 Poster: A snowHead
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Soooo.....It's that time of year again and am looking to update the quiver for the coming season and the anticipated backcountry missions. In Scotland for once, hoping to tick off a few of the lines that have been looking at in the unknown. Thinking remote and quiet with steep, fast, technical, albeit it probably relatively short, descents.
Last year I got myself a set of the much acclaimed Whitedot Ragnaroks, a hard charging and powerful ski, and was pretty disappointed to be honest. Found them heavy, cumbersome and never got into big enough or deep enough terrain anywhere in europe to take advantage of the width and stability they offer. So I'm looking to downgrade to what in my mind seems to be the sweet spot in the new search for the correct width of ski, around the 100/110 mm underfoot width. Will end up with two sets of holes, one for the Rossi XXL bindings and one for Dukes.
I like a ski that skis hard. Previously have enjoyed the Dynastar legend range and had a shot on a set of Moment Garbones a couple of seasons ago which I should have bought at the time but my procrastination sadly let that chance slide by. I come from a race background and thus like a ski that can be driven, the current rocker everything trend leaves me a bit bewildered because it seems that pivoting and slarving and smearing ones way down the mountain is a very blazee way of skiing for the most part. Positive camber underfoot and maybe a little early tip rise is what I am looking for I think. A stiff tail is nice, good to know you have the full length of the ski to work with and that you can drive the end of the turn through to the heels and know that the last 50cm of the ski ain't made of marshmallows.
Have come up with a bit of a short list and looking for some input. Has anyone skied any of them and has an opinion? Did I miss out any skis that fit the bill? Is there exceptionally good vibes about any one of them in particular? Which ski would you buy, with or without decent reason.
CoreUPT R110 193cm
134/110/124 R:36
Moment Belafonte 192cm
135/106/124 R:29
Dynastar Legend 105 Pro Rider 192cm
132/105/122 R:27
DPS Wailer 105 188cm
131/105/118 R:29
Praxis Freeride 194cm
135/107/125 R:28
La Sportiva Hi5 188cm
135/105/125 R:24
Kastle FX104
??/104/?? R:26
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Movement Goliath 191 (now dscontinued but you should be able to pick up a new set somewhere). Or their effective replacement, the new Movement Trust. I have the Goliaths (I'm pretty heavy), they're very stiff but a lot of fun, and not that heavy (plenty light enough for day tours up north certainly). I have never and will likely never be good enough to find their limit - they absoulutely love to charge, if you're big enough or good enough (big in my case  ) to get them going they're a hoot.
Dont know the Trust other than they seem to have replaced the Goliaths although have some different geometry and aint quite as stiff apparently, just going by other quality I know from Movement, they should be top notch.
DPS Wailer 112RP (in the hybrid not pure - probably better for variable touring snow etc) would also seem like a great tool for what you describe too.
the new Kastle skis look very interesting
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| Movement Goliath 191 (now dscontinued but you should be able to pick up a new set somewhere). |
barry, The Goliath looks a nice ski and seems to still be available through some online retailers, good call. Its been added to the list!
Have looked into the Trust and it seems that Movement have done the same with these skis as Moment did to get from the Garbone to the M1 to the Belafonte. What Moment said, was that for most people, a competition stiff ski is too much to handle on a daily basis and no fun because you have to work too hard to get the ski to do anything, so they softened it up until every Bill and Bob on their third weeks ski holiday were content with being able to flex it and then renamed it the Belafonte.
Disappointing to see a niche ski being mellowed out to increase sales, especially from an independant company like Moment. Rossi did the same with their pro model freeride ski(I forget the name) which they discontinued so they could focus on making skis which would appeal more to the mass market but didn't expect the same from the smaller companies that swear they are making skis for the skiers. The new Director ski from Whitedot seems to be doing a similar thing, taking the extreme rocker and width of the Redeemer, a design which is targeted at big powder days and proper sidecountry trees etc and putting it into a normal sized ski so Bill can slarve the pistes without any technical know how on his new rockered platform. Do people seriously enjoy skiing a rockered ski on piste, its awful, its like driving a massive american automatic with more cup holders than wheels, it just screams 'I don't care, I'm just here for the sunshine and the hot chocolates!'
| Quote: |
| This is what you described almost to a tee |
Neilski, Looks good man. Have you skied any of the Kastle range? It is a brand I have never stood on. I have an incling that it is super underrated and its skis look good, I just know nothing of them! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| flintstoner wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Movement Goliath 191 (now dscontinued but you should be able to pick up a new set somewhere). |
barry, The Goliath looks a nice ski and seems to still be available through some online retailers, good call. Its been added to the list!
Have looked into the Trust and it seems that Movement have done the same with these skis as Moment did to get from the Garbone to the M1 to the Belafonte. What Moment said, was that for most people, a competition stiff ski is too much to handle on a daily basis and no fun because you have to work too hard to get the ski to do anything, so they softened it up until every Bill and Bob on their third weeks ski holiday were content with being able to flex it and then renamed it the Belafonte.
Disappointing to see a niche ski being mellowed out to increase sales, especially from an independant company like Moment. Rossi did the same with their pro model freeride ski(I forget the name) which they discontinued so they could focus on making skis which would appeal more to the mass market but didn't expect the same from the smaller companies that swear they are making skis for the skiers. The new Director ski from Whitedot seems to be doing a similar thing, taking the extreme rocker and width of the Redeemer, a design which is targeted at big powder days and proper sidecountry trees etc and putting it into a normal sized ski so Bill can slarve the pistes without any technical know how on his new rockered platform. Do people seriously enjoy skiing a rockered ski on piste, its awful, its like driving a massive american automatic with more cup holders than wheels, it just screams 'I don't care, I'm just here for the sunshine and the hot chocolates!'
| Quote: |
| This is what you described almost to a tee |
Neilski, Looks good man. Have you skied any of the Kastle range? It is a brand I have never stood on. I have an incling that it is super underrated and its skis look good, I just know nothing of them! |
Yeah, I can see how you might think that about the new Director but in reality thats not the case, the smaller platform of the Director over the Redeemer comes from a couple of design suggestions from our pro team. The smaller platform gives the Director certain advantages: from our freestyle guys the reduced width and mass makes for a "spinnier" platform off BC kickers, and gives them a ski to ride and jib the pow in the morning and hit the park. There was also a call, again from the pro's and from ourselves for a twin rocker that would be easier on the skin tracks and more manageable on steeper skin traverses, whilst being manoevrable in tight terrain.
Focusing purely on the hard snow advantages the Director, the twin rocker gives you a platform that you can have fun on in changeable conditions, the kind of day where its snowed but difficult to judge how much (generally Mayrhofen last season ; ) , and you can take a ski up that works nicely in pow and cruddy conditions, rides switch pow sooooo easily, but can work jibbing and skiing the piste aswell. Its also worth noting that the Director is actually stiffer than the Redeemer and has a 27m turn radius, hardly the mark of a watered down piste orientated model.
Hope this comes across as intended, just kind of FYI and not all arsey and defensive 
Peace and elbow grease, Paul
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flintstoner, i ski kastle's MX 88 as my everyday do it all ski, and its alround quality is superb , i have just bought a pair of 2011 MX 108 , in the ski show sale , they are now mounted and ready to go, we are off to japan on a powder tour in feb , but hope to get some use out of the earlier in the season too. the best place to read up on the kastle range is over on TGR or epic as the yanks have taken kastle 's to heart and they are highly rated. chris davenport is one of thier pro's so i guess that says something. I wasnt sure about the new rocker technology but after loads of research i liked the idea of an early rise tip , with the dual radius side cut and a regular tail , it has a low camber which i hope will make the skis easy to swing round in the trees in hakuba . I went for last years model as i think the mx range is superior to the bmx skis.
the one thing thts undeniable about the skis is the build quality, its seriously good and they build a ski to last , my 88's are now three years old and feel as good as when they were new. godd luck with your search 
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| the_doc wrote: |
| flintstoner wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Movement Goliath 191 (now dscontinued but you should be able to pick up a new set somewhere). |
barry, The Goliath looks a nice ski and seems to still be available through some online retailers, good call. Its been added to the list!
Have looked into the Trust and it seems that Movement have done the same with these skis as Moment did to get from the Garbone to the M1 to the Belafonte. What Moment said, was that for most people, a competition stiff ski is too much to handle on a daily basis and no fun because you have to work too hard to get the ski to do anything, so they softened it up until every Bill and Bob on their third weeks ski holiday were content with being able to flex it and then renamed it the Belafonte.
Disappointing to see a niche ski being mellowed out to increase sales, especially from an independant company like Moment. Rossi did the same with their pro model freeride ski(I forget the name) which they discontinued so they could focus on making skis which would appeal more to the mass market but didn't expect the same from the smaller companies that swear they are making skis for the skiers. The new Director ski from Whitedot seems to be doing a similar thing, taking the extreme rocker and width of the Redeemer, a design which is targeted at big powder days and proper sidecountry trees etc and putting it into a normal sized ski so Bill can slarve the pistes without any technical know how on his new rockered platform. Do people seriously enjoy skiing a rockered ski on piste, its awful, its like driving a massive american automatic with more cup holders than wheels, it just screams 'I don't care, I'm just here for the sunshine and the hot chocolates!'
| Quote: |
| This is what you described almost to a tee |
Neilski, Looks good man. Have you skied any of the Kastle range? It is a brand I have never stood on. I have an incling that it is super underrated and its skis look good, I just know nothing of them! |
Yeah, I can see how you might think that about the new Director but in reality thats not the case, the smaller platform of the Director over the Redeemer comes from a couple of design suggestions from our pro team. The smaller platform gives the Director certain advantages: from our freestyle guys the reduced width and mass makes for a "spinnier" platform off BC kickers, and gives them a ski to ride and jib the pow in the morning and hit the park. There was also a call, again from the pro's and from ourselves for a twin rocker that would be easier on the skin tracks and more manageable on steeper skin traverses, whilst being manoevrable in tight terrain.
Focusing purely on the hard snow advantages the Director, the twin rocker gives you a platform that you can have fun on in changeable conditions, the kind of day where its snowed but difficult to judge how much (generally Mayrhofen last season ; ) , and you can take a ski up that works nicely in pow and cruddy conditions, rides switch pow sooooo easily, but can work jibbing and skiing the piste aswell. Its also worth noting that the Director is actually stiffer than the Redeemer and has a 27m turn radius, hardly the mark of a watered down piste orientated model.
Hope this comes across as intended, just kind of FYI and not all arsey and defensive
Peace and elbow grease, Paul |
A very interesting read, thanks. Can see that for a particular type of skier or skiing they have their purpose. Combining park and side country(if I can get away with using such an americanism) seems to be what they are aiming at basically. I wasn't meaning to put the ski down, it just isn't for me. I am sure the pivotability of it in the trees whilst going from one 'booter' to the the next is a big attraction for people. I am intruiged that the pro's are asking for a rockered ski for freestyle too, I have seen the buttering into spins off drops and powder hits where it would be a benefit but other than that I wonder why they are looking for rocker. Is it purely the ability to get a days skiing in where you can ride pow in the morning and then the park in the afternoon. How are rails on a rockered ski? Can imagine that adding an element of difficulty to it.
| Neilski wrote: |
flintstoner, i ski kastle's MX 88 as my everyday do it all ski, and its alround quality is superb , i have just bought a pair of 2011 MX 108 , in the ski show sale , they are now mounted and ready to go, we are off to japan on a powder tour in feb , but hope to get some use out of the earlier in the season too. the best place to read up on the kastle range is over on TGR or epic as the yanks have taken kastle 's to heart and they are highly rated. chris davenport is one of thier pro's so i guess that says something. I wasnt sure about the new rocker technology but after loads of research i liked the idea of an early rise tip , with the dual radius side cut and a regular tail , it has a low camber which i hope will make the skis easy to swing round in the trees in hakuba . I went for last years model as i think the mx range is superior to the bmx skis.
the one thing thts undeniable about the skis is the build quality, its seriously good and they build a ski to last , my 88's are now three years old and feel as good as when they were new. godd luck with your search |
I like your thinking. I am settling into the fact that for the majority of my skiing I enjoy a ski with regular camber underfoot and an early tip rise, a stiff regular tail and proper sidewalls. You have seriously whetted my appetite for those MX108s. I had a brief browse on TGR for info and found a handful of relevant reading and reviews and opinions. It has been added to my reading list and I will probably spend this week at work perusing the lot.  Cheers for the feedback from everyone.
Top of the pile seems to be the DPS, Dynastar, Kastle and CoreUpt skis. Have skied a lot of Dynastars before and love them, but they are predictable and solid as houses, which almost works against them. They never seem to surprise me. When I got on the Garbones they blew my mind and I would buy a set in a flash if I could find some, but I can't. DPS get nothing but great praise from everywhere I look, the build quality seems to be unrivalled. CoreUpt is very hard to find much info on but originated from the same factory as Dynastar before splitting in their own direction, is the only ski on my list I have never seen in person. Kastle is sneakily rising up as a bit of an underdog.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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flintstoner,
| Quote: |
Have looked into the Trust and it seems that Movement have done the same with these skis
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I have skied the new Trust and the Goliath, the Trust is a much more versitle ski than the Goliath ever was. It is still a pretty stiff ski with the flat tail but the tip rocker or earlt rise depending on the marketing hype really makes it work across more snow conditions than the Goliath did. It will charge very well, it has the stiffness to do that. There is more of a write up on my review pages on Snowshepherd \/
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just reading a German Alpinist Mag and they had a touring ski test and the kastle FX range got the vote for in the over 80mm range for its edge hold and hard charging fun.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ON3P Wrenegade, Faction 13 and 4FRNT EHP may be worth looking into (although a little fatter than you were looking for). Maybe PM Gear Bro's too.
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You know it makes sense.
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flintstoner great list of skis. You wont go wrong with any of them.
Agree that 100-110mm with tip only rocker is the perfect european off piste tool. Add the K2 sidestash (188cm) to your shopping list - used then last winter, real winner. K2 have nailled the concept of subtle tip only rocker with the backside series.
FWIW - my understanding is that the Movement Trust isnt exactly a waterdown Goliath. Skis like the Goliath (and also Dynastar XXL) were basically unrefined stiff crowbars. There are more versatile skis available that will be easier in bumps, trees, piste etc. The Goliath is a great ski *but* lots of work and very unforgiving - not exactly a ski you might enjoy every day what ever the snow conditions (bit like the WD Ragnarouk).
Doug.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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^^^^ theres been some seriously sweet suggestions for skis here, personally I'd love to get the chance to test the ON3P, PM Gear and Kastle range, beautiful skis all!
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FAQ
