I do suspect the Ski instructor is saying Brits are turning up to ski in Söll and kitted out with skis as if they were going to ski Cham, St Anton or Verbier. Having said that, while skiing 40cm fresh powder in Saalbach 3rd week Jan 2012, anything steep was shut and the wider/softer skis provided much more float. The guide (staatliche geprüft skilehrer) was on 190 Völkl Gotamas but even he was sinking. The Söll ski instructor would have probably sank.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Pfft, I'm boggling that anyone thinks that 90mm waist skis are fat. I doubt I'd ski on anything under 100mm these days.
I was waiting for someone to post that, didnt take long
Horse for courses isn't it? Lots of people ski mainly on-piste, 90mm is fat for that kind of work.
But I'd be interested in your view - why do you think all the guides I've skied with recently have been on 80-90mm?
Personally, I reckon its because they think it gives them the best compromise on the kind of off-piste terrain they ski ....
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jedster, I'm waving my wang proudly.
In answer to your question I'm going to go with; that's what they want to ski. At the end of the day it's not what you've got it's what you do with it.
Is there any relationship between who needs fat skis to enjoy powder and who eats the most pies ? Just askin'
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I really don't understand what problem people have with fat skis. I had fun skiing off piste on 207 GS skis for years. Then watched a video with Shane McConkey, who I do believe used to be a relatively decent skier on just about any ski, and thought it might be fun to try something wider. Tried it and discovered that, yes indeed, it was fun.
Given that I am not making money out of this I think having fun is about the only thing that matters. Maybe I got that wrong and it's all about something else though?
After all it is free
After all it is free
jedster wrote:
When I come to think of it, the four guides I have skied with in the last 4 years have all been on something 80-90mm wide. In my experience, guides seem to be very pragmatic rather than fashion conscious about their choice of gear and I suspect there is some useful information in that.
Part of the pragmatism and the fact that they are actually working is that they prepare for the worst conditions rather than maximum fun so I can see why they aren't on 120mm fun shapes.
Same for instructors - they ski pistes most of the time so it would be insane if they tried to have a general teaching ski that was above say 80mm.
Doesn't mean that the world is polar - you either have gear as a crutch or you have a dedication to learning better technique, you can maximise the the latter through the former and even skiing on the wrong gear can be improving.
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Steilhang, its called aiming for an illusion of superiority.
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jedster, Yep, probaby right and probably in line with what most folk honestly think on here. I acquired mantras ov the summer and apart from a tiny bit of racing, haven't used anything else. My much loved SLs haven't eve had an outing.
Mind you, it has been that sort of season.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
under a new name wrote:
I acquired mantras ov the summer and apart from a tiny bit of racing, haven't used anything else. My much loved SLs haven't eve had an outing.
under a new name, never thought I'd hear you say something like that. I'm obviously out of the loop.
At some point we've got to ski together.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kitenski wrote:
rosco5 wrote:
had to sit in the back seat a stupid amount to avoid going head over heals. Critique away!
Not watched the video, but sitting in the back seat isn't the way to ski powder, stay nice and centered over the ski and your legs will last an awful lot longer and you'll be in alot more control!
Understood it isn't but if you watch the video you'll probably get a decent understanding of why I was. Most slopes were only 15-30 degrees only a couple in the powder would of had a greater incline that that. My points being that to not completely sink and fully slow myself i had to have the tips not digging right under otherwise I would have ground to a halt hence the need to sit back and raise them above. 99% of the time your right about not sitting in the back seat but these conditions and the ski I was on meant I had to make an exception!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Walter-Spitty wrote:
fatbob wrote:
rosco5, nice punter video -all the joey gopros out there should watch and learn about a sharp edit.
Amen to that.
Cheers gents!
Only my first go at editing and all so I guess it came out pretty decent. Definatly hoping to get some better shots and big off pistes next time!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Haggis_Trap wrote:
So 110% it is the skier, not the tools, that are most important ?
For most skiers that's just not true. No doubt if you can carve 50mm 220s in 6' of deep powder you're an amazing skier; but I bet you can't do it on 2 bamboo canes, so to suggest that the tools are irrelevant is just plain silly. Anyway, most of us won't ever reach that standard. And even though you presumably can ski on those bamboo canes, you'd probably do it better on something more suitable...
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Depends what you consider fat really doesnt it?
I skied a whole season on InBigs (90mm) and they ruled: off, on and even had plenty of runs through the park; even though I had proper park skis.
In terms of the OP, whilst you can ski any terrain on any ski, its about the fun factor isnt it. Powder on thin skis is ok but not as fun, running the park on a stiff set of monsters isnt as easy or fun. Takes yer choice... well if you have the money.
These days I am a 5 or 10 ski days a year man, so I take my old karma's for cruising and then rent the latest phatties if there is a dump.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rosco5, +1. Love the backflip! Nice touch
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
horizon wrote:
under a new name wrote:
I acquired mantras ov the summer and apart from a tiny bit of racing, haven't used anything else. My much loved SLs haven't eve had an outing.
under a new name, never thought I'd hear you say something like that.
Old age? Wisdom?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
horizon, Be delighted!
fatbob, Dunno really. We knew we "needed" something that would handle variable, and they were an excellent price (we'd also tried previously).
Quite delighted really. A bit "dull" until you push them, but no speed limit found. Just haven't so far tried them in bottomless powder, but awesome elsewhere.
skiing serios deep stuff with slalom narrow skis is more physically-technically demanding.
fitness.. that`s all. for X-mas time skier it`s not possible
no matter brits or germans (they also love fatties)
Skiing deep stuff and untouched is relatively easy. It's the inbetween chopped crud and crust where fat skis really shine.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
as can rememeber it took about 3 months on slalom skis to ski offpiste nice. was on skis almost every day for whole day.
After all it is free
After all it is free
clarky999 wrote:
Skiing deep stuff and untouched is relatively easy. It's the inbetween chopped crud and crust where fat skis really shine.
That's right. I was skiing some very nice snow in Japan a few weeks ago and there were some days that I was thinking that I might have preferred to be on narrower skis (I was on 110mm Volkls) in order to have less float as it was more fun to be in the snow than on the snow. Does more float equal fewer face shots when you're skiing great powder snow?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rob@rar wrote:
clarky999 wrote:
Skiing deep stuff and untouched is relatively easy. It's the inbetween chopped crud and crust where fat skis really shine.
That's right. I was skiing some very nice snow in Japan a few weeks ago and there were some days that I was thinking that I might have preferred to be on narrower skis (I was on 110mm Volkls) in order to have less float as it was more fun to be in the snow than on the snow. Does more float equal fewer face shots when you're skiing great powder snow?
Possibly, although I think it depends how you ski it. Probably for old school little swings (I find it hard to do anything else on narrow skis in the deep) you get less on fat skis, but then you can go faster and smear a nice big McConkey style turn for a different sort of faceshot... I do find the surfy feeling from fat skis soooo much more fun than narrow ones, and even on my 118mm's I'm not sitting right on top of the snow - for me the main benefit is I can drive the tip as hard as I want without having to worry about it diving.
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I've skied SL skis in powder on a number of occasions and yes, it is possible but it's just more fun on wider skis rather than hooky skis that only have 'dive dive dive' on their mind. I could also ski groomers on 210 straight skis but that doesn't be as fun as modern 165 SL skis.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Honestly, how many days on average per week is a skier likely to be able to ski off piste in Söll of all places? Maybe 1 or 2 out of 6 days skiing per year? Is it really fun skiing 110mm + waisted skis on piste for the other 4 to 5 days? Can you do short turns on such a wide ski (anybody got any such clips) Does it do much for your technique or are you just skarving around for most of the time? Wouldn't many be better getting a narrower ski, improving technique and renting the right tool for the job depending on the conditions?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DB wrote:
Honestly, how many days on average per week is a skier likely to be able to ski off piste in Söll of all places? Maybe 1 or 2 out of 6 days skiing per year? Is it really fun skiing 110mm + waisted skis on piste for the other 4 to 5 days? Can you do short turns on such a wide ski (anybody got any such clips) Does it do much for your technique or are you just skarving around for most of the time? Wouldn't many be better getting a narrower ski, improving technique and renting the right tool for the job depending on the conditions?
We have a winner.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
DB, Not sure about Soll but I've been in Schladming all season and since the first snows in mid-Dec pretty much powder to be had most days. Yesterday was the first day in some time where I didn't ski some powder, big slushy bumps instead - which isn't too bad. So this season I've been on my 90mm (my fats) 90% of days, taken my 65mm SLs out 3 or 4 times, the GS skis are gather dust and need a run out soon.
How about turning the argument around. Too many locals on wannabe thin race skis tearing around the piste out of control. Put them on fatter skis and they'd slow down a bit and hopefully would still have no desire to venture off the piste. If I had to choose one ski then a 90mm would seem a good choice, still good enough on piste and plenty of fun off, if conditions are hard pack on piste for a period then some skinnier skis would be useful.
I've also skied SLs in powder in the past and as others have said it's doable, just takes more physical effort and less user friendly.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Posted this on another thread but applies here as well I think.
Here's my 2 yen worth
For English substitute Australian, Scandanavian etc etc
Mike Pow wrote:
I'm currently on Movement Jam skis as DB pointed out. This was due to the fact that I was skiing Europe last winter - Switzerland, Italy, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, Norway, Wales - where the powder is more wind and sun affected than Hokkaido and heavier. And I am using them as my quiver of one resort and touring ski.
They are 136-85-117 in a 173 cm length
Whilst they have a big shovel they have no rocker, and with the combination of my height and weight - 188cm and 95 kg - and skiing fairly quick all over the mountain getting deep and getting face shots is not an issue.
When I first came to Hokkaido I was on 170cm Salomon slalom skis with dimensions of 125-65-114 and had no problem skiing the powder and was consistently deeper than I am now.
If I could find a ski with a smilar profile that's sold flat so I can mount my Dynafit bindings then I would change in a heartbeat.
If you're prepared to ski at the speeds of the pros who promote the longer, fatter skis then you'll have no trouble getting deep and getting face shot after face shot.
But if not, then the laws of physics will ensure you'll float above the goodness in all but the lightest powder. Ask any snowboarder.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I see in this thread there is a lot of "I prefer this, I prefer that".
So 3 points
A) the correct tool for the job. Piste skis for on piste, freeride/offpiste skis for off and any thing in between go for an all mountain ski that is biased towards what you do more off.
B) lessons or learning is important for all
C) personal choice and this overrides A and B. Ride what puts the biggest grin on your face. It's a fun sport after all. If ripping GS turns on piste gets you hot, buy or rent piste skis, if off piste is your thing buy or rent freeride skis best suited to what you love.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dot. wrote:
I see in this thread there is a lot of "I prefer this, I prefer that".
So 3 points
A) the correct tool for the job. Piste skis for on piste, freeride/offpiste skis for off and any thing in between go for an all mountain ski that is biased towards what you do more off.
B) lessons or learning is important for all
C) personal choice and this overrides A and B. Ride what puts the biggest grin on your face. It's a fun sport after all. If ripping GS turns on piste gets you hot, buy or rent piste skis, if off piste is your thing buy or rent freeride skis best suited to what you love.
D) Dot. identifies a new market segment - "The Instructor" for the Austrian piste market who simply must get their "nice turns".
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dot., agreed.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
waynos,
Söll doesn't have the same amount of offpiste that Schladming has (as far as I could see from my visits to both ski resorts). I'm on 87mm waisted skis for the Powder but that isn't fat anymore. It's the 110mm+ skis on Söll pistes that I don't think are doing anybody much favours. Being able to do short turns on the piste also helps when you go off piste but how do you practise short turns on piste with very long / wide planks? Yes the untalented on Race skis can be a problem too but as far as I see it, it boils down to the same as intermediate skiers getting by in the powder on fat skis i.e the equipment being much higher rated than the skiers talent.
Of course the ski instructors will be pushing their service/product as will the ski suppliers/manufacturers. For intermediates , fat skis might put grins on your face in the short term, but improving technique too will keep you smiling.
DB, That depends on the WD Preacher 112mm under foot but has a lot of side cut and conventional camber will do very short turn but a full rocker won't
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
DB,
Quote:
Is it really fun skiing 110mm + waisted skis on piste for the other 4 to 5 days? Can you do short turns on such a wide ski (anybody got any such clips)
Have not got any clips yet, but will have when I get back from the 3v's end of March, my lad is skiing on 125 under foot this season as his everyday ski, on piste as well. I am taking about 15 pairs of skis with me (all fat) so hopefuly will get some good video done with my new Contour of me and him, if I can keep up with him that is
DB, That depends on the WD Preacher 112mm under foot but has a lot of side cut and conventional camber will do very short turn but a full rocker won't
We've been here before I think in equipment but rocker isn't just one thing. Continuing the WDF luv-in, for example, my Redeemers * are actually pretty nimble on (soft surface) piste and in trees etc which is a feature of both short effective edge and the 5 point sidecut. You just have to sack up and get them over to ski properly on piste and avoid refrozen hardpack (or acquire better skills ).
I think there is some merit in the more progressive ski schools doing proper tuition programmes in skiing rocker skis as those expecting them to be identical to conventional could benefit from some guided discovery in "mucking about". It's got to be better than people who've not really got a sense of their own ability or enough assessment of "ski feel" getting flogged them by the shop guy then just skidding about aimlessly without ever exploiting the technology.I like to think by contrast I skid about with a purpose
* They are awesome^
^ Dot. cheque please to usual address
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
fatbob wrote:
You just have to sack up and get them over to ski properly on piste and avoid refrozen hardpack (or acquire better skills ).
excellent for the lazyarse euro ski bum who doesn't want to get out of bed until the afternoon
After all it is free
After all it is free
davidof, actually grippy corduroy isn't bad it's just the slide for life hardpack or polish you really have to work to keep edged on (but probably not any more than a snowboard). It's why I prefer something a little bit more trad for some traditional Euro variable conditions. Corn season though they're definitely good to go.
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fatbob wrote:
davidof, actually grippy corduroy isn't bad
grippy corduroy, but you have to hit the slopes before 10am to find it !
What Europe needs is better snow.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Glen Charman wrote:
DB, That depends on the WD Preacher 112mm under foot but has a lot of side cut and conventional camber will do very short turn but a full rocker won't
I'm skiing on 180cm long 102mm waisted BD Verdicts from 2009/2010 so it's a conventional camber ski, no rocker and a pretty normal sidecut. No problem at all carving on pistes or blatting through deep snow. I pretty much use them for everything from ski mountaineering/touring through lift served freeriding to weeknight piste bashing at the local ski area.
There is a lot of variation in what a 'fat' ski really is.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
never thought I'd hear you say something like that. I'm obviously out of the loop.
).
