 Poster: A snowHead
|
I am doing an introductory "decouverte" day of ski randonnée on Sunday. I've spoken to the guide/instructor and he has suggested I hire skis, boots and skins tomorrow, and try them out.
I haven't the slightest idea how to go about this - obviously I will go to recommended shop and ask their advice but it would be useful to have some pointers beforehand.
My priority is gear which will be moderately easy to use - it's just an introductory day, we're not going to be doing any big ascent, so if there's a trade off between lightness of gear and ease of use for a beginner, I'd go for ease of use.
I'm a bit nervous about this - hope my two companions aren't 25 year olds fresh out of the French army.
At least I'll learn some useful French vocabulary!
Very grateful for any useful information.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
DB, thanks. Useful video.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
pam w, There were loads of french soldiers in Tignes during the PSB. You wouldn't have any problems with them coming down, they were generally pants, although obviously pretty fit going up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| My priority is gear which will be moderately easy to use - it's just an introductory day, we're not going to be doing any big ascent, so if there's a trade off between lightness of gear and ease of use for a beginner, I'd go for ease of use. |
I agree with what DB said about Fritschis being the most likely offering for hire tomorrow and that they will be a breeze to use, being quite intuitive if you're already used to skiing regular alpine downhill bindings. But if you do get hooked you may soon want to invest in your own kit and don't then be tempted to just go with what you know. If you base the decision on lightness of gear instead (that means Dynafit), you can't help but enjoy touring a whole lot more because you can then do a whole lot more climbing without getting too tired to really enjoy the downhill. That 3rd video clip made the Dynafits look more complicated than Fritschis but they're not really, they're just mechanically different and a lot more efficient with it. They're also good to go anywhere you'd normally take a regular resort binding.
The only other bit of advice to ensure you don't spoil your enjoyment on your discovery day is (and like with any endurance exercise), not to be tempted to go off too fast or to feel pressured to climb at a faster rate than you think you can comfortably do all day. Take it easy to start and speed up if or when you feel comfortable. It's very easy first time you climb to assume that it's going to be a similar work rate for the same uphill progress as summer hiking but the extra 4kg or so on the end of each leg makes a huge difference.
I hope you have a great day. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
moffatross, thanks. I've told the instructor/guide that I'm an OAP. I am moderately fit, and will certainly take it easy. The downhill ski level required for his introductory days is only ESF Level 2, and I'm comfortably higher than that, though not done much off piste.
I think watching some of the stuff posted by the gnarly men of SHs has intimidated me somewhat - I suspect it will be fine.
Very grateful for the advice - I'm sure that walking up even a gentle hill with 4kg on each leg will be very good for me.  I'll tell you how it goes. I've done some cross country, but only on tracks/pisted routes. I much prefer the idea of skis with metal edges that I can clamp my heels down on!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Layne, 
I have no (current) ambitions to do the Haute Route. But I do have ambitions to last more than another 3 or 4 years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I'm not 100% convinced you will need to hire boots for a discovery day????
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
pam w, if you are hiring kit try & hire skis similar to whatever you normally use ( or possibly a smidge wider). The biggest problems I have seen have generally been with people used to skiing 80mm/90mm underfoot all-round skis being given super-skinny lightweight rando skis and lightweight floppy boots. Likewise with boots depending on how much uphill you are likely to be doing and how comfy your boots are consider using these and just hiring skis/bindings/skins.
Have seen a few reasonable skiers struggle over the years due to being on totally unfamiliar & not very helpful kit on the way down...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
another vote for using your normal boots unless they are so uncomfortable you can't walk in them. undo/loosen all the clips while skinning if this makes things easier
touring is great because it is a great way to move through the mountains when there is snow on the ground. you can end up somewhere with a nice view and some easy meadow skipping or super steep mega descents - the choice is yours and the kit is the same
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I hired boots, skis and skins before seeing the previous few messages. The boots and bindings are Dynastar, and the skis are Dynastar too - 4800. I had a pootle about. The boots are very comfortable and light - quite a pleasure to walk around in. With the heels clipped in they felt absolutely fine to ski; I just felt slightly more inclined to pay attention to being properly centred.
I had a short walk uphill. Felt a right twit putting on skins at the bottom of a green run then walking up to the top of the beginners chairlift - I went in a more or less straight line, some on piste, some off, and skied down OK - off piste, but it was v gentle.
My normal boots are very close-fitting; I really dislike walking in them, though they're fine for skiing (Zipfits). I quite like the little rando boots, which are very new and sparkly and flexible in "walk" mode. Could get used to using them all the time!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
pam w, welcome to the wonderful world of ski touring 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
offpisteskiing, thanks. Baptism of fire tomorrow. 8 am in Beaufort car park - I'm usually only just getting up then and Beaufort is 25 minutes away!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
pam w, Will be interested to find out how you get on being fairly new to
Touring myself!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Alans deep bath, I'll let you know but I sincerely hope this is going to be a very, very, gentle introduction. Not like those videos people put on YouTube.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
pam w,
Just to add - doing up touring boots is an art all in itself. Some people leave all the buckles open. I tend to do up the bottom two buckles - this stops my foot sliding forward and bashing my toes until the nails fall off. Some people do all the buckles up.
If it's windy try to find a place out of the wind to put off / take off your skins otherwise they flap around and stickl to each other, your goretex jacket or your forehead etc.
If you have blister packs (e.g. compeed) then take them with you just in case. Wear layers and take a second thin pair of gloves for on the way up. Don't forget to take plenty to drink either.
Have fun tomorrow.
At first it's a faff but after a while you get used to it and then you can get to places other skiers can't reach.
http://www.three-peaks.info/uploads/pics/skitour4_01.jpg
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
DB, very useful advice,thanks. I discovered this afternoon how hot it gets, climbing up! Compeed is a good idea, will put some in my pack. I only did a very gentle ascent, of about 200m today, but did notice my shins rubbing a little - I have some special green pad things for that, must look them out. Maybe I should have left the top buckle undone. Such a lot to learn!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Don't forget a camera Pam, enjoy yourself! I remember taking gloves off in about -15 due to being so warm !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
pam w, now you know how nice touring boots feel. I got some a few years back and have found them very good. I would, however, suggest you try skiing fast on them, also try them on a black run. On my first couple of such runs the touring boots felt very strange and I thought my skis were flapping around underneath me. I got used to it, or maybe I learnt how to control them better. I would recommend you try them on slopes where you can experiment with speed, slope angle, turn type, etc rather than trying to get used to the boots while following an instructor or guide.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Enjoy, go at your own speed, and focus on not lifting your feet/skis off the snow at all on the way up - slide em. Feels a bit strange at first as you kinda feel the urge to "walk", but far more efficient to slide rather than lift the weight of the boot, binding and ski. Stop often and enjoy the scenery!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes barry makes a very good point - slide the skis. If the snow is a bit damp it might be worth rubbing a bit of wax (e.g. candle wax) on the tops of the skis to stop the snow sticking. Your heel lifting is what causes heel blisters, getting just the right pressure on the second (+ third buckle if closed) seems to be key.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
pam w,
Have a great time I have really enjoyed the few little randonees I have done.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
stewart woodward, well said sir. Where are you pam w?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Maybe she enjoyed it so much she's in a hut ready for a summit attempt at first light
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 stewart woodward, well, didn't get back till 5pm, then had a shower and went straight out to dinner. Was starving!
Had a great day, well judged by the guide for an "initiation" I think. I was glad I'd done a bit of familiarisation with the kit yesterday. The other two customers, a couple of young French students, turned up with Alpine gear so we had to go via a hire shop to get them some suitable gear. They were also late (the guide and I had already had a coffee before they arrived - in a café full of gnarly looking mountain men all meeting up for their Sunday randos - I felt a bit out of place!).
So at least I turned up on time, and with the right gear. We hiked up around 400m, which is not exactly a lot, I realise, but some of the terrain was quite steep (we had to do lots of conversions) and some was under trees, with icy and uneven snow piles where piles had fallen off the branches. Side stepping up an uneven icy pile of snow between trees, with free heel skis is more complicated than one might think, isn’t it? The tails tend to get left down the hill.
On more open terrain, I had no problem with the sliding bit, having done a bit of cross-country, and indeed the montée was at a gentle pace, and we stopped to look at animal tracks etc to get our breath back. I imagine a key skill of skinning uphill is to choose the optimum route - and of course the guide did that. I did get a blister on one heel (stuck some compeed on when we stopped - thanks DB) and on one shin but had no problem with the aerobic aspects of the ascent. The French student girl, who was a little tubby and a bit over-dressed for an ascent, coped less well with the aerobic aspects but her boyfriend was “ sportif", with a lot more mountain experience. We stopped to eat our sandwiches (Beaufort cheese, evidamment…..) beside a lovely old chalet at the "Le Lac du Clou" (this was Areches-Beaufort area) and after lunch the young French guy and the guide hiked up a little further, then came down and picked us up for the descent. We found some quite nice powder snow ( "pas top-top mais encore bonne" was the guide's verdict) which was OK (I didn't ski it well, at all, but I did it) but some was " cartonéé" (?sp). What’s that in English? I only learnt French vocab today. The French students are both studying Physics and spoke good English, but the guide didn't, so it was a French day.
I had difficulty with the bits through the trees, seemed quite steep at times, and very uneven, very icy bits of snow which had fallen off the trees, quite a lot of conversions required and bushes to avoid. I had no proper falls (the sort where your skis come off and you have to swim around for exhausting minutes getting yourself back together) but “plopped” several times mostly from “manqué de volonté” rather than anything more serious! At one point my skis were one side of a bush, me on the other - the guide extricated me from that one.
The French girl had, like me, very little off piste experience but she’d been skiing since she was 4 and coped better than I did with the descent. I think she only “plopped” once.
It was an excellent day and I'd like to do some more - but it ain't cheap, with paying the guide and renting gear. Maybe another day before long, provided it's definitely an " initiation" day and I'm not going to have to hike up 900m. At lunchtime the guide was telling us about the Pierra Monta Ski Alpinisme event, in mid March. They do 2000m in 55 minutes up, and 5 minutes down.
So - I walked a lot further up a snowy mountain than I'd ever done before, and skied further off-piste than I've done before, enjoyed it and lived to tell the tale. I need a lot more practice off-piste...... 
The guide, Yves, stopped on the way up to "scotcher" the basket back onto his ski pole. The gaffer tape came out of the backpack - I took a photo of what seemed a quintessential mountain moment!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
pam w, if you get into it you may find adding some convertable bindings like dukes to your usual all mountain skis and some skins (picked up at the end of season sales) may work out cheaper than renting.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
kitenski, I did wonder about that, especially as I have two very similar pairs of skis, and could make one of them a rando pair, with Dynafit bindings. given that the kind of skiing I do doesn't need top precision I wouldn't mind making my next pair of ski boots rando boots, and just having them - they're sooooooooooo pleasant to walk around in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
pam w, excellent report and well done on your initiation. Because at the time I had it in my head I was going to do some more touring I had Fritschi bindings put on my new ski's back in 2001 and even persuaded my future wife to do the same. Even though they've never been used for their intended purpose they've been no problem used purely for standard alpine skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
pam w,
Glad you are safe and well and enjoyed your day. I thought you may have been enjoying a well deserved G & T,or something similar.
I look forward to more instalments in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
pam w,
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes backcountry touring can expose you to all sorts of conditions. Not sure how it works in France but here in Austria there are ski touring groups from places such as "the Alpinenverein" (sort of Mounteneering Council/Club) that do different level tours. Works out lot cheaper than hiring a guide all the time. I hook up with experienced Austrian's and we often go into the back country without a guide on the simple tours.
Example touring pics on this thread .....
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=78100&start=400
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Looks lovely - rather more ambitious than my effort! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
CAF organise group trips in France. they always look like very social groups when I have shared a hut with them, with a big range of fitness, ability and aspiration
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
Is this a new addiction for you?
|
I wouldn't describe myself as addicted - but I think I could get very fond of it. However, there's a way to go. Was just going out skiing for a few hours - had rather forgotten about the blister on my heel. I jammed the foot into my v tight Alpine boots but having done them up discovered it was too sore to want to go out just for fun though if it was a case of walking rather than spending the night on a bare mountain, it would be different.  Will give it a day or so to heal and make some creme brulee instead!
I like the idea of a social mountain walk with a ski down at the end - will have to explore the options for finding some suitably geriatric companions round here - there's one walk in particular, which I have in mind, with some nice non-scary powder skiing down into the Douce Bowl, but I'd not be very comfortable doing it alone.
Another possibility, much more manageable for me on my own, would be to get some solid kind of cross-country boots, rather than the slipper-like ones I tried before, and the rather chunkier, shorter, "rando" cross country skis and explore the local cross country trails, which are very extensive and some of them very difficult on skinny, heel-free skis. Once I had that gear I wouldn't need to spend any more money.
Worth thinking about.
Meanwhile, will try my snowboard boots tomorrow, which will probably press on a different part of my heel. I seem determined to be incompetent at a range of snow sports rather than getting good at any one of them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DB, what state was the glacier in? I've been meaning to to do this tour for a couple of years but every time I visit my mate nr Salzburg the avvy risk has been high and / or there have been reports of some properly big crevasses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
I have just finished my days work and was looking forward to reading about your day.
