 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Everyone,
This is my first post on this site, so apologies if this is one of those standard questions which crops up a lot!
I first went skiing on a school trip about 5 years ago and then went again for the first time since last year and got absolutely hooked! I have always had tuition and it has helped me improve my skiing massively. I would only consider myself an early intermediate at this stage but hopefully will progress further this year (heading off to Niederau for a week in early Jan).
I really want to get more skiing in, so hoping to get away at least once more (preferably more) before the end of the season, but was wondering whether it is best to stick with the tuition or might it be just as useful practising on the slopes on my own? .... or is that just likely to lead to bad habits?
My ski instructor was fantastic last year and the words that have stuck with me ever since are "it's not being able to ski fast which is impressive, it's being able to ski slow" ... and looking at some people on the slopes ... I can see that is 100% correct .... Obviously leaving out the tuition makes things cheaper.. and might mean I can get an extra week away, but if it's likely to do more damage than good, I'd be happy to do the 1 week with tuition.
Would really appreciate your opinions.
Thanks in advance
Al
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ski_AL, welcome to snowheads. IMV there are many great weeks of skiing to be had without tuition - though I bet you'll learn from watching your companions. But from time time get some more formal instruction - not just to learn new techniques but also to make sure that your basic skiing is still sound. Most of all, have fun. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Usually, more tuition is better. However, if the choice is more skiing at the expense of tuition, I'd say more skiing.
Can you find a middle ground that you can get a couple days of lesson and still get 2 weeks skiing?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ski_AL, you can never have too much good quality coaching, but I agree with achilles that you don't need to be in formal lessons all the time no matter what your skiing level. Get some more mileage in, maybe spend a bit of time focusing on some of the things your instructor had you working on, but above all enjoy it.
Welcome to snowHeads.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd say if you can afford it, get as much tuition as you can, will help you progress quicker and develop good technique. At the end of the day though, do what you enjoy and gives you the most time on the slopes!
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It's entirely up to you and what you want to achieve from your skiing. I haven't had any tuition since my fifth school trip back in the mid 80s. I am a recreational skier and I can get down more or less anything. I doubt my 'style' is much to be impressed with but for me it's a holiday first and foremost. I'm not worried about having the right technique, I'm just out to enjoy myself.
But everyone is different and some really want to push their boundaries and explore different areas of the mountain. It's down to you to decide what sort of skier you are.
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For the record I have never had a single ski lesson and i am a decent intermediate skier. I Learnt the basics myself and just went from there. Will I have bad habits I dont know exist, yes of course I will do. Next time I head out I'm thinking of a few lessons to improve my technique and progress me further. I would say mix it up a little. Do a few hours say 3 mornings, then head off yourself.
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We started in the late 80s with lessons for about 5 years (1 week) then stopped skiing due to lack of money, then had a child and re started about 3yrs ago with her.
My how things had changed, I had skis that were short and a funny shape, my thick padded bright red jacket was so wrong...
We took lessons and re-learnt how to ski. after years of trying to keep my feet close together I now have to keep them apart etc...
We now have lessons in the morning and ski together in the afternoon.
I think that it is a bit of a “Fashion” thing, all our instructors can tell where that person learnt to ski and when!!!
Just enjoy!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If I understand your post correctly then you've had two weeks of skiing and made lots of progress, and are now approaching week 3 (and hopefully 4). Having been there only a 2 years ago myself I'd suggest sticking with instruction for now as you'll still continue to make big strides with an instructor at the moment, which will make your skiing far more rewarding and easier so I wouldn't stop/take a break from it yet.
If you can only afford one week of tuition this year can you split it across both trips? Some ski schools (well ok, ESF which is all I had before the tuition on SH trips which work differently) will let you join a group class for just the first 3 days of a week.
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Just do morning with an instructor and try to implement what you've been taught in the afternoon.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You obviously understand the importance of instruction, but also are beginning to feel, either from a freedom or cost aspect, that maybe it's not the be all and end all.
If all you want to be is a decent recreational slider, it's not heresy to turn your back on it, from time to time, if that's how you feel, especially if you think doing so might double your slope time this coming season. It's a holiday to be enjoyed when all's said and done, and if you're not enjoying it, you should be doing something else. However, as you seem to recognise, it's probably not the best idea to turn your back on tuition permanently.
Lastly, welcome to  and a lifetime of skiing (maybe boarding too.....  ).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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BCjohnny + 1
You never learn anything so well as when you do it yourself. You know the essential basics and now you can develop on them.
However, it's good to get a tune up now and then to correct the inevitable bad habits that will creep in.
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Try it.
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You know it makes sense.
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I can reccommend the videos here, It is a little dated now, but despite new shaped skis and everything else, this is still (by far and away IMHO) the best plain language explanation of skiing I have ever seen. I always lend this to guests who are trying to make that tricky breakthrough from early intermediate to advanced skier.
I think it helps enormaously to learn with an instructor whos native language is the same as your own, I think a lot gets lost in translation.
Its a lot cheaper than a week of lessons and I think you will get more out of it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ski_AL, don't understand why it's an either/or decision. Lessons in the morning, free ski in the afternoon. Or lessons Sunday/Tuesday/Thursday and free ski the other days.
Anyway, keep taking the lessons. There's probably still room for improvement.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| andyph wrote: |
| Ski_AL, don't understand why it's an either/or decision. |
I think the OP might be able to afford 1 trip with lessons or 2 trips without.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Maybe have a private lesson on your second day, and specifically ask the instructor for things to practice on your own. And then practice them!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If it is, then I must be very, very bad. I haven't had a lesson since I learned in the 50s and early 60s.
The point is to enjoy yourself (but the problem with not having ANY lessons can be that you can get stuck on a plateau or develop bad habits, so a few lessons are a good idea, especially early on, because it is enjoyable to ski well and it allows you to ski places you might not ski otherwise.) Probably I'd have got carving properly earlier if I'd had lessons (though some may dispute that I do it properly now).
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 21-12-11 13:39; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowball, nope. Looks like I have had more lessons than you - but having skied with you, I'd say you are a way better skier. Talent counts.
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Like many have said the way forward is to have a mix of tuition and skiing with your friends.
IMO skiers who spend the majority of their time in lessons end up being quite limited skiers because they are used to being being told what to do/ where to go. Skiing with friends requires decision making and assessment of risk, valuable skills in the mountain environment.
So I say yes, 'break free' explore the ski area yourself, maybe try a little 'just off piste' and mess about in the bumps and the trees, try some small jumps. Enjoy yourself. You may find yourself 'survival sliing' to get yourself out of tricky situations- but it's all a learning experience and will make you a stronger skier.
Oh, and don't give up on lessons. How about 2 days in ski school on each of the two holidays.
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Even the top Ski Racers are still being coached....theres always something to learn!
I would go for 2 weeks, instruction in the morning then free ski in the afternoon, practicisng the points that were given to you in the morning whilst having the maximum fun anf time on snow.
Mileage can be just as important as technical know how as its the only way to develop the balance and posture!
The key here is to get the most from your lessons, ask for constructive feedback (preferably with video), take notes and reflect on these post your days/weeks skiing.
Then use these notes, video before your second week to re-cap, that way you will hit the ground running (not literally) from day 1!
Mark
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I would choose whatever lets you get that second week. As others have said, tuition is great, but practice and fun are just as important in the learning process, so a week without tuition will be fine.
Another option to consider: take a few lessons at a snow dome or dry slope near you before you go. That should give you something to focus and work on while you're on the mountain.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree with pam w. A private lesson (with a decent instructor and they can be hard to find) or two is worth more than the daily grind of group lessons imv. Above all, once you can get down the hill UNDER CONTROL there's nothing like mileage to improve (again imv, I'm not an instuctor).
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I don't think you can underestimate the importance of either mileage or lessons.
Group lessons can be a bit of a mixed blessing as they depend so much on the rest of the group. But they're good for mileage.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 21-12-11 14:22; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Absolutely. I've had loads of lessons and have skied with people who have hardly any. Some people can ski for years and really get no better. But others, with very little formal teaching, can be very good indeed, and certainly way better than I am - if they have the right kind of ability and motivation.
But just sitting on a chairlift, you do see a lot of people who badly, badly, need tuition. For me, as an older skier, lessons have been particularly valuable in improving my technique so my weight is stacked on my skeleton, not hanging off the back, straining quads and knees.
I wouldn't want all day lessons though - I don't think I could cope, unless they were very gentle.
I have persuaded a few very reluctant friends to take a private lesson. They are often very apprehensive, somehow thinking it's all going to be difficult and/or embarassing. They have all, without exception, come back on a real "high", having thoroughly enjoyed themselves. But I do know a couple of local instructors - and have one particular favourite who is charming, and brilliant with everyone from very nervous OAP beginners through to my son in law, a good skier who got shown some fantastic new off piste routes and techniques. Not all instructors are equal but there are SHs with a lot of local knowledge, in a load of different resorts, who could recommend someone.
Group lessons can be fun, but they can also be boring and frustrating, especially if you are either the weakest or the strongest in the group. It's good to be in the middle! But if you go to one of the specialist ski schools (EG BASS) which guarantee no more than 6 in a group, then it's a whole different ballgame to those big ski school "snakes".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I don't think you can underestimate either mileage or lessons.
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or maybe overestimate....
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Wow, I can't believe all the responses I have had - Thank you all so much.
I think I am likely to end up in Austria at least one of the potential two holidays and they seem to have all day tuition, so I might do what some of you have suggested and book 2 or 3 days tuition and then just spend the rest of the week working on what they have outlined, hopefully that way it should keep me on track in terms of technique and allow me to get in that extra week later on as well!
Really appreciate all the responses!
Can't wait to get on the slopes, my parcel with my rather fetching bright orange salopettes and oakley goggles arrived today, which has really got me counting down till January
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You know it makes sense.
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Ski_AL, i too have started skiing recently and managed to get 6 weeks skiing in the last three years and spent god know how long in the Chill Factore. i went in ski school the first two ski hols and found great to get going but since then I have found that 2 or 3 lessons on all but the last holiday in Tignes have improved my skiing more than I could imagine that further group lessons would have done.
If you ever fancy Serre Chevalier, Darren Turner, (Insightski) is fantastic.
Others may disagree but to be honest I have had a couple of lessons in Chill Factore and whilst the instructors seem OK, I found the constraints of the place a bit limiting compared to lessons in the alps. Wouldn't spend any more of my money on lessons in a fridge.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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timbarrett,
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Others may disagree
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Indeed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Ski_AL
Firstly, welcome to SH - they're a great bunch
I'm in a similar place to yourself - sadly, more than a few
years older  (
My experience so far is you can't beat getting the miles
in - and you won't do that in school in Niederau - it's not
that big an area, lots of nice steepish red runs to
play on, but you'll stop often when in a school group
BUT - don't underestimate the social aspects of school!
It's a great way to find your way around with like-minded
souls
This year, I'm thinking same way as you - school for first 3 days,
then go it alone - will be first time alone for me excepting
a few odd days in Scotland
Most important thing is to have fun - it's not hard!
Geoff
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Ski_AL wrote: |
Wow, I can't believe all the responses I have had - Thank you all so much.
I think I am likely to end up in Austria at least one of the potential two holidays and they seem to have all day tuition, so I might do what some of you have suggested and book 2 or 3 days tuition and then just spend the rest of the week working on what they have outlined, hopefully that way it should keep me on track in terms of technique and allow me to get in that extra week later on as well!
Really appreciate all the responses!
Can't wait to get on the slopes, my parcel with my rather fetching bright orange salopettes and oakley goggles arrived today, which has really got me counting down till January
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One-week vacations once or twice a year will never be enough to become a great rider, no matter how many lessons you take.
It takes dozens of continuous hours on snow to become good. The body's and muscles' memories need to be trained, stored, and retrained.
Take a two-week continuous vacation, preferably three, and spend a third of the time in lessons.
Two or three continuous weeks on snow will advance your skiing more than any one week of lessons can.
Good luck.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Whitegold wrote: |
One-week vacations once or twice a year will never be enough to become a great rider, no matter how many lessons you take.
It takes dozens of continuous hours on snow to become good. The body's and muscles' memories need to be trained, stored, and retrained.
Take a two-week continuous vacation, preferably three, and spend a third of the time in lessons.
Two or three continuous weeks on snow will advance your skiing more than any one week of lessons can.
Good luck. |
First time I did two weeks on snow was when I did my Level 2 instructor exam, up until then everything had been one week or long weekend trips. I humbly suggest that it is perfectly possible to reach a reach a decent level of skiing without spending more than one week at a time on snow.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's curious to me how a number of people in this thread assume ski lessons means you can't have fun. Some of my most enjoyable skiing has been when I've been in group lessons.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, oh, I think good lessons certainly can be fun. OTOH, surely the object of lessons is to enable skiers to get around the mountain without supervision? So getting to a stage where lessons are not required each day has to be a good thing, I think - though I also think that for most (me included) there will always be a need for skiing with an instructor from time to time. How often that is will depend on individual circumstances.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ski_AL, dude
Whitegold is correct for the total time of two weeks a year you spend skiing
snowheads is an instructolisational zone
beware advice about having loads of lessons
it tends to come from instructors or instructees or instructorisites or biased
no amount of lessons for the two weeks skiing you do will make you a Miller man
you have the basics
practice what you have already been taught
have the odd two hour lesson
save your cash and book an extra weekend skiing
enjoy yourself
ok bye
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OK, I've done quite a lot of skiing and had relatively few lessons. I'm no rockstar but I ski to a pretty decent standard.
When people ask my advice on lessons I tend to tell them - do ski school for the first 2-4 weeks on snow (probably half days with free skiing in the afternoon), after that book a small number of private lessons (3 2-hour lessons in a week would be loads, on your own or with one other skier of similar ability). The quality of instruction you can get when a instructor is focused on you, your faults and how you learn best is radically different than in a group of 6 or 8. Then PRACTICE outside lessons. That doesn't mean constant drills but it does mean constantly thinking about what you have learned, what is working and what is not working. Ideally ski with people who are more technically adept than you and just watch what they do, what is it that they do differently, what does that achieve. Try things. See what works.
Now this advice is probably particularly good for people who are reasonably coordinated, can visualise what positions they are getting their body into and have some grasp of physics. If you struggle with that stuff then you probably need more continuous feedback from an observer - could be an instructor or a friend who skis well.
Whitegold said the following:
"One-week vacations once or twice a year will never be enough to become a great rider, no matter how many lessons you take.
It takes dozens of continuous hours on snow to become good. The body's and muscles' memories need to be trained, stored, and retrained."
I don't totally agree with that. Obviously becoming a "great rider" requires way more time on skis than holidays allow. At least if you are using the word "great" with any accuracy!
Becoming good I think is different. On of my mates has never skied more than 10 days a year. He started in his teens. He skis better than 95% of people you see on the piste. He's very competent off-piste. Very solid technique. How come? Well he is quite a talented sportsman and he has always focused on improving whenever he is on skis. You can aspire to that standard and I'd call that "good".
Have fun,
J
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| jedster wrote: |
Hi Ski_AL
Firstly, welcome to SH - they're a great bunch
I'm in a similar place to yourself - sadly, more than a few
years older (
My experience so far is you can't beat getting the miles
in - and you won't do that in school in Niederau - it's not
that big an area, lots of nice steepish red runs to
play on, but you'll stop often when in a school group
BUT - don't underestimate the social aspects of school!
It's a great way to find your way around with like-minded
souls
This year, I'm thinking same way as you - school for first 3 days,
then go it alone - will be first time alone for me excepting
a few odd days in Scotland
Most important thing is to have fun - it's not hard!
Geoff
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Niederau is indeed fairly limited on it's choice of runs and I think in the next couple of years I will definitely be looking for resorts with more runs on offer, but for now, the quality of the instruction was enough to drag me back there. Although having said that, I'm not necessarily a great judge of what makes a great instructor. But I certainly enjoyed the tuition, met a lot of great people and improved my skiing massively.
Definitely think I will go down the few days tuition route though, gives me more time on the slopes, but hopefully by having some compromise it will mean my skiing can continue improving at a reasonable rate.
Hope you have a great time skiing this year 
| jedster wrote: |
OK, I've done quite a lot of skiing and had relatively few lessons. I'm no rockstar but I ski to a pretty decent standard.
When people ask my advice on lessons I tend to tell them - do ski school for the first 2-4 weeks on snow (probably half days with free skiing in the afternoon), after that book a small number of private lessons (3 2-hour lessons in a week would be loads, on your own or with one other skier of similar ability). The quality of instruction you can get when a instructor is focused on you, your faults and how you learn best is radically different than in a group of 6 or 8. Then PRACTICE outside lessons. That doesn't mean constant drills but it does mean constantly thinking about what you have learned, what is working and what is not working. Ideally ski with people who are more technically adept than you and just watch what they do, what is it that they do differently, what does that achieve. Try things. See what works.
Now this advice is probably particularly good for people who are reasonably coordinated, can visualise what positions they are getting their body into and have some grasp of physics. If you struggle with that stuff then you probably need more continuous feedback from an observer - could be an instructor or a friend who skis well.
Whitegold said the following:
"One-week vacations once or twice a year will never be enough to become a great rider, no matter how many lessons you take.
It takes dozens of continuous hours on snow to become good. The body's and muscles' memories need to be trained, stored, and retrained."
I don't totally agree with that. Obviously becoming a "great rider" requires way more time on skis than holidays allow. At least if you are using the word "great" with any accuracy!
Becoming good I think is different. On of my mates has never skied more than 10 days a year. He started in his teens. He skis better than 95% of people you see on the piste. He's very competent off-piste. Very solid technique. How come? Well he is quite a talented sportsman and he has always focused on improving whenever he is on skis. You can aspire to that standard and I'd call that "good".
Have fun,
J |
Thanks for the advice. I think because I am still getting a huge amount out of the tuition as I am still very much a beginner in the sport the guidance really helps, which is why I still see real value in keeping tuition in some shape or form, so I think I will probably stick with group tuition a few days of the week each time this year and then hopefully the following year I can then move on to some private tuition to really focus in on particular aspects of my technique.
I absolutely love the skiing, whether its in or out of ski school, so it's more about whether going alone when still an inexperienced skier is likely to impact negatively on my skiing, but from the responses, most people seem to think not - so that's great!
Part of the reason for wanting to get the extra holiday in is that I would love to do a season as a ski rep (I'm sure there will be lots of opinions from everyone on that one! lol) and looking at the application forms this year, they seem to be more concerned with the number of weeks skiing you have done, rather than your actual ability, so I was hoping the extra week might help me stand a chance doing that for a season.
Once again, thanks for the responses - some really interesting thoughts and views
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| achilles wrote: |
| rob@rar, oh, I think good lessons certainly can be fun. OTOH, surely the object of lessons is to enable skiers to get around the mountain without supervision? So getting to a stage where lessons are not required each day has to be a good thing, I think - though I also think that for most (me included) there will always be a need for skiing with an instructor from time to time. How often that is will depend on individual circumstances. |
I agree, although I don't think lessons have to be limited to skiers who are as yet unable to get around the mountain without supervision. A good instructor or coach can improve the performance of any level skier, if they are interesting in changing and improving how they ski.
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I'd also advise Different people learn differently i.e. at different speeds etc. Some are better off doing a morning lesson then having the rest of the day to practice what they learnt that morning and so on. Depends on your aspirations as a skier, allot of people want to just get to a level where they can get by and enjoy the majority of the mountain on their own nothing wrong with that.
I'd also advise quality over quantity in the form of smaller group or private lessons and if you're going to a particular resort as for peoples opinions on here for personal recomendations. I'm out in Japan at the moment visiting a mate who's doing a season instructing and the skiing standard in the ski school he's working in is generally poor so any potential punters pays their money and takes their chances kind of thing!
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FAQ
