 Poster: A snowHead
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DB,
Thanks for the AAA tyre test - now all I nned is to get it translated to see what they said about my quatracs. I had a look and my last set of Quatracs on the front of a diesel Skoda fabia lasted 21,929 miles before I had to replace them.
I've also driven in Norway in winter and there we used studded tyres and they did a pretty good job on packed snow and ice and we didn't need to use the chains at all. The majority of cars that did any significant driving away from the big city (Oslo where we were) were fitted with studded tyres - though you had to pay a tax to drive in Oslo with studded tyres as they do a lot of damage to the road if there isn't a covering of snow or ice. Only once seen studded tyres on a car here, it was parked in the car park at The Lecht.
I agree with eEvans, I am always surprised how few people fit winter or all season tyres on there cars here in Scotland even those who regularly go skiing. It has always struck me as daft not fit winter or all season tyres if you ski regularly in Scotland
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So that not everything is lost in the translation .....
Trocken = dry
Nass = wet
Schnee = snow
Eis = Ice
Komfort = comfort
Aussengeräusch = outside noise
Rollwiderstand = rolling resistance
Verschleiß = wear
ÖAMTC Empfehlung = rating
empfehlenswert = recommendable
Sehr = very
bedingt = conditionally
nicht = not
Sieg Heil = Hail Victory
The lower the number the better. e.g. the Goodyear Vector 5 gets a rating of 4,1 (comma's = decimal point in german) for snow which is Scheiß (crap / poo-poo).
http://dict.leo.org/?lang=en&lp=ende&search=
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DB, Cheers for that. I'd worked out what most of the headings were, but couldn't work out what the numbers meant. The quatracs are conditionaly recommended and (if I've read it correctly) are the best of the all season tyres. I was looking at the 2003 test for my tyre size. They also give more detail on each tyre if you click on the tyre name. Very usefull.
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One question, with winter tyres on can I drive down the Peage for 6 hours+ at 85mph without additional noise and mpg caused by the tyres?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| One question, with winter tyres on can I drive down the Peage for 6 hours+ at 85mph without additional noise and mpg caused by the tyres? |
Depends, my winter tyres were much quiter than my last set of summer tyres although my latest set of summer tyres are quieter. In general tyres that grip better use more fuel and create more noise. Winter tyres tend to be narrower so the reverse may be true. I doubt the difference is really that great that you would notice but you will notice the difference in safer braking distances and grip in wintery conditions.
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boredsurfin, winter tyres have speed ratings like normal tyres, you can drive at whatever speed the rating allows.
I used to drive most weekends from Southern Germany to Austria for some sliding at normal Autobahn speeds, fule consumption was a little better than summer tyres but theres a slight noise/rumble from the tyres but it's barely noticeable.
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| ise wrote: |
| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| I hadn't thought of fitting only to the drive tyres. Is this recommended or frowned on? It would certainly help with cost and storage if I only needed two wheels rather than four. |
I really don't think this is a good idea at all. It's not analogous to snow chains at all, snow tires aren't traction devices. You need them on all four wheels if you intend to stay on the road or use your brakes. |
Ian is right. In addition in France if you are controlled you will be fined and may not be able to continue your onward journer for mixing tires. All 4 tires must be exactly the same - same type, size and manufacturer. This is one thing the Gendarmes who run road blocks love to check carefully although I admit the chance of being stopped is quite rare (I've been checked 1 time in the last ohhh 13 years - but I don't drive very much).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I am spending this season in France (might have mentioned this before  ) and I want to fit winter tyres to a 4 wheel drive. (245/70 R16 if it matters). I have found a tyre supplier who has four old steel wheels to replace my alloys and fit them with four brand new winter tyres. However they are very very cheap and I want to know how I know if they are a quality product. Of course I'd like them to last 30-40,000 miles or more but accept that they may not, my primary concern is though - how do I tell if will they be effective in snow/ice conditions from just an inspection. These are large tyres and I'm being quoted £51 each, fitted and balanced, any ideas - they just look round and black to me
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Frosty, It's probably worth mentioning that if your car genuinely requires alloys (ie they're not just a fashion accessory) then you need them during the winter as well. Steel wheels aren't an option for some cars.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ise, Thanks, I 'll check with Mitsubishi to be on the safe side
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snowbunny, I think it's different type that matters (eg Winter on front, Summer on back) that's not recommended rather than 2 different brands . Doesn't the tread type have to be the same?
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar.org.uk, good thread, thanks
ise, DB, thanks for the excellent info
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Helen Beaumont, Well, that would have made sense, except for davidof, 's post which indicated contrary
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All 4 tires must be exactly the same - same type, size and manufacturer.
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If I put a mix of winter and summer tyres on my X-Trail it would damage the viscous coupling for the 4 wheel drive. It would also handle like a pig I imagine
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowbunny,  didn;t read that post properly did I !! By the way what was your handling probelm with the Dueller tyres. I only ask cos they're on my new X-trail.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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2 winter tyres and 2 summer tyres are a definate no-no, even if it was legal it would be very dangerous. It'd be like having shopping trolley wheels at one end.
As far as I am aware (must check) the tyres must be the same on each axle here in Austria (i. e. two winter tyres of type a on the front two winter tyres of type b on the rear). It's best to change the tyres in pairs otherwise I believe this can give issues with diffs etc.
Frosty, steel wheels are very cheap when compared to alloys. Mrs DB has big alloy wheels on her Espace but still has steel wheels in the winter. When the snow falls its sometimes difficult to work out where the edge of the kerb is and the car often slides a little. Steel rims give the advantage that you can have a thinner winter tyre (less rolling resistence in the snow and so better traction) and if you hit a kerb steel wheels are a lot less expensive to replace than alloys.
I'm surprized France requires all wheels to be the same. Does anybody know the Swiss and German requirements? It's probably worth buying five winter tyres and having a winter spare / backup for a puncture. Chances are that your model of winter tyre won't be the current model when it's time to change* and it would be a shame to have to buy four new winter tyres just because you get a puncture on one.
* The rubber compound on tyres changes over time and should be renewed after 5 years.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 25-11-05 9:52; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty, you're unlikely to get 30-40k from snow tyres, we find that we have to replace snow tyres every season on our mini-bus which probably equates to about 10-12k.
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Helen Beaumont, The issue for me with the Bridgestone Duellers. Specifically they were skittish. Tramlining, hopping over road repairs etc. Originally they were on the front, and we decided to rotate to the rear, and the same characteristics emerged. The "final straw" for me was a dry weather significant tail end drift on a big roundabout exit!!. Phoned my usual tyre dealer in Brackley and fitted another pair of GrandTrek. The dealer also found that the "toe in" wheel alignment was +25deg of a minute instead of +5deg of a minute, which may or not have been a factor. My steering is somewhat lighter now, and the car is a lot "calmer" on the road. The tyre dealer questioned me at length about the Bridgestones, he has another XTrail customer who was having problems with this tyre. He did confirm that the Dueller and the GrandTrek are the same type and a compatible mix. He also told me that "the trade" considers the X-Trail to be handling sensitive where tyres are concerned. Now my SO has just taken delivery of a new AWD car fitted with Bridgestones, and he is very happy with them . I hope that mine were simply duff tyres, and yours will be fine. By all means PM me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Got me winter tires fitted now:
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| DB wrote: |
Frosty, steel wheels are very cheap when compared to alloys. Mrs DB has big alloy wheels on her Espace but still has steel wheels in the winter. When the snow falls its sometimes difficult to work out where the edge of the kerb is and the car often slides a little. Steel rims give the advantage that you can have a thinner winter tyre (less rolling resistence in the snow and so better traction) and if you hit a kerb steel wheels are a lot less expensive to replace than alloys. |
Yes, but with the caveat that steel wheels aren't always suitable, they increase unsprung weight which can be detrimental for handling. They are also poorer conductors or dissipators of heat which can lead to brake overheating and braking fade under harder braking conditions. The typical spoke arrangement of alloys increases air flow to the brakes as well. Basically sticking a good high speed rated tyre onto a steel rim on your Porsche may not work out well while it'll be fine on your Daewoo.
| DB wrote: |
| I'm surprized France requires all wheels to be the same. Does anybody know the Swiss and German requirements? |
Here only certain combinations of tyre/wheels are allowed, any tyre supplier is able to look up what's allowed for a particular car. I can't see that would allow different wheels/tyres.
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Thanks ISE but I leave the Porsche and Ferrari in the garage during the winter. 
Understand the handling reasons but surprized at heat dissapation esp as it's cold when you put the winter tyres on.
Meant to say "I'm surprized France requires all tyres (not wheels) to be the same". I have 2 of one type on the front and two of one type on the rear, as fitted by a local tyre place. The snow isn't different in France is it?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have all seasons on the front and summer tyres on the rear (cos the garage couldn't get two all season tyres for the rear and fitted what they could get when I needed new rear tyres). I've also driven with snows on the front and summers on the rear for 7 winters in scotland and never had a problem with a light tail end. If it looks like we are going to have a bad winter I'll probably get some snows for the front and move the all season tyres to the rear.
I got my spare rims for free from the skoda dealer, he had them in from a new car he'd sold that had upgraded to alloys - said he often skipped steel rims in that situation.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We Fitted Continental Winter contacts to out Golf Syncro 2 years ago for its 1st season in the Alps, its now done 2 seasons and the trek back and forth to the UK as well.
They are absolutely superb..... Carry chains but never had to fit them, 8-9" of snow is no problem, and they are so much better in all winter cnditions than usual summer tyres.
Last Year I took my Quattro out there for the season as well, I bagged a set of Viking snow tyres off ebay for £40, and they were great, again , never needed chains and only got stuck once, when I drove into a parking space that had been snowed on and I beached the car  Had the wheels had weight on them I would have been fine... I had driven in and out of the space a few times as well.... just too eager to get on the slopes to clear the space first.
The vikings drove out to Meribel lasted the season, the drive back and a few months back here as well, but they were used and abused Hard..... They drift really nicely when the temperature rises
The Contis on the syncro will take it out again in a few weeks and I will get a new set fitted once out there......
Well recomended and I am on the look out for another set of winter tyres for the quattro this year as well, for use over here.....
Having experienced even cheap snow tyres during winter, I would not be without them 
HTH
Dom
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Don't bother...use 'snow socks' £59. They are fantastic, so easy to fit and they got us up to Courchevel in the blizzard that caused a lot of problems last Feb half term with no hastle at all! Audi and BMW are recommending them, I think they are a Norwegian invention.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Lorraine wrote: |
| Don't bother...use 'snow socks' £59. They are fantastic, so easy to fit and they got us up to Courchevel in the blizzard that caused a lot of problems last Feb half term with no hastle at all! Audi and BMW are recommending them, I think they are a Norwegian invention. |
BUT this is from the UK supplier
http://www.roofbox.co.uk/snowhome.html
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Q6 Are they approved for use on roads where snow chains are mandatory?
A6 This is a grey area. It's better to be safe than sorry, so you should take snow chains for e.g. self-drive ski holidays to the Alps. In any event the tests show that snow chains are superior in hill starts - see Research & Development. |
and this from the manafacturer
http://www.autosock.com/default.aspx?aid=9049483
Are they approved for use on roads where snow chains are mandatory?
Per date, AutoSock is not approved as a snow chain according to the Önorm 5117.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sat 26-11-05 17:42; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We witnessed a car with 'socks' being towed by the Police in Val Thorens last January because it had slid broadside into the entrance to a car park and couldn't get any grip to sort itself out! They are not a good idea imho 
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Poster: A snowHead
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The Gendarmes stood and watched us put them on, half way up the road where they were stopping people and asking them to put chains on. When we reached 1850 and parked up, another one came over and asked us where we got them from, he thought they were great....doesn't appear to be a problem.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Lorraine wrote: |
| Don't bother...use 'snow socks' £59. They are fantastic, so easy to fit and they got us up to Courchevel in the blizzard that caused a lot of problems last Feb half term with no hastle at all! Audi and BMW are recommending them, I think they are a Norwegian invention. |
I find that stunning, they've been tested by a few European motoring organisations and test bodies and been given universally bad write-ups.
Yet the Autosock website claims they've been tested and approved by a few manufacturers, that's "approved" and not "recommended" which I suspect is a an important distinction.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dave Horsley wrote: |
| I have all seasons on the front and summer tyres on the rear (cos the garage couldn't get two all season tyres for the rear and fitted what they could get when I needed new rear tyres). I've also driven with snows on the front and summers on the rear for 7 winters in scotland and never had a problem with a light tail end. If it looks like we are going to have a bad winter I'll probably get some snows for the front and move the all season tyres to the rear. |
Scotland doesn't have the altitude of the Alps and it's near the sea (which provides a warming effect so snow tends not to hang around as long). I doubt Scotland has the volume of traffic on mountain roads that europe has in the middle of the skiing season. Driving in fresh snow isn't normally too much of a problem, it's when it's been compressed into hard snow and ice then hidden by a covereing of new snow that it gets tricky. When everybody around you has 4 winter tyres on and brakes, odds are you are the one who is going to shunt the car in front or have your rear end overtaking your front end. As people have said before it's also ilegal in central europe and there could be insurance issues. Last thing I would want is somebody elses injury on my concience along with a claim against me, all for the sake of a small investment.
PS If anybody is buying tyres off ebay, try to find out how old they are as tyres have a shelf life of approx 4 or 5 years. After that the rubber compound changes and doesn't perform as well.
Anything that is easier to put on than snow chains (e.g. Spikes or snow socks) doesn't perform as well. If you have an accident with snow socks on a mountain road with a snow chain sign up be aware that your insurance may not pay out (if you have an accident with a local it could automatically become your fault because your car doesn't meet the legal standards required and the locals will point this out to your insurance company). When you need to put on chains you need all the help you can get, IMHO the extra effort of snow chains is worth it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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[quote="snowbunny"]davidof,
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I hope that this only relates to snow tyres, or this would be in conflict with the UK MOT, which requires tyres to match on the same axle. |
I got the information of the French government road safety website. I read it as meaning that all four tires have to be of the same type and manufacturer. Seems a bit stringent to me as you may not be able to get spares to match. I dont' think the French care very much about the British MOT or indeed any other EU or British laws for that matter.
That said, as others have pointed out above, the Gendarmerie and even less so the Police are probably not your main concern as they are generally very busy when it snows but an insurance claim could pose problems.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| Driving in fresh snow isn't normally too much of a problem, it's when it's been compressed into hard snow and ice then hidden by a covereing of new snow that it gets tricky. |
True, driving around on Friday with the snow still coming down, taking the uncleared road between Les Arcs and Peisey (which will be a "piste bleue" in a week or so), absolutely no problems with a front wheel drive car and 4 winter tyres in good conditions... until I came up behind a sightseer in a BMW and standard tyres ...
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PG, I had a similar experience in my hire car (a Merc A-Class, with winter tyres) driving from Tignes to Les Arc on Friday afternoon. Saw four cars off the road between Tignes and BSM, and lots of others sliding all over the place. The journey took more than 2 hours, compared to the 1 hour that it takes snow-free! I was deeply relieved that the hire car had sensible tyres, which meant I didn't need to bother with chains 
I would have called in to say 'hello' on my way back up to Tignes, but I was running a bit late so had to drive straight through. From your photos on MSS I think we may have been in Les arcs at the same time as I think I can see my car parked outside Alpage du Chantel (it was a gold-coloured A-Class)!
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boredsurfin, I didn;t see the point of the Snowsocks, as they wer nearly as expensive as the chains I ordered ( Rud Power 4x4) -I hope they're as easy to put on as Snowbunny said they were.
,
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Well I put in an order for 4 winter tyres on the French sister site of Mytyres on Saturday. The order hasn't shipped yet so I was getting a bit curious. I did a search for the tires I ordered. It seems since I ordered them the price for each tyre was increased by 40Euro !! So assumming they ship them I saved 160Euro. Does anyone know what my rights are in this scenario. There was an agreement of sale (at 69E), can they now say "oh we made a mistake, they should be 108E?"
Anyways I'm hoping they ship them soon. Winter is definately here now.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Helen Beaumont, Have faith and sit and read the instructions 1st
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snowbunny, yes, but it will be my hubby who puts them on, and which man reads the instructions first
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FAQ
And what about the spare tyre, it's bound to be different to the others 
