 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That sucks. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It got the cogs turning alot this last winter, seen it and tried it. Then went back to our store, used a standard plug plastic, a hotter oven and some compression bags used by pisteurs when you break your leg or arm. Worked well. Conclusion, Fischer haven't done too much to "Change the Game." A new Bi-Co-Polymer that is supposed to be 25% lighter and less effected by temperature change, perhaps, however that reads 25% less durable to me, we'll wait and see. We won't be doing it this winter, but we can emulate the process, and we won't be emulating the process because we're happy with the turnaround and speed of our current systems.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The interesting thing will to see how the other manufacturers deal with it. To be honest it's just as gimmicky as Custom Shell from Salomon, but everyone will soon have their own "Ultra-Custom-System" us bootfitters don't much care, every boot is custom, these products are to service the less tecnical outlets to help with the bootfitting experience. That said Fischer are making sure their product goes to the best bootfitters apparently, but I've also heard that that's certainly not the case the world over.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, three posts within minute throwing cold water on what appears to be a great new product and fitting technology... must be something in it Lets see if fischer sells it in the flatland countries outside of resorts
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skimottaret, It's what we do, nothing i'd like more than to be knocking out a simple system and fitting the masses at around 600-700 euros a punt. Didn't help that the guy doing the fitting here in France had never fitted boots and oversized most people at the first demonstration I saw, then there was a load distortion due to over tightening the buckles, the shell didn't cool correctly and the canting became all oval. The product can work real well i'm sure in the right hands, a bit like injection liners, however this system has too many potential flaws at the hands of the user and think that so many will get it wrong compared to those that do it right it could be a white Elephant, prove me wrong and i'll be happy, spend 700 euros and as long as they don't hurt, I guess you're not going to say a bad word about it. I reckon conventional boots will do the job just as well and last longer for less money. That said you don't get the thrill of standing up high in a shop with all the attention on you like Jonny Big Potatoes then though  As I say, my concerns are durability, so we'll have to wait and see.
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skimottaret, We have though just introduced Fischer to our range for next winter, the convention Plug Freeride boots, they are simply the best looking boot ever seen, great plastics, good shape, so well done Fischer. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, Indeed
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Arrrrggghhh!!! Sunglasses somebody - quick!!
And someone is actually going to wear that!
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Megamum, Hopefully around 40 people that leave our shop!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Or you can try the Ladies Version too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The promo video in the other thread shows the process still includes a liner. From what I read this seems to me the 'weak point' in any fitting system. No matter how well you can the shell to fit in most/all? cases won't you still be left with a liner that over a relatively short space of time compacts down (I've read load of threads that mention this,) and therefore a boot that then requires the skills of the fitter to make 'snug again?
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Seems to me a win win, experienced fitters like you will always be in demand and you will spend less time tweaking boots to get a good shell fit. As a punter i place more importance on the skill involved in correctly diagnosing the need for footbeds and the fitter expertly making them as well as the initial sizing and getting the alignment right. BUT, if could then buy a very stiff tight shell that eliminated the need for grinding and stretching and the torture involved in getting a performance fit i think they are onto something. As you say time will tell on the new polymers but i dont see this as a gimmick, seems well thought through and offers a range of flex ratings and volumes depending on the user preferences.. be interesting to see if this will work with custom liners like zipfits or injection moulded or if they are made redundant as well...
I dont know enough to say a good or bad word about it but i think it a stretch to assume that conventional boot plastic will last longer and do the job just as well.. materials have improved consistently over the years and this could just be a revolutionary step forward... we shall see
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, So simply put, we'll have the boots (harder plastic perhaps???) we have an oven (40° hotter than the 80° one Fischer sell with their Vacuum boots) and we have the compression bags and a huge walk in fridge to cool them down. Net result, we didn't have to order large quantities of an unproven product and we don't need to spend 5 grand on fussy kit we already have. Booooom
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, Take a sheet of paper, roll it into a tube, now reduce the circumference by tightening the roll, now what happens to all that extra over lap? The opposite for a higher volume foot. I'll leave you now, in the capable hands of the Emperors Tailors, they're very good apparently.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, sounds good business sense! The ladies version is easier on the eye, but the mens one will certainly grab the attention in the lift queue - I bet when I spot one I'll think of this thread and that piccy 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum, Well if it works, we'll think about it again next winter, until then, such is my way i'll critique it until I can prove, to myself, that it is in my customer's interests to sell them something for 700 euros. Until then, I have a 120 flex version at 300 euros less and will undertake any fitting work for free, now that
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Seems to me a win win
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, one or two of you colleagues on epic who have skied these boots uniformly praise them but perhaps they are more open to change, taking risks and are willing to stay at the cutting edge. Then again the wait and see approach works for some people..
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| skimottaret, Take a sheet of paper, roll it into a tube, now reduce the circumference by tightening the roll, now what happens to all that extra over lap? The opposite for a higher volume foot. I'll leave you now, in the capable hands of the Emperors Tailors, they're very good apparently. |
it appears they will offer these in different lasts so I'm not sure what point you are making.. those clip things that they put on boots tend to tighten up the roll just fine even on the Emperor's boots
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Damn 
When I read the title I was expecting the holy grail in ski boots, Ski boots that are soft for non skiing but at the flip of a switch they stiffen up for skiing.
TBH I don't see this been much of a difference to what appends now, it's just a different way of customising.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, I've heard more bad than good, tried them myself, as it goes I'm happy to see others sell them for now, as I say to order such quantities of a product that may have durability issues would do more harm than good to our business. Perhaps you see this as a radical change, using heat to mould a boot around a foot, been doing it myself for a few weeks now and feel that in the most cases local stretches will still be required for big problem areas, so in effect you'll have payed over the odds for something that may last less long and still have to spend as much time around people like us. I'm sure they will offer them in different lasts, it's just a different plastic to add into the system no "game change" there either. The only game change I see here is a lighter weight-shorter lifespan worm used to catch a FISCHER.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 21-08-11 16:53; edited 1 time in total
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Dwarf Vader, Learned well you have young Jedi.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, what bad have you heard other than speculation that the materials wont stand up long term ? the real breakthrough appears to be in the plastic material that they have an exclusive on and automating some of the craft in getting the alignment right. you dont seem to place much stock in the materials but materials is about the only thing that have changed on 4 clip boots over the last few decades. Your recent experiments heating shells seem to indicate that you see this as something worth looking into. but your making conclusions using current polymers that may not even be designed for the temperatures you subject them to is not comparing apples and apples and perhaps you may be even degrading the boot and causing reliability issues.. I guess we will have to see if it is just pure marketing hype or is a great new product that offers performance fitting boots after a single visit using a system that provides retailers a simpler, easier and more reliable way to get better fitting shells to a wider market...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, I'm certainly hopeful the plastic holds up, the chemistry is interesting and obviously expensive so i'm in favor of it. As for it addressing canting issues, that will all be down to the technician, I know there will be a machine in Cham and the guys with it will be for me the best to get the best results out of it of those I know using the tooling. We have a cant plane, a more complex and precise version of that being used in this instance, so again, it offers me nothing I don't already have.
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a great new product that offers performance fitting boots after a single visit using a system that provides retailers a simpler, easier and more reliable way to get better fitting shells to a wider market...
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There in is our point, we achieve this already, in most cases, and can imagine that those that require further work, would too with this system, again for more money and for what is yet to be proved as a durable plastic. 
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You know it makes sense.
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I guess I am looking at this as bringing good fit to a wider retail audience who may not know of or have access to boutique quality shops like yourselves. You guys have worked through the issues so i can understand why it may not be of interest or need but if say a chain like s and r or Ellis get a few sites in the UK can cater for hard to fit people with wonky feet it can only be good thing for uk skiers. The likes of you and cem will get more work doing footbeds once these people with these tight Fischer boots start getting bone spurs
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skimottaret, It all helps and moves the industry forward, but can you imagine a Fischer only market? Will they sell their technology at a premium to other brands? So shops will still carry other boots, I don't know what else to add, we've thought long and hard about this product, spoken to industry people in chemicals, boot manufacturer and bootfitting, our conclusion not this year, maybe in the future if there is a demand and certainly never in exchange for the process we follow now.
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Solid balanced arguments and a reasoned conclusion , fatherhood must have kicked in
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I notice Ski Bartlett got this kit delivered today.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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tiffin, Did you see if they had helmets in stock yet, was going to pop down to have a look soon... I read that Fischer is only allowing retailers who have sold there boots for a year to sell this new system.
Interesting to read that SMALLZOOKEEPER, is now stocking Fischer for the coming year but "our conclusion not this year, maybe in the future " for the new system... funny that
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, haha, almost, the new boots are the best looking we've seen, the X 120 that is, that coupled with the fact we struggled this year to put together a decent range. We could have had the system, and chose not too. I don't think the 1 year claim is true, certainly not in France and we did carry Fischer for 2 years over the summers for the Scandie work we do. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, thought that would get a rise out of you
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Spoke to someone today who's had these made for him. V.experienced and capable skier and coach. For him this system has given him a fit like no other and has the advantage of being deliverable by merely mortal bootfitters. Of course we don't know yet if his experience will turn out to be the universal one. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, they refused it to a few pretty hi profile places who have been selling their boots for a long time..... wonder how the restrictive trading laws would come into play on this
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slikedges, I can expect alot of these boots sold early will get great reviews, people getting all bold and excited about being the first, spending a load of cash etc. I think it's unavoidable, people really want it to work, placebo/emperors new clothes effect? I don't think at this point of the winter and people having spent 700 euros anybody is going to complain. I'm not coming across as being too positive here but this is such a radical concept I think it's best from our point of view to be a little cynical and slightly over objective. As I say if it's flawless then we'll take one next year when we've been able to see the durability issues.
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FAQ
