 Poster: A snowHead
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My family is considering taking the plunge and buying an apartment in the Edenarc development in Les Arcs 1800.
Any feedback on this development would be brilliant - and any general feedback on Les Arcs 1800 would also be useful.
Also any broader opinion on Les Arcs in general would be appreciated. On paper it seems to have everything - big area, high altitude combined with good sheltered tree skiing (unlike the more desolate high alt stations e.g. Tignes, Val Thorens), fewer Russians to push up the prices than 3 Valleys... etc. There must be a catch.....? e.g. do the West facing slopes present slush problem in late season skiing?
Also does somebody know the definitive time to get to Geneva airport (have heard views ranging from 1.5hrs to 3 hrs)
Any info would be really helpful and much appreciated
Thanks !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would work on 3 hours from Geneva any quicker is a bonus ...it took me 2 3/4 this morning but we were held up by rush hour at Swiss border....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sansnom, I'm assuming you have skied in les Arcs before? Just from the way your post reads its not altogether clear!
Can't comment much personally on theresort, beyond the fact that I've skied there a couple days whilst at la Plagne, really enjoyed it, all the positives you mention above, plus you have benefit of the express to bring you to la plagne for a bit of variation!
If you haven't been tho, my advice is go first!!!
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Sansnom, I have an apartment in the next door development. I might be biased but IMO there are no major drawbacks, and late season skiing doesn't present any particular problems due to slope aspect. 2.5 hours is typical for driving from Geneva providing you don't hit any traffic, slightly quicker if you drive flat out all the way, slightly slower if you do hit traffic. Peak time Saturdays potentially add a lot of time.
I don't know much about the EdenArc development, other than friends who recently bought there and and seem happy with their decision.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We have an apartment in Arc1600 and to be honest cannot see any serious drawbacks. It is probably not as fashionable as, say Val d'Isere or Courcheval and this is reflected in the price of apartments.
It has one huge advasntage over the other Tarrentaise resorts in that the funicular takes you direct to Bourg st Maurice with rail connections to the UK.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Peak time Saturdays potentially add a lot of time.
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one of the great advantages of having your own place is not having to travel to and fro on Saturdays!
I'd strongly agree with the suggestions that you not consider buying if you've never been there, though! There are some very useful and interesting threads on snowheads about the pros and cons of buying an apartment - worth searching for them and reading them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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5800 euro/sq m seems rather pricey. Superficially the advertised average return of 3.2% with 3 weeks personal use sounds attractive but buyer beware! I would bet that the 3.2% return is no more than an optimistic estimate, almost certainly not guaranteed and as such an empty promise. I wouldn't be surprised if this figure represents the gross return before expenses such as syndic fees etc. are deducted. Another potential mantrap is that in some leaseback developments personal use may be counted as rent in kind and deducted from the gross return.
Les Arcs is however a great resort. Easy access from Geneva & Turin. Chambery & Grenoble even closer (no more than a couple of hours). Paradiski is a huge area, snowsure with plenty of north/north east facing slopes. Late season skiing is usually reasonable. Even last season when snow cover was poor and forced the closure of many low/south facing resorts we had reasonable skiing at Easter. Admittedly the snow conditions were better in Val d'Isere and Tignes last April reflecting the fact that most of the skiing in these resorts is at 2400m or above, whilst only a minority of runs in Les Arcs are above this altitude but in terms of late season reliability I guess only Espace Killy and Val Thorens offer superior skiing in France. If conditions are really poor, Espace Killy is only an hour down the mountain & up the road in any event.
The major rival to Edenarc will be Arcs 1950. I suspect the build quality etc will be on a par with some of the later developments in 1950 (eg Manoir Savoie) albeit not on the same scale & with a different hotelier running the development. Looking at the prices of some of the properties on sale I think you should be able to pick up a comparable property for around 4500-5500 euro/sq m in 1950. My suggestion would be to book yourself into 1950 for a few days (outside high season you wouldn't need to book a whole week) or Edenarc if it's open for bookings yet, check out the whole ski area, & take a look & compare the Edenarc development with what is on offer in 1950.
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| al.p wrote: |
| 5800 euro/sq m seems rather pricey. |
 Wow, prices have certainly gone up in the 10 years since I agreed the price on my place.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just got back from a week at Les Alpages de Chantel, our apartment looked directly up to the Edenarc building. Part of it is already finished and in use, we sneaked a quick look in the swimming pool window which looked nice.
The location (on the edge of the Chantel piste) is good for ski-in/out but not great for total beginners or those that like to get out on the town as to get to the centre of Arc 1800 you need to ski down, drive or wait for a bus, it's really not walkable. 1950 looked nice but I prefer 1800 as it's smack bang in the middle of Les Arcs so easy to head over into Piesey / Vallandry too. The Alpages de Chantel have a restaurant, a bar and a Skiset shop which would all be easy to acess from Edenarc, otherwise that's it.
We drove from the UK, only real problem was getting out of the Bourg / Moutiers valley, traffic was awful but if you can avoid Saturdays that shouldn't be a problem.
Echoing what others have said, though, there's no way I'd buy something without going there and seeing it first.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sansnom, on top of the skiing use, there's a great network of mtb routes around Les Arcs. Not so good staying up high for road cycling, but manageable all the same. Golf course and tennis courts nearby (you can hit a golf ball a lot further at altitude).
Has anyone who owns an apartment (anywhere) done well out of the TdF when it comes to town (which it invariably does to most ski resorts eventually)?
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| hammerite wrote: |
Sansnom,
Has anyone who owns an apartment (anywhere) done well out of the TdF when it comes to town (which it invariably does to most ski resorts eventually)? |
TdF came to Bourg a couple of years ago and the teams & entourage tour stayed in 1950. Great fun rubbing shoulders with the pros and watching the mechanics at work in the evening. You don't get to see much cycling but there is nothing that compares to the complete madness of the tour caravan.
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You know it makes sense.
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hammerite, it was a bizzare experience in Arc1950 when the tour rolled in - one day about 100 people there; next 1200; next 100. All the dignatories and old stagers, as well as the teams and crews. Talked to Cav (9pm., just finished meal, walking back to accommodation, stops and talks to the kids, signs all the bits gathered from the Caravanne. Nice one). MiniRoll got to see the Lance Armstrong bike being fixed up, and photo'd in the team trailer. IIRC 12 or so of the 19 teams were there that night. Absolutely wouldn't have missed it for the world.
Having said that, given the cost to BsM for bidding for (? buying? - who knows what happens in French politics) the stage finish / start, and then the cost of running it, (both estimated at 1/2 million Euros by inside sources (no, not Snowcrazy!)) it may be a little while before it comes back again...
We bought in 1950 without seeing Les Arcs. Our first trip was to visit the building site that we'd bought off-plan. I've photos of us clumping around the concrete structure in ski gear (we met the estate agent after skiing over from Plan Peisey). H&S ? oh dear no. C'est La Belle France.
We did it based on our Intrawest experience in N.A , and that (plus the projected RoI - now there's a lesson learned) was our reason for choosing it. In retrospect a little wild, but also a risk that we are glad we took. Sometimes you've got to take a few chances in life, and we needed to move quickly to get in the phases that we wanted. But if you have an opportunity this winter to come see the domain for yourself, I'd do it if they are not selling out on release day.
Train connections, great; skiing, fantastic; summer activities, stupendous; Bourg, nice market town; access to other ski areas (both mega-resorts and off-the-beaten-track) , simple. Yup a worthwhile place to spend some time.
Note EdenArc is being built by the same company (SoBarTat) that did 1950, and many of the same names are involved (ex ITW France - fronted by Robert Jerome, he of the eponymous Auberge Jerome in 1950, and you may see David Geradi mentioned). Caveat Emptor on the promised returns.
Also there are two of the 1950 shop owners, Jerome Roche and Siw Rousseau involved in the process - I believe they're opening outlets there.
But best wishes, whatever your choice.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Sansnom, If you want to send me a PM here or over on my Les Arcs Winter facebook page I will be happy to answer any questions you have about Edenarc. There are a few people I know who have just bought places. Some interesting details I have heard, but best not published here. Do not read anything bad into that, they seem reasonably happy with their new apartments. It is very early days yet as only the very first block is partly completed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I was considering a leaseback in Les Arcs a week or so ago. After taking in in depth look and also talking to fellow  's I concluded that any apartment would be unlikely to return sufficient yield to fund the interest payments on a mortgage (let alone repay any capital). Furthermore there are considerable buying and selling expenses and an uncertain outlook for leaseback apartments at the end of their leases. This is a bit of a shame as I like the skiing in Les Arcs and the developments were exactly what I was looking for.
In the end I concluded that a far better business decision would be to purchase a BTL property in the UK and rent an apartment where and when I wanted one.
I wish you good luck if you decide to go for it and if you ever want to offload your free weeks you know where to go!
Pete
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
In the end I concluded that a far better business decision would be to purchase a BTL property in the UK and rent an apartment where and when I wanted one.
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I understand your conclusion .... but there is something wonderful about feeling a part of the owners community in 1950. And we look forward to a healthier future with (happy) rose tints!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I can't argue with your sentiment! Maybe one day I'll be able to afford a 1650 place!
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