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What is my Skiing Level?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
jedster, nope Wink
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
skimottaret, Is it it easy to make (or playback) them in slo mo at all, the whole way through?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
not sure i follow you, I could do slo mo as per the outtakes but would be pretty long (and boring) to watch... I just used a bit of slo mo to highlight the recoveries..
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kitenski, Download it as an MP4 then you can do whatever you want.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
skimottaret, I was wanting to watch the "experts" level 11 longs in slo mo, especially around the transition
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skimottaret, Nice video of how it should be done Smile
But how many more years of coaching to get to expert level. Puzzled
So much to learn rolling eyes
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
this is some random footage of a race trainee in slo mo , dont know him but..


GS racer slo-mo from InsideOutSkiing
https://vimeo.com/57271271

this one I do know


Rob, long radius turns, slo-mo from InsideOutSkiing
https://vimeo.com/79838624
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Grrr....why do they make it look soooooo easy!!? Laughing
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Yeah, I know - years of training and experience..............but they make it look soooooo easy..........!!
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Megamum Read Bounce by Matthew Syed or The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle for an answer...
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
kitenski, I am planning on doing a course this autumn on movement analysis and video review and will be assembling a lot of video of decent skiers to pick apart... have a few already in mind Toofy Grin
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
skimottaret, If you really want to wind-up Megamum, you should put up the vid of you skiing gates (very well) uphill Madeye-Smiley
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Mind you at least now I can see what it is that good skiers do well. I now comprehend enough of the theory and when I see videos like that I can see all the good things the good skiers are managing to do that I don't. I just can't copy it!!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
skimottaret,
Quote:

I am planning on doing a course this autumn on movement analysis and video review

Oh, wow, you're going to learn how to do it! Yippee! wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Pedantica, Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Pedantica, Hardy har... Smile sorry meant to say I shall endeavour to prepare a lecture on the topics of ... ps you are not invited NehNeh NehNeh
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum, Ahhh but do the not so good things they do jump off the screen and make you wince... Toofy Grin Lots of room for improvement on many of the skiers highlighted...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skimottaret, I probably don't see them all (or anywhere close), but there were at least a few instances where I suddenly thought 'Oops!'. They were the odd lapses that were a mistake against what had previous been right and they just stood out, but I probably couldn't say what had caused them ('cos I'm not an instructor!! Toofy Grin ) - in a lesson situation it might be educational to guess though Toofy Grin I shall be in CFe practising tomorrow Very Happy

What did occur to me today is that I wouldn't go an practise in a snowdome if I didn't enjoy this lark would I? It must therefore be growing on me. Mind you with the limited amount of time someone like me can spend on snow I do wonder how many more levels it is possible to attain. I think I'm a level 6 at the moment - do you think there is a 'glass ceiling' for skiers like me?
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skimottaret wrote:
Megamum, Ahhh but do the not so good things they do jump off the screen and make you wince... Toofy Grin Lots of room for improvement on many of the skiers highlighted...





Do any of us really ever stop wanting to and needing to improve, no matter how good we are or perceive ourselves to be ?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
speed098, yes, quite a lot of SHs have answered this before that they are happy with where they're at and just enjoy their skiing.
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Yes maybe not want to improve in the sense of reaching new levels but still improve, iron out niggles at the level they are at and happy with.

When I was skiing at my best I concentrated on how it felt not how it looked, I new from others my technique was solid enough and dynamic but for me how a particular run felt was the goal to perfect, now that run still had mistakes ( look at the insideout level guide level 11 out takes to see what I am talking about) no matter how good you are no matter how strong or how much finesse you will never beat the mountain at best you will become it's perfect partner working in harmony and that feeling is incredible and can be attained by most skiers because the mountain has many levels just as there are many levels for us skiers.

So for some yes they want to move say from a lvl7 upwards maybe an 8 maybe an 11 or even 12 but for others it is to be the best they can be at the given level to flow and work in harmony with the mountain and not be fighting it and you don't need to be an expert to do that.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
speed098, my girlfriend has no interest in changing how she skis. She's happy to trundle around on blues and reds, enjoying nice weather, lovely scenery, hot chocolate stops and fine company. If conditions turn tricky (weather, visibility, etc) she's equally happy to chill in the apartment with a book or a good movie. A long time ago I stopped putting pressure on her to improve her skiing as it was making her holidays in to something she didn't want to do. Seems like an equally valid way to spend time in the mountains compared to someone who is looking to improve their skiing, even if it's just a little bit.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
rob@rar wrote:
speed098, my girlfriend has no interest in changing how she skis. She's happy to trundle around on blues and reds, enjoying nice weather, lovely scenery, hot chocolate stops and fine company. If conditions turn tricky (weather, visibility, etc) she's equally happy to chill in the apartment with a book or a good movie. A long time ago I stopped putting pressure on her to improve her skiing as it was making her holidays in to something she didn't want to do. Seems like an equally valid way to spend time in the mountains compared to someone who is looking to improve their skiing, even if it's just a little bit.

This is so true. I think your girlfriend is likely to represent the majority view among leisure skiers and I hate the way that many of the must-improve crew completely fail to understand their perspective.

Personally, though, I always want to improve. And I think that's one of two missing factors in the skiing levels referenced right at the start of this thread: what are my aspirations? The other missing factor is fitness.

I would prefer to casually ski or share a few days' lessons with someone who skis below my level but who's hungry to improve and very fit than I would with a better skier with no ambition and fitness issues.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

I think your girlfriend is likely to represent the majority view among leisure skiers and I hate the way that many of the must-improve crew completely fail to understand their perspective.

Not bothering to try to improve is absolutely 100% fine provided you never encounter anything way outside your comfort zone. Several of the people I've skied with who are in the "can't be bothered with lessons I can ski OK" camp spend a significant amount of time each holiday feeling very uncomfortable, whether because of finding themselves on a run harder than they'd anticipated, or because of difficult snow conditions, bad visibility, or whatever. They really couldn't be said to be "having fun" and if they're miles from home when the weather closes in stopping for a hot chocolate might not cut it - especially getting towards "lift closing" time. I would love to be a level 11 skier but that's not going to happen. But equally, I do like to think I can "get down" safely and preferably enjoyably even when the going gets a bit tough and lessons have helped me achieve that.

I have a few people who come and stay with me who stopped taking lessons far too early in their ski career and can only cope with very easy slopes and conditions. They are easily spooked, get very tense, slow and nervous, so that even once they've got down the bloody slope they are so worn out they have to stop for a coffee. They aren't really enjoying themselves that much.

I also have some people who have had very few lessons, and not for years, and who happily bounce round anything, leaving me trailing in their wake. I'm not saying everybody needs lots of lessons but it's obvious even observing from a chair lift that some people would be having more fun if they could ski better. I passed one skier snowploughing very nervously on a shallow green slope today. He had huge long skis and I thought at first he was on cross-country skis, which explained his nerves and his posture. But they were immensely long straight sided downhill skis. There was a man having no fun; the body language said it all.

Plenty of visitors to our resort never ski. They walk, snowshoe, potter round having a coffee and cake, look after grandchildren. All perfectly valid ways of enjoying the mountains (and I spend more time doing those things than I do skiing).
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Quote:


I would prefer to casually ski or share a few days' lessons with someone who skis below my level but who's hungry to improve and very fit than I would with a better skier with no ambition and fitness issues.


aye
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
pam w wrote:
They really couldn't be said to be "having fun"

Quote:
They aren't really enjoying themselves that much.

Quote:
There was a man having no fun; the body language said it all.

I'm sure everyone isn't having "fun" with their skiing 100% of the time. But the fun times must make up for the bad times, otherwise they wouldn't do it! I've often said I've had a brilliant day - and mostly I have. When thinking about it further I've blocked out the moaning about the poling, the impossible drag lift and the tiring, sticky slush on the way back, etc Laughing .
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

But the fun times must make up for the bad times, otherwise they wouldn't do it!

I hope so. Some of them are doing it because other people want them to - often a problem with sailing too.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
pam w wrote:

I hope so. Some of them are doing it because other people want them to - often a problem with sailing too.


In which case I don't think it's more lessons they need.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
swiftoid, it depends. One friend of mine has just passed her RYA Day Skipper Theory exam because her OH is keen to do more sailing holidays and she realised she'd enjoy them a lot more if she was more knowledgeable and could play a greater part.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
pam w wrote:

I have a few people who come and stay with me who stopped taking lessons far too early in their ski career and can only cope with very easy slopes and conditions. They are easily spooked, get very tense, slow and nervous, so that even once they've got down the bloody slope they are so worn out they have to stop for a coffee. They aren't really enjoying themselves that much.


The problem I have with this, as a qualified instructor in a very complex discipline, is the assumption that the only way to learn is through old style bog standard teacher to pupil instruction. An understanding of multimodal teaching techniques and that people are so "different" that there are many many other ways to learn is rather important.
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andyrew wrote:
that there are many many other ways to learn is rather important.


Do you have examples of effective ways of learning skiing other than with a qualified instructor or coach? Note a good instructor may not and should not use "old style bog standard teacher to pupil instruction" for every pupil.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kitenski, from peers.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yeah kitenski - people with decent analytical skills and a good sense of how their body is positioned spatially can learn A LOT from just watching and copying. Equally solid technical skiers who are conscious of what they are doing and why yet have no instruction training can have a big impact on their friends skiing with just a few words everynow and again. I've benefitted from that and sometimes helped others.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not claiming you can learn as much per hour skied like that as you can with a trained instructor but realistically you can get many more hours of watching and copying. The other thing worth considering is steps forward / learning milestones tend to happen when conditions / practice / a new insight / right frame of mind all coincide. This may not happen conveniently in the slot you booked for a private lesson.
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meh, jedster, I'm being deliberately awkward, however genuinely interested, but what if your peers/folk your watching have bad habits??
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
kitenski wrote:
meh, jedster, ... but what if your peers/folk your watching have bad habits??

Your analytical skils will tell you to copy someone else.
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Reading, thinking, experimenting?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
kitenski, I generally agree with points raised by others above that skiing with peers is my best form of coaching. I've skied with instructors in the past, usually off season and typically indoors at fridges when it's quiet. I personally don't want to spend my valuable proper ski time on piste under instruction and I know it's not a one-size-fits-all but I get more out of studying others' styles and working on replicating the good I see in others. The more I ski with varying people, most of who are experts anyway and really capable I slot some of their good points into my own style of skiing.

The other things that I think are really relevant is that 1:1 coaching isn't cheap and I feel better value therefore learning from my pals "on the job" as it were, i'd rather put that money into Guiding days....plus I've got to be in the mood for learning, if I'm on holiday and have had a couple of beers the night before on impulse I don't want to be thinking about the fact I've got a lesson the day after, plus if I'm not in the mood I'll just buzz about rather than being over-bothered on a particular day. Other days I'm in the mood and work hard at technique.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

people with decent analytical skills and a good sense of how their body is positioned spatially can learn A LOT from just watching and copying. Equally solid technical skiers who are conscious of what they are doing and why yet have no instruction training can have a big impact on their friends skiing with just a few words everynow and again.

strongly agree with this - my younger son is a good example. Had maybe one week of ski school when he was about 9. Was already very good by holiday standards when he spent a winter working in Val d'Isere and shared a flat with a top BASI instructor. He went out with the instructors on their days off and though he said he felt like an utterly hopeless beginner in comparison with them he learnt a huge amount and survived.

But the kind of people I'm talking about don't fall into that category. Some of them have had 7 or 8 weeks on snow, doing easy runs, and they are still absolutely hopeless - tense as anything, and constantly worried about what's round the next corner. To me, they have two rational choices - get a bit better, so that they can enjoy it more, or give up skiing and enjoy the many other ways of having a good time in the mountains. My daughter in law, who struggles with anxiety not just skiing but in other spheres of life, has decided on the latter approach. She's had good instruction (including the best part of a week in a BASS group as a complete beginner cut short by a fall and an ACL rupture and some excellent private lessons more recently) and she's been keen to ski because my son loves it and they both want the kids to ski. But on her last trip she decided not to ski and enjoyed it all far more - and I encouraged her not to feel badly about it. I don't think further instruction would make any difference - she has good basic technique but will always lack confidence. She is a highly qualified swimming coach and an excellent swimmer - it's not just that she's uncoordinated or not interested in sport.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
kitenski wrote:
meh, jedster, I'm being deliberately awkward, however genuinely interested, but what if your peers/folk your watching have bad habits??


Then you might pick up some bad habits. The same way you would by skiing with an instructor and practicing in your free time.

Learning from peers is something that happens in numerous other sports and in working life as well. You could argue it might not be as effective but it certainly works well enough!
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meh, +1
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