 Poster: A snowHead
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Not sure if this is a technique question or an equipment problem so thought I’d start here as lots of the regulars seem to have more than a passing interest in kit as well!
I have a pair of Salomon X-Wave 8s which were fitted by Profeet King’s Road around 5 years ago (I think) with custom footbeds but no other modification other than taking out the calf spoiler (don’t know why) and they have been skied around 75 days since then. They were super comfortable after the first week and I now clip them up at the top of the first lift and leave them like that all day.
My skiing has improved over the years and I’m becoming more sensitive to what is happening (and what isn’t). I notice that my long carved turns work much better to the right than the left. I am making a conscious effort to get more knee flexion to complete the turns and it all seems very progressive on the L boot. Not so on the R boot on L turns and I find I’m losing the edge and getting a judder. I don’t really find this on short turns straight down the fall line and think this might be because I am loading the boot up really quickly here. Skis were Rossignol Experience 83s at half term if it makes a difference
On the R boot I must have failed to close them properly at some point and the forefoot overlap has sort of crimped against each other (the red softer plastic instead of giving a smooth overlap like the L boot has developed two notches/folds, one on each half, which sort of locate into each other) It’s the only place where I get any discomfort and I’m presuming there is a sort of lump stopping the cuff moving forward smoothly.
Two questions:
1. Is there any chance that I can smooth out the two notches and get the boot closing properly? Heat, clamps, trim a bit away?
2. Might this be the cause of the difference in my left and right performance (or is is a workman blaming his tools)
It’s starting to niggle and feels to be affecting my performance and I’m wondering if it’s time for a boot change just to make sure.
I suppose a bit of video might help give a clue but I don’t have any.
All suggestions (that are physically possible!) gratefully received.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are your skis razor sharp?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not sure about razor sharp but they are the best end of the hire skis from a shop we trust. These were brand new at the start of the week.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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DJL, the judder might be caused by you not managing the pressure that builds up in a high speed carved turn. Try using more edge angle to make the turn, or flexing your legs a bit more to manage the pressure. Many people have a stronger side and weaker side.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, +
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, I've certainly been more conscious of flexing more and feel that has helped the turn shape (more rounded). Could be not enough angle - I'll try that on the March trip and will try to get a bit of video.
Can't help feeling it might the the R boot "locking up" rather than flexing smootly as the difference is so marked between the two sides.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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DJL, Perhaps you are trying to turn rather than carve?
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I'm certainly intending to carve but aware that I can't see what I'm doing. Should have got one of the guys to watch me I suppose but it seems a bit self indulgent.
I'll get some on the spot feedback in March, have ago at the boot with a hairdyer and some mole grips and report back!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DJL, if there are any doubts with your boots...get em checked b4 you go!
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gatecrasher, They're in the cellar in Chatel - daft really I should have brought them home and had a go in the garage where I've got proper tools!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DJL, 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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geepee, Resisted there on his vicinity
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| Quote: |
1. Is there any chance that I can smooth out the two notches and get the boot closing properly? Heat, clamps, trim a bit away?
2. Might this be the cause of the difference in my left and right performance (or is is a workman blaming his tools) |
I've skiied x-wave 8's and their follow on models for years. While I do notice you can often get a difference if flex between L & R boots (partly no doubt due to differences in my muscle tone) it shouldn't really affect your ability to 'carve' although it may affect your ability to influence turn shape and pressure control by reducing your ability to flex.
My other thought is that perhaps you are overworking the ski's, should they be on the softer side.
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You know it makes sense.
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Could it have more to do with your posture/upper body position vs legs? I developed a bad habit of leaning into carved turns, such that my centre of gravity was falling inside the skis - that causes judder as you can't exert sufficient pressure on the skis to make them maintain grip. It could be that you're more flexible one side than the other, so that you are getting a bit of the error I describe creeping in. A recent lesson from ZigZag in Samones pointed out the error of my ways and I now feel much more stable on my edges, though I still have some way to go to generate the big angles that are characteristic of really accomplished skiers. Unless you are a real expert, I tend to always start witht he assumption that it's the workman at fault, rather than the tools. You really need an expert eye to watch you ski - maybe a quick lesson would sort it and identify whether it's you or the boots?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks all. I think the order of play will be:
1. Try to fix the boots (see tips on the equipment thread)
2. Work on some of the suggestions here.
3. Have a lesson (sometimes get a free one from our regular hireshop/skischool owner)
I'll report back.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I recently had carving lessons to brush up with exactly the same problem. Here's where I was going wrong.
1 - feet too close together. This makes it impossible to keep an edge on either ski
2 - not leaning enough
If you stop and look at your tracks you should see two distinct lines, about a foot apart and consistent. Try to follow someone who can carve and copy them. Also consider a private instructor. An hour should nail it. ESF are good for private lessons if you tell them what you want
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DJL, Plenty of folk have a "better" side when it comes to turning.....I very much doubt it's your boots....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've taken to taking a Club Hammer out with me, and when i get teh judder on one leg or the other, i give my knee a "tap" to kcik it in a bit more
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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darv, "two distinct lines about a foot apart and consistent"
maybe a tad narrow in places! its really ok to see the tracks widen through the apex of the turn, in fact if you don't see this you will struggle to increase your edge angles.
"Not leaning enough" this can be taken literally and can lead to getting stuck on your inside ski especially if you combine it with your fixed stance width above. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| gatecrasher wrote: |
| maybe a tad narrow in places! its really ok to see the tracks widen through the apex of the turn, in fact if you don't see this you will struggle to increase your edge angles. |
Something a bit like this:
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| sev112 wrote: |
| I've taken to taking a Club Hammer out with me, and when i get teh judder on one leg or the other, i give my knee a "tap" to kcik it in a bit more |
In engineering circles we call that a little "fine adjustment".
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Ha yeah something like that!
My number one tip would be get an instructor for a couple of hours
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Thanks guys. Yes a lesson this year I think - I've given it a miss the last couple of trips but always find it useful.
I will be trying to fix the boot first though even if that just stops the pain that develops after 4-5 hours.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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. I am making a conscious effort to get more knee flex
ion to complete the turns . WHAT.
How can more knee flexion complete a turn.
A turn is completed or held by the exac.t opposite of what you are doing.
Dont flex until you have finished the turn. Flexing is the action that starts the new turn.
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| jimmjimm wrote: |
. I am making a conscious effort to get more knee flex
ion to complete the turns . WHAT.
How can more knee flexion complete a turn.
A turn is completed or held by the exac.t opposite of what you are doing.
Dont flex until you have finished the turn. Flexing is the action that starts the new turn. |
Depends on what sort of transition you want to do surely? and which leg you are flexing and why?
Eg. If I want to get higher edge angles and decrease the turn radius I get there by flexing the inside leg more... which I could use to increase the degree of turn if I so desired
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| jimmjimm wrote: |
. I am making a conscious effort to get more knee flex
ion to complete the turns . WHAT.
How can more knee flexion complete a turn.
A turn is completed or held by the exac.t opposite of what you are doing.
Dont flex until you have finished the turn. Flexing is the action that starts the new turn. |
Depends on what sort of transition you want to do surely? and which leg you are flexing and why?
Eg. If I want to get higher edge angles and decrease the turn radius I get there by flexing the inside leg more... which I could use to increase the degree of turn if I so desired |
I can kind of see where your coming from jimmjimm, if DJL, is talking- of trying to get a bit more flex in "both" legs at the end of his turn as this is used more for non carved turns.
I guess when you are talking flexing action starts the new turn you mean by flexing/softening the old outside ski in unison with starting the extension of what will be the new outside ski.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Re-reading my original post I might not have been very clear on what I was working on - it's really what I would describe as getting into a "better" position with more bend at hip, knee and at ankle - getting knee forward might be a better description. What I'm trying to avoid is any kind of stiff leggedness.
In any event I'll try some of the ideas and line up a lesson. The guy who runs the ski school we have used knows me (and my foibles ) pretty well and we have had previous sessions on bumps, steeper skiing and a bit off off piste. Next week should be fairly quiet so I'll try to fix up a one to one session.
Roll on Saturday!
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Fixed the boot (hairdyer then clamp the boot shut with a plastic shim between the overlaps)
Feels better and not noticing a difference between left and right. I suspect the main adjustment was between the ears!
I'm concentrating on getting good edge angle and plenty of hip knee and ankle bend.
Lesson booked for 10.00 tomorrow. Best forego the extra glass of red and go to bed.
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You know it makes sense.
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DJL, good to hear, have a good one!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Fixed! Boot as above, tips and practice helped and the lesson topped it off.
2 hours of overall tune up. Bit of counterturn initiation, short turns, carving. Main thing was a bit more forward bend from the waist and slightly wider stance and knee angulation.
Seems to have helped and managed my first 360 degree carve (but couldn't join the tracks)
Moguls next objective.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Some advice to consider???
Good fitting and comfortable boots remove the issue of your mind thinking about your boots and not your skis.
Two tracks in the snow will start off looking even but as the forces build up into a carved turn the outer track will be deeper than the inner track....
Similarly to control the forces you need to have a longer outer leg and a shorter inner leg coupled with increasing lateral separation through the turn.
Have a look at any GS racer to see this in action and I really do suggest some personal video analysis, words only go so far and you will be amazed how much difference seeing yourself on the screen makes once you have identified the areas to work on and received skills and drills to help improve.
If I was to pick any one of the above it would be the video analysis, its worth the time and effort and as they say a picture paints etc etc....
Good luck and good skiing - you'll get there!
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