 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, the last few times I've been skiing I've found my quads burning really bad with lactic acid, not so much on average slopes but a lot on steep reds & blacks with moguls.
I don't know if this is down to not being so fit or weak leg muscles. I've started running twice a week doing some lunges, & squats in the gym, leg extensions to. I've got most of the first timers aches out of the way but even though my legs aren't aching from the weights, if i hold myself into a squatted position like i would be skiing I can feel my upper legs starting to burn again. Can anyone suggest anything to try also do I need to be building the muscle with weights more to prevent this, or more endurance training for longer periods ie: cycling, running & holding myself into the squat postition with back to a wall?
Any advice will be appreciated as I don't want to ruin my next holiday being unfit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ddan1275, burning thighs when you ski on steep terrain is almost certainly due to leaning back rather than a lack of strength or fitness. Certainly won't do any harm to improve your fitness, but the best way to address this problem is by fixing your fore/aft balance on your skis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you have straight leg syndrome, from tiredness causing burning cramp, do some overflexed turns with an exagerated pole plant and bounce up and down 3 or 4 is usually enough. Old ESF trick and really works.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ddan1275, spinning classes and drink loads of water
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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thanks guys. & yes Rob one of my bad habits is leaning back at times I've been told, didnt realise that would do that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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As rob@rar suggests, burning thighs are usually a symptom of something else other than fitness. It may well be your fore/aft balance, but an hour or two with an experienced instructor should identify and solve the root cause, so continue with the fitness training and book a session for your first day in resort.
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I used to have this problem. Get your weight forward. The biggest change for me was pushing my hands forward - just exaggerating my position a bit, and consciously putting my shins into the front of the boots.
You are leaning back on steeper and more difficult runs, but actually the way to get down them is to lean forward. Counterintuitive, but you need to get your edges working, and you will only do that by getting forward.
If you get your weight properly forward and still get lots of burning thighs, the quickest way I found was exercise bike - half an hour a day of cycling does wonders for thigh strength.
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Thanks for the advice guys appreciated, I'm going to keep on with the fitness just a few more times a week. I'm going out with someone who did a little instructing while spending a few seasons away. The advice they gave me was the same as what you are saying. Weight forward, arms forward & nice and wide (sort of like a large bus steering wheel) that should help get my body into the position i need it to be in.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I also suffer from lack thigh strength and burning and cramp even when on my mountain bike because of a medical condition. I have found pumpkin seeds to be good as they are full of magnesium which is crucial for your muscles. I also take high five drink supplement and drink plenty of fluid, I also wear compression tights these all seems to work for me
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| quinton wrote: |
| As rob@rar suggests, burning thighs are usually a symptom of something else other than fitness. It may well be your fore/aft balance, but an hour or two with an experienced instructor should identify and solve the root cause, so continue with the fitness training and book a session for your first day in resort. |
but this isnt always the case, lets say one skis with great form but does no leg strenghting cardio work and goes on a ski holiday, has the ablity to carve up the mountain but the legs are going to fail, dont get me wrong i dont have perfect technique but i dont sit in the back seat either and my legs burn after ripping, just look at how ski racers are at the bottom of the hill
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Huckacliff duckabranch wrote: |
| but this isnt always the case, |
Indeed, which is why I said it is almost certainly the case that poor fore/aft balance is likely to the reason than definitely the reason 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Huckacliff duckabranch, surely anyone that skis with great form is going to have enough about them to realise they have to do some exercise before rocking up on a ski holiday?
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You know it makes sense.
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kitenski, surely anyone that rocks up on a ski holiday without any fitness preparation isn't going to be in great form regardless? Lots of us do it, but under normal circumstances anyone with no medical reason and with good technique should be able to ski all day at a reasonable pace.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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kitenski, "SURELY" people don't have children that need ferrying about after work and don't have their own businesses and working long and late hours and can't always find the time or have the energy to get in the weight room or to a spin class and core training plus all the other things essential for ski fitness, and these same people SURELY they've never skied to a high standard before,
Monium, As I said ripping, not reasonable pace, I find a reasonable pace pretty boring unless I'm practicing technique,
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Poster: A snowHead
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Going back to the OP, ddan1275, leave the leg extensions where they are - open chain exercises (ie. feet not connected to the floor/or connected to something that is) are going to be next to useless for skiing fitness.
Spin as mentioned above is good, but also try some interval training, of a 1:1 ratio.. Do 5 minutes at a reasonable pace, where you're not out of breath but couldn't easily hold a conversation, then do 60s all out, 60 at the original pace and repeat 5 times. Go back down to starting pace for another 5. [Then if you're a tank or a masochist, repeat]. That spikes a lot of lactic acid, but also promotes the removal of waste produced by the muscle, and generally will make legs a lot stronger and fitter.
In terms of resistance, squat, squat, and squat some more. Find someone to teach overheads and front squats, most good PT's should show you how. Overheads are probably the most whole body exercise possible, and engages the core far more than traditional core work.
Not always easy to find the time for it though, but an interval session on a normal bike or a spin bike in a gym will only take 20 minutes, start to finish.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Huckacliff duckabranch, I tend to start a ski season after 7-8 months of doing nothing but desk jockeying and eating too much, and never get quad burn early season even trying to ski like I did on the last day of the last season. I do destroy every small muscle in my body and get out of breath way too fast, but quads just don't bear that much relative load, and they're a huge muscle. Quad burn is 99% form.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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joe1890, I really recommend low bar back squats for skiing btw, that was the one season I actually tried to do something useful preseason.
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DaveC, bar held on lower trap? more glute activation, so probably good for skiing in all fairness...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Quite an interesting read, although worth noting as a powerlifter, with the express end product of lifting as much as possible - he would lift with significantly different technique to an "athletic" squat. The diagrams on page 4 show in order: Powerlifting Squat, Athletic Squat and Front Squat. The powerlifting squat differs as it allows a large anterior tilt to the torso. It means less flexible athletes can shift more load, and elite lifters can recruit their back muscles and hamstrings further into the lift. He also mentions that the low back position allows more weight lifted. correct, but by recruiting the back muscles, and putting huge strain on the lumbar spine, deforming and forcing the natural curve the wrong way (flexion). This is potentially very dangerous way of squatting. Don't get me wrong, I'm keen as a bean to smash out 1RM squats, which do make you stronger, just not in the way he's proposing. For a skiier, or indeed anyone squatting for non powerlifting goals, moving the bar further down the back will increase hamstring activation in the squat, but at a detriment to the other muscles. Personally, I'd get them squatting with trap position, then do RDLs, nordic curls or halted deadlifts for hamstrings. The hamstrings very rarely work concentrically in normal movement, including skiing. They work eccentrically and isometrically to control the knee, and especially the ACL by negating anterior translation of the tibia.
Also, the point where he says the low bar back squat is the only exercise you can promote hip drive is wrong. First of all, hip drive is not as athletically useful as the triple extension of the hip knee and ankle. Whilst I'll admit the ankle extension is useless in skiing as we're locked in a boot, hip and knee extension, with a subsequent training effect for the posterior chain musculature. But the main point is that there are range of exercises for triple extension. Deadlifts, and the various derivatives, ALL squatting (not just back) promotes it with different emphasis on particular muscle groups, and olympic lifting (clean and jerk, snatch). Deadlifts done properly (something rarely seen unless coached) also do have the hips very low. OLY also coach the ability to produce force and power at split second timings, essential to.. well everything in an athletic capacity.
Whilst OLY lifts are technically hard to master and not something I'd give a recreational or time pressed athlete, there are many sub-divisions of the lifts that would train not only strength, power and a certain amount of hypertrophy. Hang high pulls, first pull lifts (halted deadlifts), drop unders.... the list is near enough endless. He also seems to slate OLY lifters, some of the most powerful and well-rounded athletes in the world. Every OLY I've trained or trained with all deadlift heavy, and I'll convince them to do so if they don't. A strong deadlift allows them to easier overcome the inertia of the bar from the floor, allowing a stronger first pull, ergo more height on the bar, ergo a higher second pull, more time to get underneath the bar and eventually a heavier lift by a stronger athlete.
Sorry, bit of an essay there. Also, not saying my way is the only way to do it, just throwing in my 2 cents worth. Although again, it's worth saying that I've read several textbooks on weightlifting and S&C, and come across different opinions in every single one! For everyone to take as much or as little advice from if they want..
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Yeah, I just linked that because it was what started me on weight training - though I think tunnel visioning on LBBS as simply a way to move weight forgets what being able to move that weight implies. It seemed the best way to train posterior chain, explosiveness and general core without faffing around doing isolation stuff. HBBS and front squats don't have many pros in a purely skiing aspect to me.
I actually did matey above's starting strength program (3x5 squat/press/1x5 dead, squat/bench/pull ups alternating, 1 on 1 off) for a few months, and really enjoyed it. Had no hope of continuing through winter and didnt find the motivation again, though when I actually have free time I'd like to do it again. I'd definitely recommend that + some form of flexibility work for someone training for ISIA type stuff. You definitely know much more than me on the exercise front though.
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But anyway, yeah, massive thread drift aside, if your quads burn, get a lesson. Being more efficient is the easiest way to ski all day, the higher your strength and cardio fitness the longer you can either a) compensate for bad technique or b) ski at a level that pushes your fitness
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yeah, slight thread drift!
I'll go with what Dave said in the second post, lesson time!
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