davidof, watch the vid I posted... all makes sense then
The guy in blue is ripping the pow pretty much like he would ski anywhere - although he has a big rucksack which is not helping. The bloke in red... well just the kind of punter who needs fat skis, or lessons. Far too much upper body movement.
Didier Defaggot's problem is that he doesn't have the technique for that line. I bet one of the freeriders could have charged his skis straight down the face if they'd bothered.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Colin B wrote:
It was Defago and they certainly weren't fat skis!
Ok, just for comparison, I'd like to see any of the top FWT guys (who didn't have a previous WC pedigree) ski an alpine race - it would be interesting to compare.
Or see Defago on more "appropriate" equipment after 10 runs...Ooops hadn't got to the Mancuso segment. I think that makes my point.
I see loads of people on needlessly wide skis - and if you're a 1-2 week average holiday skier it's relatively daft to own such things.
But we all know I am something of a humbug...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Interesting thread. Am siting in my kitchen with Jeremy Nobis reading this and smiling. We both agree that too many people get hung up on girth. It's about what makes you smile.
Ok, just for comparison, I'd like to see any of the top FWT guys (who didn't have a previous WC pedigree) ski an alpine race - it would be interesting to compare.
On fat skis
Quote:
Or see Defago on more "appropriate" equipment after 10 runs...
He skied the bottom part fine but the upper part he looked like a ski tourer !
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I do wonder how many Brits buy big wide skis and then end up skiing on the piste most of the time with the occasional foray into the bits on the side of the piste. I can't see it doing much good for their skiing technique. I'd imagine in many cases the money would have been better spent on lessons than equipment. Suppose it's cooler at Apres Ski to talk about being a gnarly offpiste skier rather than "I had a ski lesson today". A lot to be said for mastering a skill rather than buying a crutch. People can ski whatever makes them happy but I'd guess in the long run many would be happier to be able to ski all tyres of terrain on one pair of skis, especially with the cost of ski carriage these days.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 1-03-12 9:57; edited 1 time in total
I notice many people refer to wider skis at a Crutch. Doe's that mean on piste a 66mm underfoot ski is a crutch?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Dot.,
Quote:
It's about what makes you smile.
Took the words out of my mouth, for me, the wrong side of 50, its all about fun and the thrill of skiing, and also wider skis are not all about the width its got a huge amount to do with the sidecut and flex of the ski thats makes it so much fun.
When I started skiing in 1978 my first skis were 170 and fat underfoot
After all it is free
After all it is free
Ski in a few places over a few seasons and you see it all, or almost all:
- instructors skiing circles around you offpiste, on 70-mm waisted skis
- guides and instructors ripping the pow on 115mm rocker skis
- guides effortlessly gliding on some lighter-than-air-and-about-as-toughly-built TRABs or Dynafits
- "punters" shredding the gnar on fat skis
- other punters awkwardly muscling their way down easy offpiste terrain on some fatties
- yet other punters sideslipping the pistes on their wide skis (I include myself here - I don't own anything below 93mm waist and I can't be bothered to rent piste skis on the family holiday
- ...maybe not so many holiday skiers attempting the offpiste on anything below 80-90mm anymore...
The only important thing is most of them have a huge smile on their face.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Dot. wrote:
I notice many people refer to wider skis at a Crutch. Doe's that mean on piste a 66mm underfoot ski is a crutch?
As I see it - they are the right tools for the job. If they were skiing offpiste most of the time a wider ski would be the correct tool.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
DB wrote:
Dot. wrote:
I notice many people refer to wider skis at a Crutch. Doe's that mean on piste a 66mm underfoot ski is a crutch?
As I see it - they are the right tools for the job. If they were skiing offpiste most of the time a wider ski would be the correct tool.
Agree, like a wider ski it the correct tool for the job off piste rather than a crutch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
davidof wrote:
He skied the bottom part fine but the upper part he looked like a ski tourer !
Hey ! I resemble that comment
Would like to see the others ski on the same type of skis as him though.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Dot. wrote:
DB wrote:
Dot. wrote:
I notice many people refer to wider skis at a Crutch. Doe's that mean on piste a 66mm underfoot ski is a crutch?
As I see it - they are the right tools for the job. If they were skiing offpiste most of the time a wider ski would be the correct tool.
Agree, like a wider ski it the correct tool for the job off piste rather than a crutch.
Yes for most offpiste skiers it's the right tool and people can ski what they want anyway. For those who hardly ski offpiste and couldn't remain upright for more than a couple of turns without wide skis they are a crutch. Trying powder for the first time I struggled like hell on a pair of 74mm wide skis but then grabbed a pair of pocket rockets and got some offpiste instruction. If I had just stuck with the pocket rockets without instruction I doubt I would be having as much fun as I am these days skiing circa 90mm wide skis.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
DB wrote:
davidof wrote:
He skied the bottom part fine but the upper part he looked like a ski tourer !
Hey ! I resemble that comment
Would like to see the others ski on the same type of skis as him though.
Did you see what the skis were, some kind of orange Volkl thingies?
I always remember someone asking Andrew McLean why he didn't take more films when ski touring and replied something like "seeing ski tourers billy goating their way down steep pitches is not videogenic"
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
kooky wrote:
clarky999, we skied a few runs with wife of the the lift operator in Zauchensee, she must have been at least 65, and she was shredding the powder on a pair of Bent Chetlers, no joke, Admin and Timberwolf were with me so can confirm this, that lady put the G in GNAR
and she was pretty hot
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
davidof wrote:
Did you see what the skis were, some kind of orange Volkl thingies?
They have FIS WC Rossignol on them so look like proper race skis to me. I'm unsure how much of the "sub-optimal performance" is down to having race skis and how much is down to his lower level of experience in steep offpiste skiing under variable conditions.
davidof wrote:
I always remember someone asking Andrew McLean why he didn't take more films when ski touring and replied something like "seeing ski tourers billy goating their way down steep pitches is not videogenic"
Yes the ski scenes in Mt St Elias hardly got the juices flowing, but hey if we wanted it easy we would have a helicopter taxi us about and only use big skis like a Ski Pro. Billy goats have fun too
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Timberwolf, In a skiing sense?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Colin B, errrrrrr.....yes, that's right...exactly that.......in no other way......that's what i meant.....that right there.....
awwww, hell, who am I trying to kid
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
If people spent more time on their technique and less on looking the part there skiing would be more fun.
Fattes13, or would it. Live and let live I reckon.
I notice many people refer to wider skis at a Crutch. Doe's that mean on piste a 66mm underfoot ski is a crutch?
Yeah what's with all these metal edges and using two poles! Nowt wrong with a nothing but a bit of birch under a mans feet and a big stick to help you balance and clout the undeserving with. In my day we skied uphill both ways!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Dot. wrote:
Am siting in my kitchen with Jeremy Nobis reading this and smiling.
CLANG......................'scuse me, did someone drop this name??
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB, Definitely not
After all it is free
After all it is free
under a new name wrote:
Colin B wrote:
It was Defago and they certainly weren't fat skis!
Ok, just for comparison, I'd like to see any of the top FWT guys (who didn't have a previous WC pedigree) ski an alpine race - it would be interesting to compare.
Or see Defago on more "appropriate" equipment after 10 runs...Ooops hadn't got to the Mancuso segment. I think that makes my point.
That's my point... Most of them would be (relatively) terrible in a race (although lots do seem to come from a race background), Defago would have done much better on suitable skis.
Hence stupid instructors still skiing like it's the '80s and everyone wants to europonce around don't help anyone!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Look it's not a sensible comparison - take the world's top WC skiers and they represent the tiniest top percentile of skiing talent, conditioning etc. & guess what many will have grown up freeskiing the mountain. I'd suspect Mancuso adapted to FWT really easily because she grew up skiing Squaw & (I'm guessing) hanging around with people like Rahlves, McConkey, the Gaffneys etc as well as being coached by heaps of former Olympians like Tamara McKinney. Thus her schooling was on a billygoating mountain.
FWT athletes will mostly have a solid racing background somewhere down the line but others of course wouldn't be immediately competititive in the gates because its a different discipline requiring precision and ingrained habits from thousands of training runs.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Anyone who is calling Defago out from comfort of their PC has clearly never been up Bec De Rosses (fall and you die terrain).
He skied a chopped-up 55 degree face very well, and most importantly safely. End of discussion.
For sure - wide skis are awesome, and make off piste more accessible.
These days any 'back seat chalet girl / brit' can ski powder and think they are pretty cool
However can they also ski moguls, breakable crust or ice all over the mountain what ever the conditions ?
110% it is the skier, not the tools, that is the most important factor.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 1-03-12 12:45; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:
Anyone who is calling Defago out from comfort of their PC has clearly never been up Bec De Rosses (fall and you die terrain).
He skied it well <end>.
Not what I meant...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Not sure I'd want to face a steep, narrow couloir on Whitedots. Fine for big, open slopes, I imagine.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Haggis_Trap wrote:
For sure - wide skis are awesome, and make off piste more accessible.
These days any 'back seat chalet girl / brit' can ski powder and think they are pretty cool
110% it is the skier, not the tools, that is the most important factor.
Sounds to me like its 50% tools, 50% skier then? So far as my own powder skiing is concerned, I'd say it's 90% tools, 10% skier... "go and get some lessons then" I hear you say. Well, yes, quite.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Haggis_Trap wrote:
Anyone who is calling Defago out from comfort of their PC has clearly never been up Bec De Rosses (fall and you die terrain).
He skied a chopped-up 55 degree face very well, and most importantly safely. End of discussion.
For sure - wide skis are awesome, and make off piste more accessible.
These days any 'back seat chalet girl / brit' can ski powder and think they are pretty cool
However can they also ski moguls, breakable crust or ice all over the mountain what ever the conditions ?
110% it is the skier, not the tools, that is the most important factor.
Piste To Powder in St Anton ask if you have 90+mm waisted skis before booking a lesson, and pretty much ask you to hire skis if you haven't. Presumably they feel you'll learn more if you're not wallowing and falling over every 2 minutes on GS skis.
I'd rather take a lesson with them than a xenophobic fogey from Söll...
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DidierCouch,
Someone once rang up P2P and asked if snowblades would be OK.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The marketing of ski equipment & clothing in the uk is absolutely chronic. Literally half of the magazine falline skiing is a gear guide and if you actually believe the marketing then you need new skis every season just to keep up. Buying new skis to replace skis that have only been used for a few weeks is simply crazy.
But at the end of the day its all about having fun and it really doesn't matter what you are riding or the apparel you wear. Honestly I am sure that I could have a great day skiing on snowblades!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Bec des Rosses on Heart Carvers. I bet that wouldn't be fun, even for Jeremy.
http://adrianwaj.com/
DB, I believe Haggis Trap has, although I don't think he took Kaj's line
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Arno wrote:
DB, I believe Haggis Trap has, although I don't think he took Kaj's line
Too easy a line ?
To be honest if I skied Bec des Rosses it wouldn't matter what I had on my feet (Whitedots, heartcarvers, snowblades etc). I mean, it's not as if I would survive it.
I'd rather take a lesson with them than a xenophobic fogey from Söll...
Yes you probably wouldn't enjoy a lesson with some guy who was secretly taking the wee wee out of you with his mates.
Obviously there is no point taking people on powder lessons when they can't even make turns. It may be better going back to the pistes and revising technique and balance etc. But then given your average punter only has a week's ski holiday a year, being pragmatic, and given the market for off-piste adventure, you may assume the client will never ski at a high level and it is better to ski on 90mm+ skis and at least have some enjoyment and sense of achievement out of the lesson. Nothing worse than instructors with unrealistic goals. Wide skis may also be a great learner tools (like trainer wheels on a bike) and you may find the client is able to then ski powder on narrower skis, something more "all mountain".
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 1-03-12 14:45; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB wrote:
Arno wrote:
DB, I believe Haggis Trap has, although I don't think he took Kaj's line
Too easy a line ?
To be honest if I skied Bec des Rosses it wouldn't matter what I had on my feet (Whitedots, heartcarvers, snowblades etc). I mean, it's not as if I would survive it.
The main line is rated 5.1/E3 and has a 400m of D-
After all it is free
After all it is free
fatbob wrote:
rosco5, nice punter video -all the joey gopros out there should watch and learn about a sharp edit.
Amen to that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Skied Bec in 2008 - there was some side slipping involved at the top Trust me, DeFago skied a 'fall and die' situation very well. Even if he didnt rip it open in spectacular fashion like Kaj might have done (in good snow).
Also... the video of Julio Mancuso is off the womens startline on the shoulder. Very different, lower consequence line.
So getting back on topic.... These days any punter can ski powder on fat skis - it actually pretty easy and apart from groomed piste the most consistent surface.
The real 'art of skiing' is handling real variable all mountain conditions with skill (moguls, ice, crusty mank, hardpack, wind blown powder etc).
So 110% it is the skier, not the tools, that are most important ? And that is why I kind of agree with the old Austrian boy.
Even if modern gear does certainly make it easier and more accessible.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 1-03-12 20:14; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Going back to the original post, I think that while the instructor had a point (probably a good number of skiers on skis which are suboptimally wide given the mix of skiing that they do) he was being a bit silly. I'd say that anyone buying a single pair of skis who really enjoys skiing off-piste would be best going for something 80-100mm underfoot. These will probably be wider than is really optimal for a lot of their skiing but that won't matter much and in the conditions which bring most joy (!) will enhance the experience.
I learned to ski powder on 200cm slalom skis (through practice and watching better skiers, not lessons). That was unforgiving and you needed to pick up a fair amount of technique to stay upright which has stood me in good stead but there is no way I'd advocate doing it the hard way now!
I have two pairs of skis:
stockli stormriders (75mm), getting on a bit
Line Prophet (100mm)
I much prefer the stocklis on piste. Even though the radius is pretty similar between the two, I can carve tighter turns on harder snow with the stocklis. They are quicker edge to edge, grip better, feel more stable. I'm no racer but it feels like you could race GS on them.
The prophets are better in most off-piste conditions but only a lot better when it gets deep, heavy or mashed-up. In light, boot-depth powder the stocklis are at least as good.
The result is that if I expect to be skiing mainly off-piste then I'm on the prophets. If I'm skiing with the kids and only sneaking the occasional bit of off-piste then I'm on the stocklis. If I only had one pair of skis I'd ... probably compromise with something like Stormrider VXLs or Volkl Mantras. But that's me. If I only skiied for myself rather than with the family I'd be off-piste nearly all the time and would go fatter. When I come to think of it, the four guides I have skied with in the last 4 years have all been on something 80-90mm wide. In my experience, guides seem to be very pragmatic rather than fashion conscious about their choice of gear and I suspect there is some useful information in that.
Obviously people can ski on whatever they want to but it would be a shame if people were not on the best ski for them due to scorn from ski instructors or fashion
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Definitely not 