 Poster: A snowHead
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Evening all,
Friend of mine reckons her left ski is always on the inside edge when on a drag lift or just before setting off finds she has to almost turn her foot outwards to get a flat ski and asked me if she should adjust the canting on her boots - not being qualified to give an answer other than "not on your nellie" without expert advice I said I'd ask around so if anyone can give me any info as to whether or not "self adjustment" is advisable it would be much appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I had the same sort of problem and it really restricted my skiing for a long, long time.
Some people think that it's just a technique issue and that you can fix it with lessons and practice. In my case it was fixed by a good boot fitter.
I've no idea who's a good fitter in Ireland, but I'm sure some snowHead will be able to point her in the right direction.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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briand6868, as Wags says a good boot fitter is probably the right route to identify the issue and solution. Canting adjustments are really for centering the leg in the boot rather than getting the ski flat.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hang on CEM is on his way
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CEM is a Cant.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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briand6868, there are a number of things which may or may not help
1 the footbed is the foundation, if this is not well made and allows the foot to pronate then the knee can drop inwards and set the ski on the inside edge
2 the shaft alignment of the boot (what most people call canting) needs to be set so that the leg is in the centre of the boot shaft, not to try and correct it
3 next is internal base board canting, this just fine tunes the footbed and balances it to you and the angle the boot manufacturer has put in there
4 true canting, either sole planning, intra boot wedges or binding cant strips depending on the boot/ski set up which will move the knee over to centre it
all this is reliant on the boot being a sensible fit in the first place, not having too much volume etc, there being enoughavailable space in the hip and knee joint and the muscles of the body not fighting with the stance...some people are just not cantable
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, CEM is THE man !!!!!
CEM, A bit more to it then turning an allan key then ...... I'll recommend she see your buddy in Belfast then as its only a couple of hours for her.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| CEM is a Cant. |
Ah... Sole!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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CEM,
I still struggle with the effective differences in outcome between cuff adjustment vs true canting.
Q. So just say I have one perfectly straight leg with my knee centered correctly over my foot and in the shell & my other leg is say knock kneed, if I adjusted the cuff on a flat surface in my normal feeling stance so now both legs are centered in the boot shafts, wouldn't my skis now run flat even though one of my knees maybe out of the ideal position.
Q. So again if you go the true canting route and now plane the sole of my dodgy legged boot (presumably the outside of it?) to move my knee out to correct it, won't it now feel odd like I'm now standing with more of my weight on the outside part of my foot? if so wouldn't I naturally want to move it back to the stance I've been walking on all these years putting the ski back on it's inside edge?
I appreciate there are all the other footbed issues, but I've had similar issues in the past as the Op & resorted to emergency cuff adjustments on the mountain to try to relieve the pain of fighting a ski that "felt" constantly on edge, not only did I "get lucky" and relieve the pain but also to my amazement some long standing skiing issues just completely disappeared. I'm not endorsing this method and appreciate I'm not going to know how good it could be until I finally come and visit you 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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briand6868,
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Friend of mine reckons her left ski is always on the inside edge when on a drag lift
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It was on a long hard packed drag my issues also really came to light!?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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gatecrasher, moving the cuff of the boot like that allows the ski to sit flat when you stand but does not resolve the leg alignment issue, if the knee drops to the inside it will continue to do so, and if you take a flat ski and drop the knee to the inside then it becomes on edge....
the problems come with people when you destabilize the ground.. not often you ski on a solid surface unless it is a word cup race piste in January (we use a rocker bottomed boot sole) if the knees and feet both tip in then simply tipping them out a bit (by the required amount) should resolve the problem.... But often we see the knees drop in but the feet are tipping out the way, for these people sometimes you need to tip the boot in, it will flatten the ski but not affect the knee, or sometimes you have to tip them out, move the knee and (hopefully) flatten the ski, it all depends on the amount of joint space motion available at the knee and the hip joints there are a number of different options depending on the individual
a well made footbed and a boot cuff correctly adjusted is in most cases all that is required, the SBS internal boot balancing just reinforces this and fine tunes it (not for everyone), the under boot canting /boot sole planning is not something that is needed for everyone or close to everyone!
a lot can be done by just working on the muscles of the pelvis and the abductors of the hip, if these muscles are strong then you can reduce the A framing and often the need for boot sole work by a large amount if not completely
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CEM,
Thanks, I find all this stuff really interesting, so what I'd done although not mechanically correct did effectively "patch" fix my initial problem of feeling like one ski was on edge all the time.
I guess where I'm going with this and gather from what you are saying is - for the average skier moving the knee to the ideal position is not necessary the first and always ultimate goal in the boot fitting process? my thoughts are is it really that important to be that mechanically correct for a few weeks a year when the rest of it we are walking around mechanically incorrect- and if by adjusting the cuff alone sorts out our basic skiing problems, is that not what really matters, mine accidentally fixed problems which I always put down to "more work required on my part" the feeling of the skis wanting to trip me up at speed at any given moment, being able to turn one way without thinking but struggling relatively to initiate turns the other!
Don't get me wrong I'm one of the worst for wanting to gain every advantage possible out of the equipment available and as mentioned will be looking to get a proper job done with you guys one day.
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You know it makes sense.
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gatecrasher, i spend a lot of time in ski boots and if i hadnt been aligned correctly would have been crippled by now.. pre alignment by CEM and Andi M i would get very sore knees and lower back problems. now the knee brace doesnt even get put on even though i am in boots 10x longer that i used to be...
as cem says strengthening exercises are very important as well but why not be set up correctly.
also dont forget delta angles on your bindings. that had more effect for me than lateral alignment
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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i spend a lot of time in ski boots and if i hadnt been aligned correctly would have
been crippled by now..
skimottaret, I totally agree with you, why not indeed when you virtually live in them but I'm referring to the average skier who spends a few weeks a year at best who doesn't spend a lot of time on technique or wants to spend a fortune on footbeds that may or may not have been made correctly but....may unknowingly benefit hugely to their holiday enjoyment by a quick tweek with an allen key, all the lessons in the world wouldn't have had such an instant effect as I witnessed, you probably won't believe this but I left the rest of our group in so much leg pain and decided to call it a day, took forever to get back to base but being as stubborn as I am I decided to borrow an allen key and experiment, within an hour I was back up with my group grinning from ear to ear! They couldn't believe the change in my new found confidence I'd gone from following the pack to pure freedom! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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gatecrasher, footbeds may be pricey but even for a holiday skier how much is a lost days skiing worth.... or days and weeks of being sore after every holiday.... not everyone needs footbeds but paying for a consulation to see what you need/dont need is well worth the cost imo. as you found it may only be a cuff adjustment but a few extra £'s for the full monty is small beer in terms of all your ski equipment costs let alone holiday money. great to hear another eureka story with regards to equipment set up and that you are back ripping it up !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I actually had a similar problem the first year I took up skiing. I didn't even know anything was wrong, I just thought it was part of skiing until my more seasoned friend pointed something out. It made a huge difference for me when I took it to the local ski shop. Finding a good guy/girl to fit the boots is crucial. I always leave it to the pros though to answer your question.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, I agree on the footbed issue, but again when your a relative novice to skiing and not so well informed it really depends on where you buy your gear, in my case it was my second pair of boots from let's say a rather large chain, I had posted footbeds made at the same time as the new boots, I did mention if they thought it was worth doing alignment checks, my impression was...not worth it unless your a racer type attitude! So in the end I spent about 350 pounds, I just as well have not bothered with the 80 pound footbeds and instead should have bought an allen key for a couple of quid for all the difference the footbeds had made. I suppose I'm lucky in a sense as I've experienced the difference a little adjustment can make so bring on the delta's etc.....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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briand6868, Friend yeah we beleive you 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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