

If you have a look through the brochures - like Crystal, but look at others too, you'll get a good feel for what's on offer. The "intro to skiing" weeks might certainly be a good idea - though possibly not available Christmas week.

Most (not quite all) resorts are suitable for beginners - it's useful to find somewhere which has beginners slopes at the top of the mountain, not just right down in the valley. You're much more snowsure then, and it's great to get up there.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

new2skiing, good advice from Tiger2. For a first time trip it is better to take a package to a resort. There are loads of resorts suitable for beginners so maybe thinking about which countries you would like to visit may help you to reduce the list of possibles. Another thing to consider is what type of experience do you want in terms of accommodation and the range of après ski experiences (not just the boozy ones that is). snowHead

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new2skiing, Welcome to the addictive world of skiing! Laughing

As others have said, the major tour operators often do good value beginner packages - the resorts themselves encourage and support these deals as it's obviously in their interest to attract new people to skiing.
One thing you might consider (depending on your location) is to have an introductory beginner lesson(s) in one of the indoor snowdomes in the UK. This gets you used to the feel of the boots and skis and the first tentative attempts at sliding on snow - this means that when you go out to the resort you are a bit ahead of others who have never been skiing at all.

Enjoy your ski holiday, but as I said it can be addictive, and your wallet may be the poorer for it over the coming years! Toofy Grin

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Thanks for all that plenty to look into. We’re early to mid 30s, no kids, Irish but not booze hounds! At present were golfers so skiings a big change. I suppose somewhere relaxed and I do like badgerlover suggestion of not tracking miles in boots with skis.

After all it is free

+1 for Obergurgl. It would be ideal.

For a first timer I think the quality of the ski school can make a big difference to how much you enjoy your first ski holiday. It might be worth factoring that it to your choice of resort, and perhaps asking for recommendations about ski schools.

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After a quick look is there anywhere a little less expensive? Nearly €1600 each including beginner ski package. A little steep I know Christmas is going to be an expensive time but are there any other options I could look at? Thanks

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new2skiing, Christmas is expensive (but not as pricey as New Year) and the problem of not knowing where the snow is means that high resorts (like Obergurgl) can charge full whack for people who book early. Booking now you are gambling on a whole lot of things including currency fluctuations. My advice would be to wait until late summer/early autumn as the earliest to even think of looking/booking.

The big operators always launch their season's offerings with a book early discount offer.

Some people book years in advance to secure their preferred location/accommodation. Since you have no pre-conceived preferences you don't need to do this.

snow reports

new2skiing, Avoid Xmas. It's colder, more crowded, less snow sure, more expensive, plus shorter hours of daylight, than any other time of the season. Also avoid half term and Easter. Unless you are a teacher try and choose another date.

Welcome to snowheads.

jbob, I've never found Easter to be particularly busy in France. I've been the last 5 and will be there again this year, Les Deux Alpes every year (plus Alpe D'Huez also one year).

You know it makes sense.

new2skiing,

Did you have any preference on country?

Were you after a pretty alpine village with lots of wooden chalet type buildings, or not so fussy where you stay? You're not big drinkers (so we don't rule France out), don't want to be tramping round in ski boots (who does) - any other requirements?

Like golf, skiing is both expensive and addictive! Not that I play golf I'll have you know, but most of the people I ski with do.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I agree with some of the points made like avoid peak periods like Christmas if you can as late January or early March offer much better value, make sure you don't need to walk miles in ski boots carrying skis (as it takes some getting used to), and depending on the time of year i.e. if early or late season choose somewhere where there are higher beginner slopes in case you should need them. However I can't agree Obergurgl is a good choice as it will be expensive and offer far more skiing than you'll do in your first week. Far better particularly for Christmas week to pick a little resort where lift passes, ski schools, accommodation are cheaper. There are some small areas that offer there own deals of inclusive passes or free lessons for example Schwaz-Pill (Austria) or Chamrouse (France). It will be harder work for you but maybe some investigation before you go will further wet your appetite for the trip. Beware the brochure all inclusives as these may or may not be good value. You can book cheap skis/boots online with someone like skiset if required. It may also be worth considering combining or at least having the option of doing non ski things during the trip you then haven't put all your eggs in one basket. By the way for me the best beginner lifts are the magic carpets and button lifts, avoid beginner areas with T-bars at all costs, rope tows aren't nice, and chairs although eventually good will take some time to get used to (special slow/beginner ones are much easier). Obviously gondola type lifts are ok but you won't use for your practicing as they'll go longer distances. Note also that some skiers like any other sample of people are inconsiderate so having a ski area away from other red/black pistes or in a small area where better skiers won't bother going means you don't have idiots skiing fast scaring you to death. Similarly on the lifts you won't have some impatient person hassling you.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Agreed but a larger resort doesn't guarantee you'll get an English speaking instructor and an English speaking instructor doesn't imply a good instructor. A resort with generally less English is not necessarily a bad thing Smile

! It brings another point to mind though that it may be best to have a few days private lessons rather than the group week lessons. I think you improve far quicker and you'll be able to explore the area more later in the week. The group lessons are more social though. Also half day lessons and half days of your own practice is a good mix I think.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Just to give you a few more resort ideas, the following are generally more reasonably priced. These should give you a balance of good skiing for beginners, moderately snow sure, some English spoken (for ski school). It is also worth noting that some resorts offer cheaper beginner passes or free beginner lifts,which is great for the first few days and saves you some cash.

In France: Flaine, Risoul, Montgenevre, Morzine, Les Deux Alpes, Serre Chevalier.

In Italy: Sauze d'Oulx (or othe milky way resorts), Passo Tonale, Folgarida/Madonna di Campiglio.

Austria: Saalbach, Alpbach, Soll, Bad Gastein, Schladming

You could also look at Andorra, as it tends to be in the budget end and generally avoid Swiss resorts as these tend to be more pricey.

Work out what your priotities and preferences are and then look around for deals.
Hotel/hostel/catered chalet/self catering apartment /dont mind?
Budget? 5* luxury, mid range, or cheap as chips?
Choice of ski school/english speaking school?
Doorstep skiing/short walk/ski bus to slopes/don't mind?
Lots of other activities (ice skating, shopping, skidoo, cinema) or quaint quiet village?
Big party scene/choice of bars and restaurants/one or two local bars?
All food included/some food included/freedom to eat when and where you like?

Welcome to the addiction!

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new2skiing,
ALthough you say:

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Picking up on other's comments regarding ski schools. In my personal experience as a new skier the single most important thing for you both is quality instruction. Obviously simply having a native speaking British instructor does not guarantee this. However, as interpretation of instruction is down to the individual if I were in your shoes I would only choose a resort with a resident British ski school. There are loads of them out there :

La Plagne
Les Gets
Alpe d'Huez
Courcheval
Meribel

We ski'd in La Plagne this Xmas and the snow was epic although as has previously been mentioned this season has been better than previous years. My only other advice is to go high at that time of year and stay as close to the lifts / slopes as you possibly can.

PM me if you want specific ideas.

After all it is free

Have to be honest it didn’t even occur to me that tuition available through a tour operator might not be in English!

I suppose I’d prefer the more traditional resorts but as I’ve chosen early in the season and Christmas week I may have to comprise if the cost is too high.

You’ve all given me plenty of options to look into thanks

In terms of snow reliability some resorts are better than others. As mentioned you can go for a high resort but then you may have problems with wind/cold/lack of tress etc. but similarly a low resort may not have enough snow early season.

The dolomites area for example is known for great artificial snow cannon technology so as long as the temps are low you're guarenteed snow. This region is also very scenic, has a number of small resorts as well as the larger ones, cheap prices for accommodation and food. You wont always find english speakers though.

Also as someone mentioned some areas offer beginner passes that would save you unnecessarily buying a full pass e.g. Meribel or free beginner lifts like in Kitzbuhel or Alpe d'Huez. However I'd still suggest avoiding all big name resorts (most that have been mentioned above). You only need about 20km of piste to enjoy a first week of skiing.

During my recent visits to Austria my personal favourites for beginners would be Erhwald, Seefeld, Mayrhofen Ahorn (but you'd need to take the main lift up and down), Lienz Zettersfeld, and Mutters. Accommodation could probably be found quite cheaply near all of these but slope-side access probably not and the lift pass prices may be a little expensive still. The other scam to try to avoid is where ski lessons require a non-beginner pass for part or all of the week. To me this is a con and could be an advantage of private lessons where you could choose where you ski.

My advice where-ever you choose would be to try to get as many of these as possible:

Less than 40km of pistes covered by pass
Mainly green/blue runs covered by pass
Convenience to the slopes i.e. simple bus trip or very short walk
Some beginner slopes above 1200m in Austria and 1500m in France (for Christmas week)
Potential for skiing tree lined pistes
Free, beginner, or package (check it is a good deal though) ski pass
English speaking instruction
Small beginner groups (max eight) or private instruction
Non-ski options close-by
Nice scenery
Non-self catering i.e. catered chalet or hotel
Magic carpets and/or specialist beginner button/chair lifts
A smaller less well known resort

But do your own investigations, don't rely only on what people say here.

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There is a vanishingly small likelihood of finding a British TO offering packages to a resort where the ski pass covers only 40 kms of skiing.

Can you go any other time than Christas? Mid to late January would be ideal. Cheaper, quieter, more snow, more choice.

You know it makes sense.

pam w, you might be right that the large operators focus on large resorts. But I spent my first couple of ski trips with a small operator that went to lesser-known places and provided its own British instructors. The trips met almost all of sammawby's criteria.

I absolutely stand by my view that a class of 8 is ridiculously large, and I'm gobsmacked to learn that some ski schools believe it's acceptable to allow groups of 10 or 12. The issue is that every time a group of eight beginners starts to move on the hill, one of them will have some sort of problem such as crossed skis, a tangled pole-strap or an awkard fall. While they sort themselves out, everyone else has to wait. And, if like some (most?) European ski schools, classes last for a full week and aren't regrouped every day, by mid-week the ability gap between the best and the worst in the group will be intolerable.

Assuming a five-hour day, you only get 25 minutes undivided attention from an instructor in a group of 12 people - including lift time. That's simply insufficient for rapid progression. Another great things about small groups is that you get to chat to the instructor whenever you catch a lift, and that's an important part of your learning.

You might eventually learn to ski in a large group, and you might have fun; but your progress will be glacial. Given that it costs a fortune to actually be in the mountains, it makes sense to get over the initial learning part as quickly as possible. The total cost of your tuition is actually likely to be lower if you learn in a small group, as you won't need so many lessons; if you also factor in equipment hire and lift passes, it's actually much more expensive to learn in a large group.

I've watched this in practice when my kids were learning to ski. One year they were in a large group and they hardly progressed. Other years they were in classes of 3 or 4 (normal policy in many North American ski schools) and they learned at a phenomenal rate.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Particularly at Christmas you'll save money planning your own trip rather than using a TO especially as you plan to know the travel dates very early. It may restrict your choices of resort as you'll want to fly to near to the resort but this is still easily possible for many large or small resorts. Bergfex gives you an excellent map with the location of the resorts it covers. Select the Bergfex tab next to Satellite for OS maps and then the button with a up and down arrow to go full screen. Personally I think 10 to 12 people is too many so I'd definitely look at private lessons in this case.

Absolutely agree with the above points about group sizes.

A snowHead

Quality of the instruction is far more important than group v. private lessons, IMO (and IME). See this thread, for example.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The tuition when I've changed my skiing the most has been in groups of 10. The key factors for this were, in order of importance: quality of the instructor; skiers in the group having a uniformly positive attitude to learning, supporting each other and having fun; and skiers in the group being close enough in ability level comfortably to ski the same terrain. I've also had some great private lessons, but these have been to address one or two issues rather than improve my skiing as a whole (which is is very difficult in a private lesson or two lasting typically a couple of hours each).

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pam w, it costs £20-40 per hour to be on the slopes when all costs are factored in. If you go to the mountains to ski rather than for the ambience, every second counts. That's why I say it's better to learn quickly in a small group. Quality, not quantity: the total bill is unchanged.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

It may be true that a larger group with a top instructor is better than a smaller group with a less good instructor. However all things equal a smaller group is what you want surely. I also find that in skiing that there is sometimes IMO the incorrect view that a great instructor has to be a great skier. I'm no expert skier but experience elsewhere says that an average skier could be a great instructor and a great skier could be a very average instructor. This seems especially true for those teaching beginners. I also think it is fair to say that a ski school will make more from large group lessons than from private or smaller group lessons. If it were me learning again I wouldn't go for a group over 8 people and I would strongly consider private lessons. Certainly some tuition of non-beginners in groups ends up being a following exercise rather than teaching exercise. Not always but it happens far more than it should. How does one know the quality of the teaching (specific instructor) until it starts and even then it may depend on the views of the individual therefore consider the things you can influence over those you can't. Although also maybe get some reviews of the ski school as a whole if you can.

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