 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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probably also a good investment at 1/4 of their price.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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safe? perhaps financially, but if they go under before you go on your holiday?
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Hmm.
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| However, people who have only booked a flight with the company will not be covered by the Atol scheme and are advised to buy suitable travel insurance. |
Your decision on what you call 'safe' I suppose. That's a heck of a share price drop. They've not gone for a rights issue, and it will be interesting to see what the banks (and our own Bode Swiller) have to say.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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achilles,
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will be interesting to see what the banks (and our own Bode Swiller) have to say.
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yep the banks are not looking at anything to do with tourisum very kindley at the moment 
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| achilles wrote: |
Hmm.
| Quote: |
| However, people who have only booked a flight with the company will not be covered by the Atol scheme and are advised to buy suitable travel insurance. |
Your decision on what you call 'safe' I suppose. That's a heck of a share price drop. They've not gone for a rights issue, and it will be interesting to see what the banks (and our own Bode Swiller) have to say. |
So, I'm now owned  - I hope you don't have one of those Austrian-style cellars.
Anyway, I reckon they're safe as a UK entity and, if not, most of their brands are desirable so would get snapped up. Their latest probs seem to stem from their French operation where austerity measures are beginning to bite. Us Brits by and large keep on travelling. But "Hmmmm" indeed. Even Thos Cook's own travel insurance brand (essential Travel) only covers Scheduled Airline Failure and as far as I'm concerned, Thos Cook Airways are a charter operation. Their advice is a little bit errrrr iffy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stanton, slightly illiterate polemic. So what?
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I see the MD will get a 1 million golden goodbye, nothing succeeds like failure, it would seem. Their share price has gone from 260p to 7p in a year. I would say they are doomed unless Lloyds, their principal lender, can find some spare change down the back of the sofa.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If they get given more cash I'd imagine they'll be put in to some kind of restructuring plan (if they're not already there).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| davidof wrote: |
| I see the MD will get a 1 million golden goodbye, nothing succeeds like failure, it would seem. Their share price has gone from 260p to 7p in a year. I would say they are doomed unless Lloyds, their principal lender, can find some spare change down the back of the sofa. |
Where would we be without people who can take nearly a billion quid and turn it into virtually nothing.
Equally, I wonder what kind of thought process you have to go through to come to the conclusion that lending a travel agent nearly a billion pounds is a good idea.
Still as usual the taxpayer is good for it. Another bail out for the banks and we're standing behind ATOL as well. Good job the deficit is under control then *cough*.
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So ....
In my position as Senior Sales Executive (Lift Tickets) I am responsible for about 500€. If I bet it all on a horse and lose the lot I will be fired, prosecuted and probably out of a job for the rest of my life.
If, on the other hand, I were in charge of a bank and responsible for five terabillions instead, I could splurge the lot on dodgy gambles and either a) remain in post, demand government handouts and lobby for the abolition of minimum wage or b) retire on a huge pension which I would then triple via part time 'consultancy' work, though it's hard to see why people would want to consult me given my less than impressive track record unless they were looking for advice on how not to do it.
How does that work then?
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You know it makes sense.
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Lizzard,
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How does that work then?
_________________
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If you find the answer to that one pm me with it please 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I am responsible for about 500€.
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Lizzard, wooooooweeee!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bode Swiller, it weighs heavily on my mind, I can tell you. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lizzard, I was thinking it was too much
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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and you wouldn't be able to get an injunction preventing the Les Deux Alpes Times from reporting that you were also shagging one of your colleagues (obviously hypothetically)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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A key question is how a company with roughly £20 million net annual profit was allowed to build up a £1 billion debt.
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Do Thomas Cook not have to have assets to cover the debt? I highly doubt they have 900 million in assets!?! **** is wrong with people!
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Timmaah, their last group accounts show total assets of £6.9 billion but liabilities of £5.2 billion - so net assets of £1.7 billion before all the latest trading revelations. The group turnover nudging £9 billion and they appear to have had a banking facility in place of over a billion for some time. It's certainly a lot of dosh but this is a huge worldwide group with massive cash flows.
The share price fall is an issue for peeps like Lloyds Banking Group who owned 9% of the shares! Hey, don't us tax payers own a chunck of that then?
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Thomas Cook have a lot of aircraft. If they are owned rather than leased, a lot of the assets will be tied up in those. Owned or not, if they have not been flying with high load factors with good revenue per passenger, the aircraft will have been loss generators.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well if they wern't already going under they will now.......With this much negative publicity I can't see to many people booking with them, and bookings drying up will kill off a tour operator in double quick time.
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Bode Swiller, gven my numeracy skills, anything over 10€ is probably a bit dodgy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have about £600 invested in them for next summers USA trip
i hope its all sorted before i part with the other £4k in April
by the way isn't Neilson part of the TC group
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There is a general thread in which Thomas Cook share price fall has been charted here:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=77382&start=0
It is not just the £900m debt which is the problem. The company also has a very large final salary pension scheme deficit, which with the recent falls in equity prices and rises in gilt prices, may be significantly worse because of the investments held in the pension scheme.
My out of date figures put the deficit at £400m (September 2009), but more recent press speculation put the deficit closer to £1 billion in the pension scheme.
That means that there is almost £2 billion owed by Thomas Cook, and it's market capitalisation is less than £100m. The net tangible assets it holds on its balance sheet were -£2.46 per share at the last balance sheet. (last year end)
That means each shareholder owed £2.46 for each share held when you deducted all the tangible assets from the debts. Of course, there are some intangible assets, and that was why the share price was above zero. However, as the cash flow crisis and debt mountain increases, the intangible assets tend towards zero as there are no overall buyers for Thomas Cook. The company is too large and diverse for one company to take the lot.
The only solution is for the consortium of lending banks, to become the new equity owners in a debt for equity swap.
Either that, or the banks could lend some more money, and create the illusion of an independent company not being run by banks.
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So I shouldn't buy some shares in them then?
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You know it makes sense.
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I was just in First Choice getting some Euro and they have had a trading warning today about TC
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| livetoski wrote: |
| I was just in First Choice getting some Euro ... |
Why??? They are not exactly known for offering the best rate....
But if it's an emergency...
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Poster: A snowHead
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b]Lizzard[/b],
Thats like the Irish big wig government accountant type - miscounted the beans by a mere 3.6 BILLION albeit on the right side and guess what - he's put forward for a top post on the E.U. Board of Auditors (presume these supervise the govt accountants) or something similar - fair balls to them for rejecting him but the Irish Govt can't believe it !!!!! Nuts or what -
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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briand6868, don't forget the German fella who miscounted by €55bn.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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RobW, its my local one and they always give me a good rate  well they always match the best rate on offer
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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livetoski, Sounds good. What's your secret?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RobW, its my local one and they always give me a good rate well they always match the best rate on offer
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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This just in (TravelMole):
| Quote: |
Thomas Cook secures bank loan
Thomas Cook Group has managed to get a £200m loan from its banks and has thanked its partners, suppliers and customers for their support over the last few days.
Issuing a statement late on Friday evening, it said it has secured the cash until 30 April 2013, replacing the £100m short-term loan announced on 21 October 2011.
In addition, its banks have agreed a further relaxation of the financial covenants under the existing facilities.
This, said Thomas Cook, provides it with "much increased headroom to deal with unexpected events and the effects of an uncertain economic environment".
It said a strategic review is planned to help the board reduce the company's debt and reach a more "appropriate capital structure" over time. |
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That should postpone the debt for equity swap for a short while. Meantime, the company can get on with selling some assets.
The share price will rise on this news, but should you buy a share which has a massive debt burden and who has just agreed more debt? In the long term it is not a good prospect, but if you bought at 10p you might be able to sell at 25p or 30p on Monday!
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27p at 8.05 Monday morning (a 50% rise). Will it rise further or fall?
I suspect there will be more sellers than buyers at this price!
Going down!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Down it went, and down some more. 16.7 p now. This is a bit like Greece. They are in the position of having an enormous debt burden, and not really have the income to pay it off.
The solution, the banks lend some more to them!
Would you buy shares in that? The banks who lent to them will be!
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FAQ
