 Poster: A snowHead
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Firstly...this is not a question about the BASI route to ISTD or any equivalent from third party countries.
I fully understand that to do so costs around £50,000 (my guestimate) in accumulated course fees, travel and accomodation....and takes a few years even if done at full throttle. My son is close to completing ISIA, I know the reality!
The reason I ask:
I have just returned from staying with a mate who has a house on Lake Annency, we drove the 1 1/4 hours each day to Meribel, where he has a season pass.
Each day we drove past a sign for Ski Montmin, a teeny-weeny ski area very close to where he lives.
I looked it up on t'internet and the thing that struck me was the following comment:
"In the winter, Montmin's small ski lifts are known as a good place for beginning and intermediate skiers; many of the villagers are certified ski instructors"
Now given that this is a very small village, just two lifts, no vertical to speak of. Day trippers only, and even then very much a locals area......how can there be a lot of ski instructors there? There is no way it would be a viable job there, you'd only get a short season, and probably only work at the weekends.
So: do the French have to go through a similar progression of levels, with lots of different courses (and cost)?
Is there a "go directly to Eurotest" route for those who have grown up in race clubs?
I'd love to understand this better.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think all you need to be an ESF instructor is enough exposure to UV radiation to resemble E.T.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hells Bells, Sad to see it isnt just the brits schools fleecing people to enter the ladder with rip off gap year courses but this takes the biscuit. 18 weeks to get to the test technique standard takes rip off gappy courses to a new level...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, I don't have much idea about the costs of these courses , but was told it was cheaper than a BASI gap course?
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Hells Bells, that it is cheaper than a basi gap course doesnt make it good value... 18 weeks would be better spent doing slalom training at a dry slope or dome...
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skimottaret, fair enough.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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£5,326 without accommodation or food 
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| Colin B wrote: |
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+1
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Good grief
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yes, obviously a complete rip off, but some are prepared to pay it. Apparently the course is full
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just to be clear, this 18 week course gets the candidates to a point where they can enter the test technique race test and the preform training, the entry level test all french instructors must pass before they can enter their system, after the TT pass they do the preformation which i think is a one or possibly two week course, YOU THEN enter the main training phase and have 4 years to complete all modules and the Eurotest while being allowed to work and train as an apprentice (stagierre)
If you dont pass the ET and all your modules you are booted out and have nothing.
BONKERS
Hells Bells, you would be amazed at how many parents are prepared to pay 6-10 k on a season course that only prepares gap YAHHHH students to take entry level exams.... Sounds good at the office that Hugo is doing an Instructor training course not farting around as a ski bum for a season...
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You know it makes sense.
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skimottaret, a lot of people who come on here asking about gap courses almost seem to be under the impression that it is the only way to do it
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The ESF suffer the same route to become an instructors i.e. BASI 4 equivalent. From test C/T to ET. Possibly village lifts have same rules as snowdomes for their instructors a sort of club instructor BASI 1
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Poster: A snowHead
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Arno, that is my impression as well and i try my best to ensure SH's understand that there are alternatives... If your skiing is to a reasonable standard there is no need to do a full gap course, just rock up and take your one week level 1 and get a feel for where you are at from your trainer.
There is a whole industry for GAP courses at the entry level just like there is a whole industry at the higher level for ET training. Some like the social element and have the time and money to dedicate to these type of courses but they arent the only way....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cynic, or more likely the locals dont care about the laws and do what they like... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, Do you know the comparitive pass rates between GAP and the ordinary courses I assume 100% on GAP?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Cynic, you would be assuming wrong me thinks. I have seen / trained a couple L1's who passed on the gap year and didnt get their L2 on the same course... I dont have any stats but can recall some high failure rates on gap courses in the past, some arent there for the right reasons and dont really care. On others there are 100% rates, personally speaking if a decent holiday skier trained hard for a season it should be very very achievable to pass L2 whether on a gap course or not.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rungsp, could be some of the villagers are old boys with full certs but there are loads that got in before the ET or the CAPA before it. No disrespect to an old school French instructor but the criteria wasnt as tough as it is now... I would be surprised a BEES1 would be working in a small resort unless they owned the school or lift or....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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So what does it take to be a French Instructor?
I've heard a head for heights helps.............. 
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Naughty
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paulio, Too much of a co-incidence to miss
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, Why didn’t they get the L2 after all that? Was the training not good enough? Or where they duffers to start that should not have been there i.e. would not have passed the old pre course assessment?
I notice on most advertisements for GAP it says become a ski instructor level2 not perhaps; with all that training why is there a doubt anyway?
On other matter to become a ESF instructor one must be fluent written and spoken French as well as sh*t hot skier
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Cynic, Can you train a dog that doesn't want to be trained?
It doesn't matter how good the training is or how much of it there is, if the student isn't really interested then it doesn't make any odds...
Entry level at start of the course can be incredibly weak. Some students aren't really bothered about the whole thing, until they get to about day 5 of the L2, realise they are going to fail then get a bit cheesed off...
And occasionally the training between L1 & L2 courses is cr@p (but generally very good).
Basically there would be very little doubt in the outcome if the students had a reasonable standard of skiing at the start and were switched on & motivated to learn & train, however this is not always the case.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Interesting chat.... but I do totally agree that people think that the only way to do BASI or get 'into ski teaching (or snowboarding for that matter)' is to do a gap course. People would be MUCH better off signing up to do things like indoor instructor training courses or doing clinics like those that Inside out skiing offer. Time does not necessarily mean progress - what I mean by that is that someone could do a 100 week gap course and still fail there Level 1 if they are not motivated and focused. People need to go from being unconsciously incompetent to consciously incompetent before they can start making changes to their performance.
In my experience of training people for instructor exams it is actually people with slightly less experience when they start the training that are more likely to pass as they can be moulded better... in the same way that most ski instructors when meeting guests for a lesson turn off when people start talking about 'colour of run' or 'how many weeks / times, they have skied' and listen for statements that actually show competence e.g. 'im weaker on my turn to the left because my skis skid away'. I have trained people who have gone on to pass their Level 1 and have almost gone up to the Level 2 standard who have NEVER been the mountains before... they ski really technically well. The next step for them is to gain some experience but keep the 'good' stuff in their and then the level 2 will be a walk in the park. Total cost................ virtually nothing!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There are alternative routes to becoming a ski instructor in France including the Gendarmerie, Army and CRS (Police) although all will ultimately have to pass thru the ENSA system. If a Gendarme retires at say 45, he may still have 20 years ahead of him to work as ski instructor or guide.
I don't know about Montmin but at my local resort there are around half a dozen instructors. One ex-PGHM (guide and instructor), one ex ESF la Plagne, he is a surveyor and teaches for a month during the holidays. Another is ex ESF Val d'Isere (a certain M. Bonnevie). Don't know about the others.
Your club racers can pass the test technique and I bet a lot will be eurotest standard by the time they are 18.
Oh my other thought is just because you read something on the web doesn't necessarily make it true.
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Basically there would be very little doubt in the outcome if the students had a reasonable standard of skiing at the start and were switched on & motivated to learn & train, however this is not always the case.
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We've seen the same thing with youngsters doing RYA dinghy instructor courses at our sailing club. Some are actually technically very able sailors, but without the slightest interest in teaching, or spending time with nervous beginners or little kids. They just fancy a summer job in a Greek resort.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Steve Angus,
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People need to go from being unconsciously incompetent to consciously incompetent before they can start making changes to their performance.
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I love that, so true. It's where video helps so much.
boredsurfin, Spyderman, tsk tsk
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
We've seen the same thing with youngsters doing RYA dinghy instructor courses at our sailing club. Some are actually technically very able sailors, but without the slightest interest in teaching, or spending time with nervous beginners or little kids. They just fancy a summer job in a Greek resort.
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Can you blame them? I don't think anyone gets into any sort of instruction stoked on teaching beginners, especially nervous ones. Some people eventually come to enjoy that, others don't and either leave instructing, or specialise in coaching etc.
Which club do you sail at? I grew up sailing in Langstone harbour and often raced in Chichester harbour too.
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People would be MUCH better off signing up to do things like indoor instructor training courses or doing clinics like those that Inside out skiing offer
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I think that should really read 'SOME people would be much better off' If you are already motivated and set on being an instructor, spending time in the mountains is going to be a lot more rewarding than time in a fridge. Additionally 'Gap' courses aren't always insanely expensive, the course I did cost about £2500 for 6 weeks of accommodation and my level 2.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Can you blame them? I don't think anyone gets into any sort of instruction stoked on teaching beginners, especially nervous ones. Some people eventually come to enjoy that, others don't and either leave instructing, or specialise in coaching etc. |
jimmer Perhaps INITIALLY before you embark the thought of snowploughs, sidestepping etc bores and horrifies some people.
If you told me I had a week of group lessons with people who have NEVER skied before and were very nervous, that started tomorrow morning for 5 days.... I honestly would get excited. There is nothing more satisfying (as well as other lessons) than seeing people introduced to the sport that I so much love to do. The 'I did /helped do that' feeling cannot be beaten when you see them ski a green run at the top of the mountain by the end of the week with big smiles on their faces!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Steve Angus, Agreed, teaching beginners is great, the sense of achievement for both parties at the end of the week is great. For them the fact that they go away happy to have learnt a new skill, for myself knowing that I made that happen.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
immer Perhaps INITIALLY before you embark the thought of snowploughs, sidestepping etc bores and horrifies some people.
If you told me I had a week of group lessons with people who have NEVER skied before and were very nervous, that started tomorrow morning for 5 days.... I honestly would get excited. There is nothing more satisfying (as well as other lessons) than seeing people introduced to the sport that I so much love to do. The 'I did /helped do that' feeling cannot be beaten when you see them ski a green run at the top of the mountain by the end of the week with big smiles on their faces!
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That's impressive, I too love helping people improve, but have to admit that sometimes I find very nervous people tiresome, fine to a point, but with the most extremely nervous people I just feel like skiing is not for them. I'd be more more excited if you told me that my beginners for the day/week were athletic and confident.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Plough to parallel is best, make a cock up now and you will see the same guy ploughing years later with the same fault the guy got from his beginner lesson you did not know how to correct.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Be French
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Cynic, Get the ploughs right and the parallels come easy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Don't forget the Gauloises or roll ups.
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Spyderman, Exactly, how many privates do you take when you think hmmmmm
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FAQ
