 Poster: A snowHead
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@La paix, The original Tommeuses was a T Bar, quite a thigh burner I imagine!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| @La paix, The original Tommeuses was a T Bar, quite a thigh burner I imagine! |
When did the chair replace it (roughly)?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| chocksaway wrote: |
| @La paix, The original Tommeuses was a T Bar, quite a thigh burner I imagine! |
When did the chair replace it (roughly)? |
It was a chair the first time I went there in 1985.
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| tarrantd wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| chocksaway wrote: |
| @La paix, The original Tommeuses was a T Bar, quite a thigh burner I imagine! |
When did the chair replace it (roughly)? |
It was a chair the first time I went there in 1985. |
Well, that explains why it was a Chairlift when I first went there in '92 (just before the Olympics). 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Who remembers the chairlift up to the Grande Mottes that used to go around a corner, very dramatically ! It’s marked ‘gh’ on this 1988 map.
https://skimap.org/data/790/2052/1480274447.jpg
It also shows the projected line of a replacement chair lift and the proposed Dome de Pramecou cable car which was on the piste map for years.
Who remembers the double gondola up to the glacier also on this map?
In those days the way to increase capacity was simply to double lifts up. So there were lots of double Pomas eg, Charvet (only need one member of staff!) and of course the impressive, at the time, double triple chair lift up Tommeuses.
I also remember a steep wall at the end of the glacier about where ‘28’ is on this map. I think it disappeared completely in the 1990s.
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About 87 when I first went to Val , there was a chair that went over from bottom of blue of the grand motte up towards Borsalino area into VAl and double drag that took back to tignes way . Am sure there was a drag from trifollet to top,of the old etorits chair as well .
Also there was a red run named cocaine in tignes down towards les brevieres
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| vipul wrote: |
| Also there was a red run named cocaine in tignes down towards les brevieres |
I remember Cocaine well but it disappeared for the 92 Olympics methinks - cleaning up their act!
Double bubbles up to Motte and the Mur on the way down (Espagnol and Letterbox now) but I don’t recall the kinky chair up starting from current Lanches.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The "Up and Over" chair was raised, as people would jump off it just before it went over the top and down the other side (to access the Off Piste). It took a lot of bravery and there were those that "chickened out", while their mates took the jump. I often saw the drama unfold in the chairs in front of me.
It's now too high to even contemplate it.
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| Peter S wrote: |
Who remembers the chairlift up to the Grande Mottes that used to go around a corner, very dramatically ! It’s marked ‘gh’ on this 1988 map.
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I certainly do.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Brilliant - Thanks.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@vipul, Cocaine became Silene (campion in English) in the clean up for the Olympics. There is still a piste marker bearing the name in Bou Le Le on the Rosset Promenade.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Old Fartbag, ah you can see the lifts around col de fresse I was referring to .
Going to miss espace killy next week , had to book Austria thanks to macron’s wisdom April 2019 since I last skied there . Hope to be back this Easter .
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The old Signal poma, with a 90 degree left turn & large increase in steepness just as your legs had gone numb.
The double Palafour chair - whichever one you chose was going to be the one that stopped!
Double Plan drag on the Grande Motte glacier in use 365 days/year. The Vanoise chair goes over its old route - largely rocks now.
And whatever happened to the planned Grapillon chair?
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Poster: A snowHead
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endoman - the Solaise Cable car - wasnt long ago it disappeared but remember also how you could jump from Solaise cable car across to Bellevarde cable car in that bottom station! Yes it was SOOOOO steep at the top - but easy to hike up to the Orientation Coloir entrance! But as Old Fartbag says no chance of downloading - these youngsters have it easy these days (haha!)
chocksaway - no I dont remember Tommeuse as a T Bar but I do remember it as a pair of chairs - I remember one year one liftie had his dog sat at the bottom and if you missed the chair or didnt move forward quick enough his dog would bark at you to 'hurry' up! Yes as you say La paid back the right horse! Based on those years of construction chocksaway its probably due (Tommeuse) an upgrade in the next decade eh! Great pics of the history of tommeuse there!
Peter S - no dont remember around the corner lift no / neither the double gondola to the glacier and no sign of that Pramecou lift ever materialised did it! That steep wall at end of glacier - you mean the tongue of the glacier - awesome and you could get to the letterbox that way couldnt you?
Grinning - Cocaine is still used locally.
Old Fartbag - jumping off the top of the up and over was 'the' thing to do yes!
vipul - with age comes wisdom all things skiing wise! But will miss you next week!
Kenzie - yes of course the old T Bar where the Vanoise is.... The Grapillon Chair - that would ruin that off piste area wouldnt it - people traversing in from the top of it and ending up in the lake at the bottom!
ONE MORE FOR EVERYONE - been great to reminisce.... any the drag on the front of Solaise from half way up! And no rumour of lifts would be complete without talking about the Bonneval gondola proposal to the Val glacier - will never happen but you never know, nice to dream!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The old Bellevarde cable car went higher than the current Olympique Gondola.
From the top of the old Bellevarde cable car there was a set of steps you could walk up to the very top of the mountain.
At the very top of Bellevarde you can still see the start hut for the 1992 Olympic and 2009 World Champs Mens Downhill Race.
Quizz - What is written on the side of the start hut?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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not sure if the picture res shows the Olympic results.
steps still there  and very handy for trips to Table d’Orientation.
Cracking view across to Pisteurs from there.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 19-01-22 22:49; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| welshflyer wrote: |
The old Bellevarde cable car went higher than the current Olympique Gondola.
From the top of the old Bellevarde cable car there was a set of steps you could walk up to the very top of the mountain.
At the very top of Bellevarde you can still see the start hut for the 1992 Olympic and 2009 World Champs Mens Downhill Race.
Quizz - What is written on the side of the start hut? |
Yup
Yup (they are still there)
Yup
As for the quiz.... hmm I dont know... one of:
"You first / after you / over my dead body"
"Pour la plaisir"
"Luc Alpand - le Champion"
"Crikey anyone got a spare pair of pants"
"Last one to the bottom buys the beers"
Am I right..... never knew anything was written on it
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The names of the three Olympic medallists - Patrick Ortlieb (Aut) won gold. No one ever remembers who came 2nd or 3rd.
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| welshflyer wrote: |
| The names of the three Olympic medallists - Patrick Ortlieb (Aut) won gold. No one ever remembers who came 2nd or 3rd. |
Sh*t I always had it in my mind it was Luc Alphand that won gold - doh
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Map from 1988 of the whole EK.
https://skimap.org/data/790/2205/1635583205.jpg
Note the four lifts on the Pissaillas glacier, the Solaise Poma, which looks as though it was originally reached by a chair or Poma under the Solaise cablecar (see 1972 map on ski map.org
So many double Pomas back in the 1970s. Before snowboarding became popular in the late 1980s some of the Pomas ran at speeds well in excess of 4m/s. Not much slower than a modern detachable chair! A regulation was then brought in limiting their speed to a max of 3.5m/s. After that and with their unsuitability for snowboarding the writing was on the wall and Poma drag lifts are today an endangered species.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Steve Angus,
The Grapillon lift would have ruined the off-piste there. A guide to Espace off-piste runs I bought in 2005 suggested to do Grapillon 'before they build the chairlift up to the ridge and ruin it'.
The views both ways from the ridge are spectacular, but the 'staircase' climb up the rear side of the ridge!!! I always did it as the last of the day as I'd be wringing wet with sweat by the top & that soon turned cold.
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| Peter S wrote: |
Map from 1988 of the whole EK.
https://skimap.org/data/790/2205/1635583205.jpg
Note the four lifts on the Pissaillas glacier, the Solaise Poma, which looks as though it was originally reached by a chair or Poma under the Solaise cablecar (see 1972 map on ski map.org
So many double Pomas back in the 1970s. Before snowboarding became popular in the late 1980s some of the Pomas ran at speeds well in excess of 4m/s. Not much slower than a modern detachable chair! A regulation was then brought in limiting their speed to a max of 3.5m/s. After that and with their unsuitability for snowboarding the writing was on the wall and Poma drag lifts are today an endangered species. |
Fascinating.... yes I think we can all remember the 'cartoon sketch' images of fast poma lifts where you grab it and it accelerates at 100mph and you shoot out your skis onto your face - been there done that!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Kenzie wrote: |
@Steve Angus,
The Grapillon lift would have ruined the off-piste there. A guide to Espace off-piste runs I bought in 2005 suggested to do Grapillon 'before they build the chairlift up to the ridge and ruin it'.
The views both ways from the ridge are spectacular, but the 'staircase' climb up the rear side of the ridge!!! I always did it as the last of the day as I'd be wringing wet with sweat by the top & that soon turned cold. |
Indeed. Yes I've got that in one of my guide books! The staircase climb up the back is hot work indeed.... when I did my ISIA Off Piste exam back in 2003 one of the guys failed on fitness on that ascent - I seem to remember as a group we were sent ahead to secure a rope anchor at the tope and then throw the end down to the guy concerned and our assessor and between a push and a pull we got him up there.... queue an hour of getting cold at the top as we got sorted!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Steve Angus,
I didn't realise Luc Alphand was racing back in 1992, I thought he was racing more recently. My memory is going (old age I guess).
The Hotel Montana in Oberlech (Arlberg, near St Anton) has the Olympic Rings on the front of it because it is owned by Patrick Ortlieb. The Krazy Kangaru in St Anton has the Olympic Rings because it's owned by Mario Matt (or was it his brother who won Olympic Gold).
I wonder if John Kuchera has his name on the Bellevarde start hut after he won the World Champs Downhill in 2009?
Both Ortlieb and Kuchera had the advantage of early starts in the colder conditons.
The view from the very top of Bellevarde looking down on Val d'isere is amazing.
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| Grinning wrote: |
not sure if the picture res shows the Olympic results.
steps still there and very handy for trips to Table d’Orientation.
Cracking view across to Pisteurs from there. |
@Steve Angus, I too have a mental block about Alphand and the 92 Olympic downhill, I remember Ortleib going gold but I have this fixation that Alphand medalled (but he didn’t).
The names of the medalist and details of the course are stencilled on the side of the start hut. Each year there are fewer letters remaining.
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You know it makes sense.
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welshflyer
Yes 88, 92 and 94 Olympics he went to.
Your memory of the weather on those days is excellent! And yes the view is awesome up there.
Local legends in lots of resorts get their names here, there and everywhere. If Clement Noel carries on as he is then everyone wonders if they might rename the Face the 'Noel' piste... or something like that! Haha!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Grinning wrote: |
| Grinning wrote: |
not sure if the picture res shows the Olympic results.
steps still there and very handy for trips to Table d’Orientation.
Cracking view across to Pisteurs from there. |
@Steve Angus, I too have a mental block about Alphand and the 92 Olympic downhill, I remember Ortleib going gold but I have this fixation that Alphand medalled (but he didn’t).
The names of the medalist and details of the course are stencilled on the side of the start hut. Each year there are fewer letters remaining. |
So my suggestions of:
"You first / after you / over my dead body"
"Pour la plaisir"
"Luc Alpand - le Champion"
"Crikey anyone got a spare pair of pants"
"Last one to the bottom buys the beers"
were way out 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Only slightly off beam: @Steve Angus 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Grinning - I could go on with the conversations that might have done on at the top of the mountain on those race days..... (perhaps silent thoughts like "wish I had chosen a different sport" ")
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gone on at the top
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lets start a little 'hidden gem' place / spot / lift / view for the whole EK area - a place you just can't get enough of for whatever reason? Lets keep it on the mountain as opposed to a bar / restaurant otherwise it'll go way off topic.
My favourites when we lived in Val was walking the dog on the Traverse du Laisinant and watching the sunrise. The northern view from The Cascade chair on the glacier, over Col Pers to Mont Blanc in the distance. But the view from top of Madeleine is still enchanting!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can't remember the name of it now but we miss the button drag that took you back up the pitch behind the Folie. It was popular with training groups too. We usually skied it either during or after a dump of snow. (often when the vis' was bad) That pitch usually holds fresh snow pretty well and we would lap round until we were knackered.`
And we were spectating at the "Worlds". The "Face to Face" Championship. Men on Bellevarde sector, Ladies on Solaise. Was it really 2009?
A few things stick in the mind. Herman Maier sipping coffee at the next table at the Resto top left of Fontaine Froid.
Chatting with Finley Mickle at the finish enclosure after training on Face. He played it down and said the real heroes were the guys of the Bell Brothers era who'd raced down the Face de B' with minimal safety netting in place and airbags not in use back then.
Going up Solaise and watching pisteurs who had dug down to access a water feed spraying the slope with water from a fire hose.
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@GeorgeVII,Semanaille, or something like that. Or semolina to the small hairdresser!
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@Steve Angus,
I think the book on the left is the one I had - bought in my 1st season in Tignes - it did sterling service for four seasons and beyond. Handy for putting in rucksack with avalanche kit/squeezing into jacket pocket.
I ended up giving it to the staff of The Tignes Chalet Company in lieu of a tip after an very early December trip a few years back.
Their entire crew spent the week hanging around 'our' place as the only one that week with guests - me plus four guys doing BASI! I'd been pestered all week about where to ski off-piste by said staff (even though they'd yet to get their season passes). They were made up with the book - hope they made as much use of it as I did.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Reminds me I need to dig out my books, not a clue where they are! Have a very old version of the Bonnevie one, and the new Tignes one. I'll certainly look out for the Val one when we are over.
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GeorgeVII - yes it was / is a great pitch and the ESF in particular were up in arms when it had to be pulled out for the new La Daille gondola. It was the Semamille lift yes chocksaway. It was 2009 the champs yes! Wont be long until Val / Tignes turn comes around again!
Kenzie - the old version had a white cover on it! It is a pocket size (although quite thick yes). Has really (well the original version anyway) useless descriptions like "go around the rock on the left behind the old tree that was removed last year and the rocks that are buried by snow in Winter" - really unhelpful descriptions like that in it! Handing down books like that is what it is all about. My original version of my book (not shown in the pic) has all my original hand written notes in it along with notes I took at an early days Henry Avalanche Talk season along with dates and time I first skied some of the routes - that can be a family heir loom! But yea handing it down to the next generation is what it is all about!
endoman - they usually sell all the books like this in the newsagents next to Snowberry. A little treat on your hols!
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FAQ
