Painful feet

A snowHead

http://www.salomonski.com/uk/products/products.asp?id=784654

I bought a pair of these boot the other day from Ellis Brighams, very comfy when standing up in them doing nothing.

However I went to Xscape the other day and when Im getting dragged up the slope by the poma lift I get an excruciating pain in my left foot on the outside edge about midway between my heal and ball. When I get to the top it goes and I am fine until the bottom and have to get on the poma again.

After an hour I sat down for a bit and massaged my foot. It looked like it had been run over by a steam roller ! both feet seem to have flattened out and gone very wide.

Strangely when I put the boots back on I had virtually no pain for the next hour....

What could it be ??

A snowHead

Royal, Very difficult to say, but it can take up to three weeks to "break in" a pair of boots, so it's probably just that. Stick with it - if they hurt, do what you did before. Very Happy

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Royal,

My boots sometimes hurt when I first put them on and for the first few runs. Some days they hurt all day, other days they don't hurt at all...weird!

As easiski, give them a chance to break in and if they're still causing you a lot of pain go back to the bootfitter and they can make minor adjustments - though be careful they don't overdo it! Until then if they're hurting you on the lift just try losening them off a bit as you go up.

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Royal, do you have slightly flat feet ? sounds like you are getting pressure under the arch of the foot, try putting heel lifts under the insole this will put your weight over the ball of your foot rather than the arch which is not designed to take any loading

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

What insoles do you have in them?

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do you know I dont think there are any insoles... but I will check.

I have very flat feet ever since I was a boy and have always had pains in boots but I thought having my own would ease the problem.

Having said that The second hour they didnt hurt at all ! Very weird.

I had my boots fitted at ellis brigham in manchester, I might go and ask the lad if he can do something with insoles.

I wonder if they will charge me ?

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Royal, if you have bad flat feet the boot fitter should have noticed, if they didn't then they're not a decent boot fitter don't use the same person... ever !

There will be some insoles, but they might be difficult to see as theyre usually quite tight inside the linner and often are quite difficult to get out initially.

Having your own boots will ease the problems but they need to be expertly fitted, you may need a moulded insole for extra support, but I'd definately reccomend heel lifts under the insole, they make a huge difference to foot comfort, for me it means the difference between skiing for two hours in a day and being able to ski all day.

The insoles could be about £30 extra, but the heel lifting wedges will be under a tenner.

Hope that helps

After all it is free

By the way, am I correct in thinking that the inner boot comes out of the shell completely so you can walk in it ? Thats what the web site seems to be saying

yes the inner boots come right out, but you dont need to take them out.... they have a walk mode button at the back you just flick it down and hey presto !

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thats great advice about the heal lifters, Im in two minds now whether to go to the ellis brigham in castlefiled leeds instead now...

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Royal, ring them up and see if they have a regular boot fitter, if not find somewhere else to go, I'm assuming you'd done up the laces on the inner boot first ?

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Royal, I would suggest that rather than heel lifts, which will change the angle of your foot, and thus your ski control, that you may want to go for full insoles, so you get some arch support, as well as holding your heel better.
You can get ones such as Conformable, which are moulded to your foot, or Superfeet, which are pre-shaped.
I've been using Superfeet in 3 pairs of ski boots now, and I do find them very effective.

Wear The Fox Hat, I've used both of the insoles and have found I still need the heel lifts, without them the underside of the arch takes a lot of load which in turn causes a lot of pain, currently I too am using the Superfeet insoles and they are good but not good enough for me.

You are right though they will change the control you have over the ski, although in my case this is for the better, it is something you can easily adjust to though, it also gives you a bit of foward lean which is not a bad thing

You know it makes sense.

Royal, I get the same problem in both feet when being dragged, but it only lasts for 10 minutes into the session, 15 if I haven't skied for a few weeks or sometimes not at all. I've had several people suggest insoles, but haven't bothered as the discomfort goes away quickly and the more regulary I ski the less of a problem it is. However, if your still feel severe pain after a several sessions skiing and it hasn't got any easier it would be a good idea to see a bootfitter to help rectify the problem.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Ive just taken the boot liner out and had a look inside....

There is just a solid bit of flat plastic that comes out with a gentle tug, so I think I should look at having a moulded footbed of some type, think Ill give them a ring tomorrow.

A snowHead

Royal, I'd recommend going back to EB's at Castleford (book an appointment with Julian, he's very good) & have your fitting checked. Afterall, that's why EB's offer a fit guarantee!

I would have thought that custom insoles would be required for someone with your foot problems. They are also a great benefit to correct alignment etc. The factory insoles are basically junk - they know most people bin them & go the custom route so they simply don't spend any money on them.

With regard to using the poma. Are you a relative beginner? If yes, many beginners to sit back too far & have a tendancy to try & grip, not only with their thighs but also with their toes to maintain balance etc. This really makes the soles of the feet sore. I know cause I used to do it. Try to stand more upright with your knees pushed forward over your toes & relax. No offence if you're really an expert poma user Embarassed

.

A snowHead

Thanks spyderjon, Im off thurs/friday so will try and go up then, plus its a good excuse to try some new skis for a few hours !

I'm feeling a bit miffed with eb in manchestoh now I must say.

As regards the poma, no im ok at skiing but end up wriggling and hopping around in pain on the poma no matter what contortion i try and get into to ease the pain.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Royal, sadly it's all to common a problem, there are very few skilled boot fitters in the UK, most ski shop staff are simply there to sell the products hardly any of them actually know how to fit a boot properly Mad

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I'm flat footed too (Extremely, physios laugh when I take my socks off!!!). I now own a pair of ski boots but as a novice 10 years or so ago rented my boots for the first few seasons. Some years the boots were great and other times the pain was indescribable at the bottom of the first run, other times it appeared later in the day/week but unbearable in the end. At that time I just changed the boots for a different model/brand etc until I found a pair that were ok - tedious to say the least and nearly put me off skiing when it was at its worst. I was unlucky as it took me a lot of experimenting so get the foot bed right (with a little help from some Snowheads too I must say). I know lots people who swear by the comformables but they only gave me temporary help because the footbeds would flatten out after a few weeks skiing - I expect it will depend how heavy you are and how often/hard you ski before this happens (I'm 85 kilos and try to ski 3/4 weeks a year). Having said that if your boot fitter can't sort the problem out with wedges etc then the off the shelf variety of insoles are going to be a cheaper experiment than a custom foot bed and I'd probably give them a try first. Good Luck

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I tell you what, I'd pay anything to get rid of the pain....

That said at the moment its only when im getting dragged up that lift !

I'll ring them tomorrow

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This sounds like something I suffer from, and have done for a number of years through a variety of boots.........but only when I use Poma tows (such as the one at Hillend in Edinburgh which is my local dry slope). I have never had the same pain at any time on snow, when I tend to be almost exclusively on chairlifts. I have had for a number of years custom insoles, which has made no difference to the "Poma pain", but means I can ski all day on snow with no problem. It also only affects me in the first 30 mins or so ie when I get loosened up/warmed up it goes away......rightly or wrongly I have put it down to the way I stand (badly) on the Poma (it only is sore when I am getting dragged up, skiing down is not a problem.) so I now try to stand as tall as possible and stretch the muscles at the backs of my legs, which helps me at least. I dont seem to recall having had any issue with this on either Pomas on snow at La Thuile or TBars at Whistler

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i only get it in one foot beat that !

After all it is free

Royal, one foot is probably less well fitted than the other thus it hurts more

Royal, I have one foot flatter than the other (much).....so there !

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I am suprised you did not know the liner comes out. The boot fitter should have done this to get a shell fit. You put your foot in without the liner and there should be around a 2cm gap behind the heel when you push your foot forward. Certainly if it was heat mouldable though I'm not sure (salomon)"Two layers liner : thermoformable foam 80% on all sensitive areas (heel + metas + sole). Better comfort on the heel, metas & sole without altering performance." Did they heat mould the liner to your foot. Did they measure your foot. If they did nothing but throw you a pair of boots "around" your size I would kick up hell for being so incompetent. How tight are your boots?

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I got some conformable insoles with my boots. Maybe worth the investment as boots should last a while

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easiski, is three weeks of pain a little of that British stiff upper lip? why the endurance test? are you sure the pain will go away? could nerve damage result? since you taught me an added word for my monosyllabic repertoire i'd suggest you disabuse yourself of that archaic notion

problem is rusty they could tell me anything and i wouldnt have a clue !

There was no sign of any footbed other than the flat plastic bit.

Im going to ring castleford today and ask for a fitting there, so what they come up with.

You know it makes sense.

i guess my point is that in many cases the response is merely a puzzled expression on a bootfitter's face.

ramp angle is the angle created inside the boot by the boot board. it essentially opens or closes your ankle much like a heel lift. delta angle is the angle of the base of the boot. the delta angle is impacted by the heel and toe lugs of the boot much like a pair of high heeled womans shoes or by the built in heights of a binding.

why does any of this matter? balance.

it is very difficult to make any sort of over the internet diagnosis. orthotics or footbeds are a start. there are huge arguments re "posted" vs. "non-posted" footbeds. posting is akin to a fence post or shoring up a house on stilts. if one pronates, material is built up under the foot. the rational becomes a little difficult from here.

if you can describe where your foot hurts a bootfitter will attempt to mitigate the issue. if it is a pressure point there are two answers. one is to warm the boot and after essentially opening it to the point where it looks like it is inside out, utilizing a tool to grind/polish and create room. the other process is to warm and "punch" the shell in order to create volume.

i would not utilize "heel lifts". they will change the ramp angle and decrease volume.

can't any BASI members here recommend a boot fitter? one answer might well be to call BASI and ask for a recommended list. another option contact distributors or reps for the boot companies and talk to their sale rep.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Rusty Guy,

I can recommend boot fitters - but they're all based in Europe! Not aware of any in Manchester where Royal is based. In fact, of the 2 people I know who've had boots fiited in Manchester both have had to go to a bootfitter in resort for alterations. But then you do often need changes made after you've skied in them. Problem with getting your boots in the UK is you can't go back to the same bootfitter half way through your holiday in the Alps...but you don't want the holiday ruined by painful boots.

A snowHead

Rusty Guy, yes heel lifts will indeed change ramp angle, they will also decrease volume slightly but if you have the volume above the instep that's not a problem, they will however relieve pressure on flat feet something that just does not seem to work even with custom moulded insoles, as someone who suffers with flatish feet this difference can have a huge effect on comfort

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

D G Orf, you will have to explain to me how adding anything to the interior of the boot will reduce volume. the most typical use for heel lifts involves women who "typically" have calf muscles that attach "lower" on the leg to the achilles tendon. heel lifts are utilized to temporarily lift a sore bruised muscle out of the vessel that is containing it. i utilized quotes around the word typical because in terms of morphology i don't know that there is typical.

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Rusty Guy, um volume = available internal space, if you put in heel lifts you loose a bit of space for the foot thus decrease available volume. If I have a glass that holds 1 pint in volume and I glue in a golf ball the glass will no longer be able to hold a pint i.e its volume has decreased due to the addition of the golf ball.

By the way I agree totaly with your comment

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D G Orf, pardon my brain fart. for some reason i read your post and thought you were suggesting the opposite.

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Rusty Guy, that's ok it happens to me from time to time as well Laughing

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Lots of good advice above but there are two things worth considering before you spend any more money.

It totally agree about wearing boots in. It takes time and can be agony - you are lucky they only hurt when you are going up the poma.

if it really is the case that they only hurt on the lift have you considered how relaxed you are when you are riding it? A lot of people get pain in their boots because they are tensing their feet inside and this often happens when you don't even know it. How many times do people complain of their feet starting to hurt when they get on to a difficult slope, hit some ice or get in to bad vis? Just worth a thought anyway - you may just be letting one foot tense up on the way up the lift.

Also you could try loosening your boots slightly when you are on the lift. NOT telling you to undo them - my lawyers would kill me (!) but you can take the buckles back a notch or two until you have worn them in and then you can do them up again at the top.

Try these first and you might save yourself a bit of money on footbeds etc that are often poorly made by underexperienced sales staff.

After all it is free

I had problems with a painful 6th toe on both feet and have had my boots 'punched' out at the sides on a number of occasions, which has made an improvement. I find that the cold aggravates the pain no end, and the simplest things can help eg. loosening boots on chair lifts to increase circulation, wiggling toes for same reason, regularly brushing any hardened snow off boots. I also find that my boots hurt more when standing still and not in my skis eg. in crowded cable cars (one reason why I hate them!), so I regularly try to shift my position in these situations to keep the pressure off any particular part of the foot eg. lean into them for a while then change so more weight is one heels. Like a lot of people, I find that they rarely hurt when skiing and if they do it is usually poor technique on my part.

You might want to have a look at www.profeet.co.uk They are based at Kings Road, Fulham and do custon-fit insoles for skiers, cyclists, runners etc. Not used them myself, but a friend used them for running shoes and they solved all his problems. Not cheap though. Anyone else out there been to Profeet?

conor, agree with you about profeet. We've had lots of discussions on their merits - a quick search should bring them up if anyone's interested.

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thanks guys, Ive considered the tensing up bit and its probably true to a certain extent, cos it hurts i wiggle my toes and feet trying to stop it but it gets worse for the same reason.

Ive been quoted £45 for footbeds at ellis brighams im going to try them tomorrow see if it works.

Help!!

Painful feet

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